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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Identity Politics and Activism: What do you think of it?
Thread: Identity Politics and Activism: What do you think of it?
Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted April 17, 2018 07:20 AM

Identity Politics and Activism: What do you think of it?

Identity politics and activism looks at issues as they pertain to race, gender/sex, sexual orientation, culture, religion, language, class, and other demographic data, and the ways they affect communities, and also in relation to social justice (that is: the equitable treatment of citizens with a society).

Do you have a strong love or hate of identity politics? Do you fall into a middle ground? What do you think is good about it? What do you think is bad about it?
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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 17, 2018 10:38 AM

The alt-right notion that such issues are completely resolved, everything is just perfectly fine and the fuzz is only a bunch of SJWs and their lunacy is utter crap of course. Yet, it is also true that the post Cold War Left is kind of aimless and sometimes fixates on things in a really spoiled manner that can be called "oh well, talk about first world problems!" I mean, Snow White is harmful content because she doesnt give consent in her sleep, yet, the prince kisses her anyway, wtf? Are you kidding me.

I wouldn't call myself middle-ground, I would call myself an independent outsider who empathizes with the left wing much more often because I believe in progress, I hate how conservatives assume local values are universal, I have never been a nationalist, being proud of something depending on pure chance such as your place of birth always seemed dull to me. And when you look at politics, nationalism is just a way of pampering unsatisfied and insecure masses anyway. I am very anti-relgious, living in a Muslim country, you kind of have to be, religion stands in the way of so many better options which directly affects my life quality.

Although, I dont call myself middle-ground, I do think there has to be one. This internet-driven, post-truth, polarized environment where everybody only labels the others results in shallow people in both camps. Just look at the ignorance level of those alt-right youtubers and how witty they act despite it. (Ignorance + Sarcasm, very very bad idea). Or just look at how leftist protesters dont even let people talk in universities out of some overzelaous form of political correctness. The left used to be about intellectual awareness foremost and now, they dont even read, they rather act like members of some weird cult. But all of this still has to do with how the world is shaped by capitalism, new infrastructure and technologies, distribution of wealth on a global scale... Not "culture wars." So, the correct analysis and potential solutions will not come from conservatives who try to run away to traditional values in a brave new world. History never worked that way, the conservatives today defend values that progressives of the past stood up for, so will their grandchildren.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted April 17, 2018 11:42 AM

Is "identity politics" a term ever used by your journalists?

The make-up would be different but you would have urban Turks and Kurds, for example, as two groups who tend to vote differently and have a frazzled history. I don't know if "race" has as much meaning there as in the W Hemisphere where you have a diaspora of blacks.
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fred79
fred79


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posted April 17, 2018 12:05 PM
Edited by fred79 at 12:10, 17 Apr 2018.

on the one hand, i think identity is good when it comes to national culture(the good/decent aspects of it, anyway). on the other, i hate how people think they can make themselves not-so-insignificant by proclaiming loudly what they're all about; whatever it is they think identifies them(which usually changes frequently among the young). and i hate it even more, when what they're proclaiming loudly, is part of some fad that is trying to steamroll their way into the spotlight, and into everyone else's lives; through parades, marches, laws, or whatever. i think it's embarassing, and that it works towards dividing society even more than it already is; people placing that much emphasis in their own "special" personalities/lifestyles/race/whatever, that they feel the need to shove it in everyone's faces. it's annoying and egotistical.

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 17, 2018 02:29 PM

Blizzardboy said:
Is "identity politics" a term ever used by your journalists?

The make-up would be different but you would have urban Turks and Kurds, for example, as two groups who tend to vote differently and have a frazzled history. I don't know if "race" has as much meaning there as in the W Hemisphere where you have a diaspora of blacks.

Yes, mostly in a context criticizing the seperatist Kurds, like: "By sticking to this identity politics, the Kurds only serve the "divide and conquer" strategy of the imperial powers, anybody that is a constitutonal citizen is called a Turk, just like we call a Norman also French or a Sicilian also Italian. It does not refer to an ethnicity but a nation."

It is not that simple, of course. To publish in Kurdish was illegal up until the 90's, they were quite opressed after the 80 coup. And not all of them want the by gones to be by gones. Not to mention, after the collapse of the empire, there was even worse systematic assimilation to ethnically non-muslim citizens who mostly immigrated to Europe afterwards.

