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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: what is heroes 5.5??
Thread: what is heroes 5.5??
monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2018 12:37 AM
Edited by monere at 00:38, 01 Sep 2018.

what is heroes 5.5??

1) Must I have the original Heroes 5 in order to play the latest version?

2) Which is the latest version and where can I get it?

3) I keep seeing mentions of Heroes 5.5 but I don't know what that is. Can someone give a link or something to see what the deal with this 5.5 version is?

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 01, 2018 12:43 AM

I guess this thread should enlighten you.
____________
He JVC taught us how to use skeletons. -Ghost

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2018 01:06 AM

what is heroes 5.5??

Galaad said:
I guess this thread should enlighten you.


Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Thanks!

Based on the description there's quite a few things included with this version. I thought it was just a patch that fixes bugs and other minor stuff

Cheers!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 01, 2018 09:22 PM

A few? Everything changed.
____________
So you're saying.. the dead are rising from their graves?
Excellent! I need some target practice!

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 02, 2018 12:25 AM
Edited by monere at 00:32, 02 Sep 2018.

what is heroes 5.5??

Elvin said:
A few? Everything changed.


Maybe. I wouldn't know because I don't remember too much from the last time I've played Heroes 5 (which is probably a decade ago, or so). The game has looked promising when it had come around, but... it's still WAY behind H3 in my opinion.

I've gotten 5.5 yesterday and been playing it ever since and there's still many bad things about it, like for example...

1) from a visual point of view, my god! My head and eyes literally start hurting me within 30-40 minutes of playing. Even now when I'm typing this I'm all dizzy and headache-y from all of the pixel hunting I'm doing on the adventure map trying to find any unvisited map objects. I'm playing Inferno and believe me that, even though it's taken me minutes of carefully scouting my native terrain (which is not even a big chunk of the map, but rather 15%, more or less, of an XL map) I think I've still missed some visitable objects. For example, I'm sure I might have missed some graves which are so freaking small and nearly close to the terrain's colour that it's easy to miss. And so are the level 1 magic shrines. Not only that, but the heroes, too. I literally looked for one of my heroes for 40, maybe 50 seconds when I wanted to give him some creatures with another hero. I knew the rough location of where I've left him, I just couldn't see him for the life of me. And on top of all these the font is atrocious, too. I can barely see what it's saying in that semi-transparent, grey, cursive font, especially when the background is so striking red/brown like it's the case with Inferno. I'm telling you, 30 minutes of playing the game and you're getting terrible headaches.

2) what the hell is doing estates under logistics??????????

3) artifacts.... so few, and so bad. Even the sets, which I'm assuming are replacing the relics from Heroes 3: my god! You get to equip all 8 items (EIGHT ITEMS for God's sake, nearly your entire inventory) of a set and all you get is.... 12 spell power. Really??? For wasting 8 slots of my inventory I would expect at the very minimum to get effects similar to what Armor of the Damned does in Heroes 3, and actually better effects than those still, since this is a newer game of heroes.

Not only that, but the artifacts themselves are pretty weak. I rarely find one that gives +1 or +2 to all stats (including morale and luck, too), although... on a second thought, I still haven't found one that does that.

4) game difficulties are a joke. I've played randomly generated map (the 5P-STD-XL (All) template) on Heroic with normal resources and strong monsters, and at the end of month 2 I was already having upgraded devils, pit lords and succubi while the neutral creeps on the adventure map were still being horde of skeleton archers, and throng of master gremlins. I cruised through those neutrals even with quick combat. It's true that after getting out of my zone and venturing into the treasury zone the mobster have become noticeably stronger (throng of djinns guarding a measly tree of knowledge), but even so it's still pretty weak. In Heroes 3, on a good template, I can barely make it out of my zone in month 3 on 200% difficulty, and only because I've managed to build my level 7 dwelling a week or 2 prior to that, pile up some archers, and maybe a pack or so of level 6 creatures. In Heroes 5 I was having all of my army upgraded at the end of month 2... well, all of the army I was interested in carrying with me anyway, cause I didn't bother too much with upgrading imps and nightmares.

Anyway, I realize that I could get a better challenge if I play on "impossible" and increase the strength of the monsters even further (I think there are 2 more options after "strong", but I don't remember), but even so.... the lack of powerful and unique artifacts, as well as the striking graphics that tire the eye and makes you miss map objects easily are a HUGE letdown for me. I will probably continue playing cause I wanna try the other factions, too, especially since I don't remember to have ever played Stronghold and Fortress factions, too much (or at all), but... honesty, Heroes 3 is by far the best in the series. Can't even compare the 2

The best thing, probably, about H5 is the skillwheel. The skills in this game are indeed better and more interesting than in H3, but it's too little from a game that's supposedly better than the previous versions because it's newer.

