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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Spy poisoning: Russian diplomats expelled across US and Europe
Thread: Spy poisoning: Russian diplomats expelled across US and Europe This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 26, 2018 06:22 PM
Edited by artu at 18:26, 26 Mar 2018.

Spy poisoning: Russian diplomats expelled across US and Europe

So, it seems that Russia has assassinated a double agent of some sort and in response, 14 EU countries and the U.S. + a few more, are deporting Russian diplomats with a coordinated move. This seems like a way too heavy response for the death of a spy, though, there is probably something bigger beneath it.

Source


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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 26, 2018 06:34 PM

artu said:
it seems that Russia has assassinated a double agent of some sort

Article said:
The pair remain in a critical but stable condition in hospital.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 26, 2018 06:42 PM

Yes, that is a fair correction. I was too fast to link it, Turkish sources use the word "poisoned" and I just assumed the spy died.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 26, 2018 06:53 PM

Whoever organised the hit must have known, the trail goes directly back to Moscow. If it was Russia (which seems very very likely) they wanted to send a message. I can only speculate at this point that Russia is getting a bit bolder, and trying to exploit the seeming weakness of the west. Maybe it didn't expect the west to be unified enough to be able to do a big coordinated retaliation like they did.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted March 26, 2018 06:54 PM
Edited by blob2 at 23:34, 26 Mar 2018.

Spies die, it shouldn't be that big of a deal but...

...when you read into it, it's actually more gruesome. "They" used a special kind of poison to attack the pair, which is exceptionaly dangerous. Even a simple contact with the victim may kill another person. A policeman that was trying to help them (they were laying on a park bench), was also critically poisoned and hospitalized. Three kids that made contact with Skripal were also endangered and went through medical check-ups. The place around the attack spot has suffered in visitors nowadays: people are afraid to go to local shops so those are getting a drop in sales. When you think of the impact that this attack caused and might've caused, Russians really went overboard. Like they wanted to make this a big deal on purpose, but who knows to what end? A display of power perhaps?

I don't know what game Russia is playing at, and I wonder how long they will freely do what they want. Like the armed annexation of Crimea wasn't big enough...

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 26, 2018 07:01 PM
Edited by Maurice at 19:02, 26 Mar 2018.

The Russians may not have been the perpetrators, keep that in mind. In a high stakes game - and let's face it, that's the type of game currently being played out - motives and actors are obscured and diffuse for the general public.

It could easily have been a false flag, as there's no hard evidence pointing to Russia to begin with - but already everyone is pointing towards Russia. If countries around the world are so readily evicting Russian diplomats, do they have evidence that isn't revealed to the public? Even if they would love to see public opinion riling up against Russia?

Note: I am wary of Russia's motives, mind you and I don't trust the Russian government in the slightest ... but neither do I trust the government of the US or any of the allies on either side. Heck, I don't even trust my own government .

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 26, 2018 07:09 PM

artu said:
Yes, that is a fair correction. I was too fast to link it, Turkish sources use the word "poisoned" and I just assumed the spy died.


Which is not an outlandish assumption by any stretch. I read the article under that impression and was surprised to see otherwise. You'd think that in 2018, if a global power like Russia wanted someone dead, they could achieve it without fail. The fact that they ended up in hospital seems a bit suspicious to me.

At any rate, the only thing I'm taking away from the article is that the tensions between the West and Russia are escalating.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 26, 2018 07:31 PM

That whole thing is a typical witch hunt. Even if the Russians did it - which would be one of the most normal things in the world of intelligence for literally every country on this planet, especially if the guy was a threat to their national security - the entire story is purposefully overblown to justify pointing fingers and formalizing some anti-Russian measures. There are no hard evidences, yet the EU + the US as preparing a verdict - that alone is enough to tell what is the real purpose. Of course the public will never know who's the real perpetrator, unless there is some massive information leak from somewhere, but that's not really important in this case.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted March 26, 2018 07:51 PM
Edited by blob2 at 23:35, 26 Mar 2018.

True, it might not be Russia. It might very well be Illumanti at work for all I care. Judging by their recent exploits however, I'm not sure there's a line they still need to cross. It's not only Crimea, but there are other regions which they annexed, openly or not.

I think they are simply trying to "test the waters". Their exploits are however "daring", and it does not seem they have anything to be afraid of so far. I only hope Poland is not on their "to do" list... at least not in the near future (though some say we already have russian agents destabilizing our politics, and our army was recently "reformed" in such a way that you might think it's actually sabotage :/).

