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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Other ways to get the H4 source code
Thread: Other ways to get the H4 source code
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 19, 2018 11:32 AM

Other ways to get the H4 source code

So, Ubisoft is unlikely to give us the H4 source code without a huge public campaign, which we can probably as a small community not sustain. (maybe if some people asked for prerequisite to help in development of H8... but there is no H8 :V)

Also, Ubisoft is not a developer that has used much open source or free software.

But there are other ways we can get the H4 source code without need of them!

1- Get NWC employee with copy of the source code: An old employee may still have source code copies somewhere amongst their files.

2- Contact a friendly Ubi employee which will provide the source code to us: Maybe company policy won't give it to us, but some individual might be sympathetic or an H4 fan!

3- Hack Ubi

Ok, last one is probably not serious...

Anyways, some people may wonder about the legality of those two first actions. That really depends, I am not a copyright lawyer - but Ubi bought the Heroes franchise, not NWC, so maybe they don't really own the copyright to previous NWC code.

Even if they do for USA/France, copyright varies across countries:


Quote:
Keep in mind that any work first published before 1923 is considered in the public domain in the United States, regardless of the work's copyright status in its country of origin. Also, note that countries may change their copyright laws at any time, and these laws may or may not be retroactive to works previously in the public domain. Some countries may follow the rule of the shorter term for foreign works (notably the EU and Japan); others may not (e.g. the U.S.). And in general, a work may be in the public domain in one country but still be copyrighted in other countries.


So technically, in some places H4 code is in the public domain...

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Roman2211
Roman2211


Hired Hero
posted February 19, 2018 01:23 PM
Edited by Roman2211 at 13:30, 19 Feb 2018.

And also this Chinamen is know something about the source, he QQ:38874907, but I still could not contact him

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2018 01:39 PM
Edited by avatar at 13:40, 19 Feb 2018.

NimoStar said:

1- Get NWC employee with copy of the source code: An old employee may still have source code copies somewhere amongst their files.

It doesn't work with that way. Source code is property of Ubi now, former employees maybe have it, but they can't share with anyone without UBI permission.

Quote:

2- Contact a friendly Ubi employee which will provide the source code to us: Maybe company policy won't give it to us, but some individual might be sympathetic or an H4 fan!



Such action breakes almost any company policy and such person will be fired in blink of the eye.
____________

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 19, 2018 02:11 PM

1. They can and nobody will know. In fact we have had internal information and art shown to us by NWC computing staff, and Ubi never complained about their "property".

2. They can and nobody will know.

Also, we don't actually know if the source code is actually property of Ubi. Intellectual rights to the franchise (a "brand") are not the same as the rights of the source fcode of the game.


Also look at things like this:
Quote:
According to Motherboard, the intern who stole the code took it and distributed it to a small group of five friends in the iOS jailbreaking community in order to help them with their ongoing efforts to circumvent Apple’s locked down mobile operating system.


Source code leaks are somewhat common and relatively untrackable, though they sadly relate mostly to programs in development rather than old source code (see here) (and here) (and here too) since that is what attracts more interest.

You may agree or not but this would certainly help the modding community. In fact, it is much more morally unambiguous to share old and obsolete code for entertainment purposes, than to share new code for functionality purposes (though the free software movement, developers of GNU/Linux systems like the ones used in 90% of web servers, would likely cheer both)

Also, we have already "reverse engineered" parts of the code with my mod and Equilibris and the modding tools, which is explicitely forbidden by most "Terms of service" agreements and as such all mods here would be "illegal" for that matter.

And unlike Apple, Ubi isn't doing anything at all with the code.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2018 02:25 PM

NimoStar said:

You may agree or not but this would certainly help the modding community.


Of course I agree. But it's old game. And source code could be backuped on HD drivers, CDs and you know - time is devastating for such data storage. All could be lost. Gone with disk crashes or inreadable at old CDs. Did you have backuped 15-years-old files?
____________

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Roman2211
Roman2211


Hired Hero
posted February 19, 2018 03:30 PM
Edited by Roman2211 at 15:41, 19 Feb 2018.

To avatar: The fact, that the Chinese men is used graphics from H4 for own project in the 2004-th year, also apparently he owned the source code, and suddenly he had a full H4 SDK, how do you react to it? Why Chinamen can be accessed to source, and forbidden receive to we?

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2018 03:42 PM

Maybe it was stolen?
____________

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Roman2211
Roman2211


Hired Hero
posted February 19, 2018 04:08 PM
Edited by Roman2211 at 16:11, 19 Feb 2018.

avatar said:
Maybe it was stolen?

Maybe he worked in 3DO, how do I know? But the fact is, in its files there is a piece of the source code from H4

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted February 19, 2018 06:25 PM

We need HIV SC for nothing. First thing AI is horrible! For what this AI for us?
Best solution is VCMI for H4. Full rewritting. AI must be writed from 0.
The same adding new towns heroes units. Etc etc. New all!
In H3 original AI is still better than VCMI. But in H4 is no motivation to implementing AI.
In fact we need better battleground system. Hex or squres but not like now! And new battle units in H3 mode not isometric.
So there is big work that old failed code should be forget.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted February 20, 2018 12:17 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:18, 20 Feb 2018.