We deal with such things on a much more brutal level, for instance there is this new fear among the conservatives that so many of their own kids are turning out to be atheists or deists. (Both a reaction to AKP's polarizing Islamist politics and a natural outcome of internet and having better access to information and alternative cosmologies.) And our head of Diyanet (think of it like the Secretary of Religious Affairs) made a statement saying "deists or any other group denying the prophet are heretic perverts." This is an official statement by someone who gets paid by all of our taxes, so yes, identity politics come up.
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Trogdor
Trogdor


Legendary Hero
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posted April 17, 2018 05:56 PM

fred79 said:
on the one hand, i think identity is good when it comes to national culture(the good/decent aspects of it, anyway). on the other, i hate how people think they can make themselves not-so-insignificant by proclaiming loudly what they're all about; whatever it is they think identifies them(which usually changes frequently among the young). and i hate it even more, when what they're proclaiming loudly, is part of some fad that is trying to steamroll their way into the spotlight, and into everyone else's lives; through parades, marches, laws, or whatever. i think it's embarassing, and that it works towards dividing society even more than it already is; people placing that much emphasis in their own "special" personalities/lifestyles/race/whatever, that they feel the need to shove it in everyone's faces. it's annoying and egotistical.


The irony of this whole thing, I have found, is that the majority who claim to be against identity politics are the ones partaking in it. This is especially true of the alt-rightists, the hoteps, the street preachers (regardless of religious affiliation), the Maoists/Leninists, the anti-vaxxers, and pEtA.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted April 17, 2018 07:04 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 19:26, 17 Apr 2018.

Classic and alt right politicians don't like to use the word here, mostly because their angle towards identity politics is simply "we're Americans" and argue that Democats are responsible for stirring up national divisions through identity politics.

Democats get about 2/3rd of the Hispanic vote and over 80% of the black vote, so they like to put emphasis on black and Hispanic issues. Pretty much every minority favors Democrats and also women by a small margin. They suffer from lack of cohesion though. The Democratic National Convention is NOT organized the way the GOP is. Plus the left is more violent and prone towards destruction of property or assault at demonstrations on campuses and such.

I don't know how much people are following the data scandal with Facebook, but there is a lot of talk going on about how the tech industry disproportionately censors the right (which is true). Diamond & Silk are a pair of pro-Trump black women who got flagged and their page shut down as "a hate group" by moderators and Facebook is now back-pedaling since the news went viral.

Anyway, people are saying that the left fears people like Diamond & Silk because they rub against identity politics ("Two black women promoting Trump? Oh ****. Shut them up!) They want to maintain the image that black = anti-Trump / Republican.

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fred79
fred79


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posted April 17, 2018 07:52 PM

Trogdor said:
The irony of this whole thing, I have found, is that the majority who claim to be against identity politics are the ones partaking in it. This is especially true of the alt-rightists, the hoteps, the street preachers (regardless of religious affiliation), the Maoists/Leninists, the anti-vaxxers, and pEtA.


i had to google hoteps and anti-vaxxers(didn't know wtf a hotep was, and i wasn't aware that people against vaccinations actually have a name for them). i think it's especially true of anyone who identifies hardcore with any sort of affiliated group, and not just specific groups like you mentioned. sports fans, too, fall into the same category as all the rest; the most hardcore of them will harm fans of an enemy team. it's all utterly retarded.

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Minion
Minion


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posted April 17, 2018 07:53 PM
Edited by Minion at 19:57, 17 Apr 2018.

Blizzardboy said:

I don't know how much people are following the data scandal with Facebook, but there is a lot of talk going on about how the tech industry disproportionately censors the right (which is true). Diamond & Silk are a pair of pro-Trump black women who got flagged and their page shut down as "a hate group" by moderators and Facebook is now back-pedaling since the news went viral.



That is not true. That is what the right wing media has lied to it's audience. What happened was that they were earlier this month erroneously told by Facebook that their content had been deemed "unsafe for the community," which it wasn't. The Diamond & Silk page was never banned. It was never taken down. It was never censored.

In another words, fake news.