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 03, 2018 08:47 AM
Edited by dredknight at 08:49, 03 Sep 2018.

Hey @monere,

Here are some clarifications to your questions.

1) visual pleasure is subjective so nothing to add here.

2) Estates does not fit much anywhere as most of the skills are magic or might oriented. The only Misc skills are Logstics, Luck and Enlightenment so there it goes. I believe getting to know how the principle MMh55 skill wheel design is made will give a better idea.

3) MMH5.5 artifacts cannot be compared with Heroes 3 artifacts. The flow of the game is different also the strength of the skills is different. Heroes 3 system is heavily tilted towards the Might. It is so abused that easily after getting a few levels and 1-2 offensive artifacts the player can freely roam most part of the map without thinking too much for the battles. H3 and also suffers from major game mechanic flaws (for example - spell system is complete trash). I believe the skill system design link describes this too but you can read this article for more flavour.

4) Regarding game difficulties there are 2 type of them.
- Game difficulty (the one you use) mainly makes the AI a bit stronger and reduces the starting resources.
- Monster strength - this one is set when a map is generated via the editor. You can find more about how to do this here.

The real difficulty depends on combination of both values above. If you want really tough experience I would suggest to use the following values:
- monster strength very strong
- game difficulty impossible
- AI intent is set to defensive (and you play against multiple AIs).

Cheers!
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2018 09:30 AM
Edited by monere at 09:34, 03 Sep 2018.

what is heroes 5.5??

Hey @dredknight! Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. But first, there's a few things I need to mention, so I'll quote-reply them below

dredknight said:
visual pleasure is subjective so nothing to add here.


I agree

dredknight said:
MMH5.5 artifacts cannot be compared with Heroes 3 artifacts. The flow of the game is different also the strength of the skills is different


I don't understand the bolded part. What is that "flow" all about?? Also, do you really mean to tell me that an artifact that gives +2 to all stats is not preferable to dull +1 luck, or +30% fire resistance artifacts? Cause I'm not buying that.

dredknight said:
Regarding game difficulties there are 2 type of them...


I eventually figured it out... sort of... For example, yesterday I have started another random map and played as Fortress, and set the game difficulty to Heroic and monster strength to "very strong". Frankly, I'm very pleased with monster strength cause they gave me a real challenge. I'm displeased with the snow AI, however, as I've never liked being put pressure on, especially by retarded AIs. Which means I just freaking want to be left alone to explore the map at my own pace, and clear the entire map out, and only then engage the AI if I so choose to. Well, yesterday I rage quit immediately after getting attacked by the AI just as I got my nose out into the interesting zone (I think it's called the treasury zone, or something... it's full of tough monsters, and some artifacts).

So anyway, as I was saying, the monster strength was Ok, and the game difficulty (heroic) was also OK (I think I could have survived / defeated the AI that's attacked me), but I get triggered so fast and so badly by aggressive AIs that I ALWAYS rage quit ANY game that does it. I'm more of an explorer / daydreamer type of guy, so I'd like to be left alone to do my own thing, damn it!. So, do you have any tips on how to set the AI to even not get out of the castle if possible, but still be a tough opponent to defeat when I, PERSONALLY, engage him? Please tell cause it will make the game enjoyable for me, despite of the many flaws.

dredknight said:
AI intent is set to defensive (and you play against multiple AIs)


I may have skipped this bit somehow, but I could swear I haven't seen it anywhere when I generated random maps with the in-game RMG editor. Care to explain what the defensive part of the AI is all about, and how to set it? It might just be what I'm looking for

Cheers mate!

EDIT: do you, by chance, happen to know how to use runes? I can see the runes in my spellbook, and I have the resources for them, too, I just couldn't figure out how to use them cause they're always greyed out, no matter the state of the battle I'm in. I was playing as Uland (the Thane specialist) if that matters...

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 03, 2018 10:35 AM

dredknight said:

1) visual pleasure is subjective so nothing to add here.



Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's more criticizing the 3D here, coming from H3 that's a common grip with H5 in general.
____________
He JVC taught us how to use skeletons. -Ghost

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2018 10:43 AM
Edited by monere at 10:45, 03 Sep 2018.

Galaad said:
dredknight said:

1) visual pleasure is subjective so nothing to add here.



Maybe I'm wrong but I think he's more criticizing the 3D here, coming from H3 that's a common grip with H5 in general.