If we have the source code the AI can be improved very easily with subroutines.

That is the point. Can you write H4 again from scratch?
We coudn'0t even get a fully working resource editor...

VCMI for H3 has years in development with a larger H3 community and good programmers... and still many features don't work right like even multiplayer.

Also take into account H3 is mechanically simpler due to heroes not being in battle and spells and artifacts have simpler powers.

I don't want to wait until I am an old man...

H4 practically is already bug-free and feature-complete. It just isn't moddable. Source code would remedy that. Anything can be changed and recompiled. AI, number of towns, etc.

The chinese guy that released the creature-modification tool probably had access to some information we westerners don't have. In other topic, this doesn't necessarily mean they have leaked source code. They may just be better with dissassembly of binaries.

***

Also see this:

Quote:
End-of-life leaks by developers

Sometimes software developers themselves will leak their source code in an effort to prevent a software product from becoming abandonware after it has reached its end-of-life, allowing the community to continue development and support. Reasons for leaking instead of a proper release to public domain or as open source can include scattered or lost intellectual property rights. An example is the video game Falcon 4.0[30][31] which became available in 2000; another one is Dark Reign 2,[32][33] which was released by an anonymous former Pandemic Studios developer in 2011. Another notable example is an archive of Infocom's video games source code which appeared from an anonymous Infocom source and was archived by the Internet Archive in 2008.[34]

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kkfkkkfk
kkfkkkfk


Adventuring Hero
Nothing is impossible
posted February 20, 2018 02:46 AM

I don't see any information about the source code in China.
The company that makes the Simple Chinese version has gone bankrupt(Having
Chinese Copyright).They didn't even have time to make the WOW version
So we only have the Chinese version of TGS.
Later, the complete Chinese version was made by fans in 2009(Contain TGS&WOW&EQ mod)



Everything will disappear over time, but I still stick to making a better H4

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Roman2211
Roman2211


Hired Hero
posted February 20, 2018 05:45 AM
Edited by Roman2211 at 06:00, 20 Feb 2018.

kkfkkkfk said:
I don't see any information about the source code in China.
The company that makes the Simple Chinese version has gone bankrupt(Having Chinese Copyright).They didn't even have time to make the WOW version
So we only have the Chinese version of TGS.

Ñan also contact them chinese company Interwise is too release the WOW version at the end of 2003-th, you did not know?

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kkfkkkfk
kkfkkkfk


Adventuring Hero
Nothing is impossible
posted February 20, 2018 06:44 AM
Edited by kkfkkkfk at 06:44, 20 Feb 2018.

Roman2211 said:
kkfkkkfk said:
I don't see any information about the source code in China.
The company that makes the Simple Chinese version has gone bankrupt(Having Chinese Copyright).They didn't even have time to make the WOW version
So we only have the Chinese version of TGS.

Ñan also contact them chinese company Interwise is too release the WOW version at the end of 2003-th, you did not know?


Interwise is the Agency company in Taiwan,Not in Chinese Mainland;
Can you understand simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese?
In fact, the traditional version does not provide any help.Bad translations and fonts.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted February 20, 2018 10:51 AM

Ubi has not code for Armaggedons Blade!  Its not sure they have it for HIV. Source code still gives nothing. You only know what is where. It doesnt mean you can add automatically something new! And can repair AI. It needs still all code rewriting. All programmer tell you he prefer writing from 0 than rewriting. Its easiest. Yes it are years free work. With SC too...

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2018 06:06 PM

Baronus said:
Ubi has not code for Armaggedons Blade!  Its not sure they have it for HIV. Source code still gives nothing. You only know what is where. It doesnt mean you can add automatically something new! And can repair AI. It needs still all code rewriting. All programmer tell you he prefer writing from 0 than rewriting. Its easiest. Yes it are years free work. With SC too...


Still I'm pretty sure the programmers still somewhat active on the H4 forum, would still prefer to see the SC rather than digging deep into the codes themselves. At least that's the impression I have with the programmers I've talked to...
____________

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted February 20, 2018 07:26 PM

Better to have SC than digging. But now its not question ,,where it is" but how to add and how to repair. If we write it from 0 we can build SC... New SC is needed because failed AI because no way to add simply hero pic! Dont taking about units, cities!
And finding SC is still fiction...

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted February 22, 2018 01:57 PM
Edited by phe at 14:07, 22 Feb 2018.

NimoStar gets job in Ubi and reveals H4 code...(as leak or officially by convincing proper people or if getting high in rank by his own decision)

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted February 22, 2018 05:34 PM

Better is helping Kkf in game rewriting.

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Roman2211
Roman2211


Hired Hero
posted February 27, 2018 07:20 AM
Edited by Roman2211 at 07:25, 27 Feb 2018.

Hey, kkfkkkfk, translate it, please, he (38874907) added me to the black list or that???

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kkfkkkfk
kkfkkkfk


Adventuring Hero
Nothing is impossible
posted February 27, 2018 10:23 AM

Roman2211 said:
Hey, kkfkkkfk, translate it, please, he (38874907) added me to the black list or that???



NO black list.
It means waiting for the other party to confirm it.
Only if he agreed, he could have a chat.
I suggest using the international version of QQ.It supports English.
http://www.imqq.com/English1033.html

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