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 26, 2018 07:54 PM

Yeah, that annexation of Kremlin was really nasty. They even put their entire government there, the outrage!

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted March 26, 2018 08:00 PM

Yeah, nothing to see here...


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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted March 26, 2018 08:06 PM

in my opinion stormy trump is a nice lad who would not hurt a fart but so is our old mate Big Putin, also Puccini has the pictures of trump's pet cockerel for the blackmail so it is vely sad to see such nice lads quibbling cheers lol
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 26, 2018 08:16 PM

Snowflakes propaganda. When it does not go their way, its Russia then we don't even discuss or bring proofs, we punish first and play the offended. I am ashamed of our totalitarian and narrow minded "democracies".

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 26, 2018 08:30 PM

In which way do you use the word totalitarian? Because usually, you claim the opposite, you say "they are the best democracies, lands of opportunity if you work hard and critics should look at all the other countries before pointing fingers."
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted March 26, 2018 08:48 PM

for sure not, I agree that those cucks are too politically correct and forgot their place, let a SJWs do the graft and find the solid proof before we are quick to make a big bum out of the Russia cheers lol
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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pizza Nazi
posted March 26, 2018 09:03 PM

Dunno, it seems like an excuse for some diplomatic posturing, it's not like the US has been trying to find an excuse to isolate Russia in the last years.
I can't say I would be surprised if it turned out to be a false flag, considering the precedents.

One thing's for sure, if it was indeed Russia, then that guy must have known something too important to let him reveal everything to those who are, quite effectively, hostile entities.

@Sal and artu
Please refer to my signature for a correct definition of a western democracy.
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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted March 26, 2018 09:14 PM

Zenofex said:
That whole thing is a typical witch hunt. Even if the Russians did it - which would be one of the most normal things in the world of intelligence for literally every country on this planet, especially if the guy was a threat to their national security - the entire story is purposefully overblown to justify pointing fingers and formalizing some anti-Russian measures. There are no hard evidences, yet the EU + the US as preparing a verdict - that alone is enough to tell what is the real purpose. Of course the public will never know who's the real perpetrator, unless there is some massive information leak from somewhere, but that's not really important in this case.


pretty much this. End of discussion.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 26, 2018 09:31 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:52, 26 Mar 2018.

artu said:
In which way do you use the word totalitarian?


The information is kept under totalitarian rules, I see every day of the week, in every newspaper, a negative article about Putin. Since Trump won that's it.

When Putin won with 73% or so, Macron butt-hurt decided is not appropriate to congratulate him because Syrian, Trump and poisoned spy affairs, so he abstained. All the medias concluded he is brave by doing so. He ignored the bases or international protocol, shaming a whole nation and despise another great one, while on none of those affairs, there is not even one conclusive proof, only allegations.  

Washington post about Putin election. This is what we read everyday. And wonder why young people now think Russia is evil.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted March 26, 2018 10:00 PM

Russia does not have fair elections by any stretch of the imagination, it brutally murders journalists, Putins political opponents and yes also defected spies. Yet you choose to use words like "totalitarian" to describe Europe, pffff, we surely live on different planets.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 26, 2018 10:53 PM

Well, Russia is not evil, of course. But Putin is authoritarian, just like Turkey is not evil but Erdogan is authoritarian. However, there are two sides to that coin, in the world of reelpolitik, the Western democracies really don't care about the democratic progress of other countries who jumped on the train on a latter station. And there are many cases where they push such leaders into a corner that they even become more authoritarian. For instance, the U.S. certainly backed up the recent coup attempt by Gülen movement here, which, if succeded, could have been the worst thing ever. So now, Erdogan has zero trust in his "NATO allies" and even when they justifiably accuse him of turning into a dictator, he just gives them the finger. Because he knows it is not a principle that they care about, they are just exploiting the principle and had the interests been in line, they wouldn't have much problem with his authoritarianism. And that is the problem with neo-globalism; on the surface, it preaches all these values such as liberty, fair elections, progress, which nobody on their right mind would object to. But the real dynamic is sheer jungle capitalism and anybody would back up anybody as long it is more profitable. So the criticism of violating democratic principles loses its weight. When Putin hears such a thing, he probably reacts "oh, please, like those wolves in Washington give a crap about my people, I know what's better for them." The problem about authoritarian regimes is, nobody knows what's best for everybody and nobody has the right to claim such a thing, but he is not wrong about the "oh, please" part and in countries like his, if you lose your grip on power, then it's very probable that you'll get screwed by the very same West preaching you democracy also. So the cycle keeps on.
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