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Blizzardboy
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posted April 17, 2018 07:59 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 20:04, 17 Apr 2018.

I don't honestly know much about Diamond & Silk specifically but Zuckerberg himself acknowledged at the Senate hearing that it is an issue (Silicon Valley being strongly left) with right-wing groups getting flagged.

edit: I guess it had something to do with the notifications system.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 17, 2018 08:02 PM

What exactly happens when you get flagged on Facebook? Legally, I mean.
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Blizzardboy
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posted April 17, 2018 08:11 PM

I don't know if anything generally happens legally. 99% of ISIS content, for example, gets detected by A.I. tools and then can be removed.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 17, 2018 08:17 PM

No, I mean, Facebook is a private company, they can choose to flag ISIS or KKK, they can also choose to flag any group claiming Marlyin Monroe was sexier than Grace Kelly, on what basis the law operates to define neutral?
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Blizzardboy
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posted April 17, 2018 08:29 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 20:32, 17 Apr 2018.

It's a private company and yeah, it can theoretically do all kinds of stuff, including in ways that aren't obvious

It doesn't operate the same in every country depending on regulatory laws. If its status as 'neutral public platform' in the US was ever taken away I'm guessing that would affect its taxes and and a few other things. There isn't a lot in the US in terms of digital regulation and "hate speech" is more narrowly defined than with attitudes in Europe that are more authoritarian on the subject. Facebook can still take a more aggressive approach if it wants.

I'm guessing the age of minimal regulation won't last for much longer.
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fred79
fred79


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posted April 17, 2018 08:33 PM

there was a talented artist i found on deviantart from syria, and their account was taken down just because they were living in syria. d.a. got a lot of flak from users for that; not sure if they faced any legal issues over it, though. d.a. claimed it was regarding sanctions against syria, but i don't see them doing the same for other countries that had sanctions imposed on them.

i've been seeing a very clear and negative change in the internet and what's been going down on it, since the net neutrality bill was voted out by the fcc.

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Blizzardboy
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posted April 17, 2018 08:49 PM

And there's not any real alternative to Facebook. Zuckerberg argues that there are many social media platforms that overlap with each other, which is true, but Facebook still serves a unique function compared to Google or YouTube or Twitter.

It's a go-to platform for online communication the way phones are or landline phones were in the past, and it is operated and owned by a private company.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


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posted April 18, 2018 06:08 AM

I suppose thereís nothing wrong to assume that properties actually exist. However, somehow, that kind of reasoning usually creates space of anti-meaning, space thatís inevitably defined as a laboratory for defining which banana species is best suited for mass-cloning. I suppose that laboratory can be defined as source of identity currents that depends on providing the shock.

I suppose it doesnít have to be like that, a dare of making assumption that properties actually exist does not have to end in abovementioned laboratory. But somehow it does. I suppose that there must be enough units that will care enough, but not for the problem if properties actually exist, but for particular type of serialization that will accumulate enough anti-value, anti-value that can only be used for purchasing upper mentioned bananas that were created in anti-meaning laboratories. I suppose that mass-care-for-anti-values can be defined as source of the identity currents that depends on accepting the shock.

So, exploration of the question how to search for the middle ground, exploration of search itself, and exploration of the middle ground itself are in fact the ways of bringing back the meaning in the system, and consequently increasing the number of bananas that do not come from anti-meaning laboratories. I suppose that could serve as a transformational point for identity currents that depends on providing the shock.

Big question is how to lower accumulation of anti-value. I suppose by increasing the quality of education. But what is the quality of education? I would define quality of education as all processes that converts a higher-level forms of design into lower-level implementations in a manner of automated design processes that interprets an algorithmic description of a desired behavior and creates hardware that implements that behavior.
In other words, I think that if education process could enable that every individual can assemble his or her own robot, that would change the way serialization works right now. That would significantly lower the need of many for mass-care-for-anti-values and thusly the need for mass-accumulation of anti-value. I mean, what is growing up but the process of transformation of mass-care that can only create anti-value to individual single-user-care that can create real value.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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posted April 18, 2018 09:56 AM

All I understood was banana. Do you drink water sometimes?

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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posted April 19, 2018 12:21 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 12:23, 19 Apr 2018.

Well Zuckerberg might break down if he drinks too much water.
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