Initially, I have said that 3D bothers me, but... on a second thought I have nothing against 3D as I have against the small, same-colour objects as the terrain (I'm referring to the graves and level 1 shrines mainly, but I'm sure there's other small objects, too). Those things are too hard to spot, and you'd have to really stare carefully at the screen to see them. I mean, there are lots of HUGE buildings in Heroes 5, so it's possible to make all map objects decently big to spot them... also reduce the intensity of the colours (saturation??) so as not to be so striking on the eye.

These are the things that bother me the most, along with the cursive font which makes it hard to read when combined with the font size (which is also small), as well as the semi-transparent grey/light yellow colours of the same font.

Yeah, these are my main problems with the game, not necessarily the 3D graphics

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted September 03, 2018 11:22 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:23, 03 Sep 2018.

The flow is the speed the game progresses through different phases as well the number of phases. Very roughly you can divide the game in 3 phases - early, mid and late (FYI in heroes 3 is just early and late).
- early game - tough battles for scarce resource piles and mines. This is where you are getting your economy up and  ramping on dwelling production.
- mid game - Expanding your kingdom by exploring zones where your main focus is getting more castles and further improving your economy, geting high tier map dwellings. You need those stuff to get dwelling upgrades and higher production, get magic guild levels or hire all creatures in the castle. in MMH55 every resource is precious including gold so you are never able to do everything at once. This is the place where hero development is formed and creature upgrades are chosen. Both of those stuff form your late game strategy.
- Late game - This only happens on bigger maps where you have time to develop. Usually around month 4. Towns are nearly fully built your hero has all 7 stacks. Besides owning your enemy here you focus on your main hero getting high value treasury sites as they can bring valuable artifacts (or additional troops). Fighting efficiency is a key factor here, you want to lose as less troops as possible.
Very often secondary heroes are added on the map with some army to claim neutral castles.
Economy wise all resources are converted in troops. Where if economy can support it, get more castles and build more dwellings to get more troops. The final fight (in PvP or vs AI) is about the numbers and the synergy between your hero build, creature upgrades and tactical utilization.


Runes are used on creature turns, not hero turns. When you have runes in spellbook and enter battle and it is one of your creature turns, take a look a little above the ATB bar. There you will notice a row with all the runes. You can use only the one that you have resources to spend for.

If you set the AI to defensive it will not hunt for you. You can do this when starting the game. When the AI is set in the lobby set its starting bonus to Defensive (shield).

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2018 11:38 AM

Thanks dude!

Gonna go right away and play another game and I'll create a HUGE map and set the AI to defensive so that it stays the f*ck in his own square and let me do my thing (explore the map freely and build my armies at my own pace) and then I'll show that cocky AI who is better (just kidding, it is still better than me lol)

Thanks for the tips and for clarifying the part with the flow. I see now what you've meant.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted September 03, 2018 11:43 AM

monere said:
I will probably continue playing cause I wanna try the other factions, too, especially since I don't remember to have ever played Stronghold and Fortress factions, too much (or at all), but... honesty, Heroes 3 is by far the best in the series. Can't even compare the 2

The best thing, probably, about H5 is the skillwheel. The skills in this game are indeed better and more interesting than in H3, but it's too little from a game that's supposedly better than the previous versions because it's newer.


I personally don't recommend playing the Fortress faction. At first I was glad they are making a dwarven town, but it's so bland regarding the variety in units that it's sad.

I agree with you about the skillwheel for H5. That's one thing they got right.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2018 11:52 AM

Drakon-Deus said:
monere said:
I personally don't recommend playing the Fortress faction. At first I was glad they are making a dwarven town, but it's so bland regarding the variety in units that it's sad.

I agree with you about the skillwheel for H5. That's one thing they got right.



Well, you always have to try things once

Besides, I have already played Fortress yesterday, and I'm not really displeased with them. I actually like the Thanes and the bear riders, and... I don't think I even know what the brawlers do cause I never used them, but anyway, the thanes and bear riders are fun, and I can't say that about any creatures in the heaven town. Been playing heroes (3, 4, 5 and occasionally 6, too) for years and I have never felt compelled to even try the Castle / Life / Heaven factions. I might like them, I don't know, it's just that I'm feeling an impulse to skip them every time I chose my starting faction

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted September 03, 2018 11:54 AM

It's good if you can find things to enjoy about the town. For me it didn't work.

And yes, I find Haven boring as well.


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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2018 12:01 PM
Edited by monere at 12:02, 03 Sep 2018.

Drakon-Deus said:
It's good if you can find things to enjoy about the town. For me it didn't work.

And yes, I find Haven boring as well.




That's the beauty of having options (ie. many factions to choose from): you will always get something to your liking... theoretically

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