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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: What do you think of Tarnum?
Thread: What do you think of Tarnum? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 29, 2019 02:23 PM

What do you think of Tarnum?

Anyone remember HoMM chronicles? I sure do. Anyone remember's the immortal barbarian to whom Conan pales in comparison? I sure as heck do. But the question is, does the community remember him? If so, what do you think of him and his role and achievements in the chronicles?

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted January 29, 2019 03:40 PM

there was no Tarnum, no destruction of Erathia, no Ashan, no Ubisoft… it was just a nightmare…

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Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 29, 2019 04:09 PM

phe said:
there was no Tarnum, no destruction of Erathia, no Ashan, no Ubisoft… it was just a nightmare…


oof, seems like it took a toll on someone.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 29, 2019 04:18 PM

Wasted potential. I loved him in Warlords of Wastelands, first non-black/white character in HoMM3, with some decent writing to back up. But it went downhill from there, with Tarnum becoming more and more of a goody two-shoe with no real character, just another [hero-good_template] shell. I still have to play clash of the dragons/sword of frost, though, so maybe it gets better there.

Though I did like his antics in Masters of Elements.


What I dislike is that he doesn't change gradually, he just goes from full psycho to full kitten lover. Nothing in between. I'd be so much better if he actually had moments of his dark insanity back at times, which would end with necks broken and allies betrayed. Characters that go from one side of a spectrum to another are not very believable and they certainly don't need 8 games devoted to them; two would suffice.
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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted January 29, 2019 04:29 PM

now I understand why I never played it despite having CD with it...it should never has happened...

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Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 29, 2019 04:38 PM

Doomforge said:
Wasted potential. I loved him in Warlords of Wastelands, first non-black/white character in HoMM3, with some decent writing to back up. But it went downhill from there, with Tarnum becoming more and more of a goody two-shoe with no real character, just another [hero-good_template] shell. I still have to play clash of the dragons/sword of frost, though, so maybe it gets better there.

Though I did like his antics in Masters of Elements.


What I dislike is that he doesn't change gradually, he just goes from full psycho to full kitten lover. Nothing in between. I'd be so much better if he actually had moments of his dark insanity back at times, which would end with necks broken and allies betrayed. Characters that go from one side of a spectrum to another are not very believable and they certainly don't need 8 games devoted to them; two would suffice.


I personlly started from the Clash of Dragons but had the chance to play every other expansion but didn't quite get through Revolt of the Beast Master. I mean there are some good written parts after he become immortal, but I really lacked good character development either. Also as you go along you would think that his impact on the whole world might be felt, but no. It's same old same old even when he conquered THE ENTIRE UNDERWORLD INCLUDING THE HELL ITSELF or when he had beaten a God in a completely different planet.

Overall, with a bit more work and imrpovement of writing, this wouuld end up a good series of games or some animated series.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 29, 2019 06:24 PM

You do realise that the games are supposed to be played in order, right? Also, there's quite a lot of time between the games. In the very first game, Bracada and Erathia don't even exist. He helps form both nations, however and also helps with the formation of Tatalia, if I remember correctly. And in the very end, it's Tarnum who battles Gelu, causing the destruction of the planet.

As such, he's pretty much involved in key-critical moments, through the eons and helps shape the world as well as destroy it in the end.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 29, 2019 07:09 PM

Quote:
And in the very end, it's Tarnum who battles Gelu, causing the destruction of the planet.

Ummm no, it's not. That was Kilgor as seen in the HoMM 4 opening cinematic.
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted January 29, 2019 08:00 PM

Tarnum rocks, I'll send you verriker to tell you more about 'im.
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Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 29, 2019 09:53 PM

Maurice said:
You do realise that the games are supposed to be played in order, right? Also, there's quite a lot of time between the games. In the very first game, Bracada and Erathia don't even exist. He helps form both nations, however and also helps with the formation of Tatalia, if I remember correctly. And in the very end, it's Tarnum who battles Gelu, causing the destruction of the planet.

As such, he's pretty much involved in key-critical moments, through the eons and helps shape the world as well as destroy it in the end.


I know how the story goes but the chronology got messed up in the end. I know some of his achievements which shaped the political world, but what I haven't noticed is that he would develop as a character and transfer that to the other part. Because by then we are kind of back to point 1.

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Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 29, 2019 09:55 PM

AlHazin said:
Tarnum rocks, I'll send you verriker to tell you more about 'im.


Well what are you waiting for, man? Send it right away and tell me more. I'm curious

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 29, 2019 10:10 PM
Edited by Maurice at 22:11, 29 Jan 2019.

Geny said:
Quote:
And in the very end, it's Tarnum who battles Gelu, causing the destruction of the planet.

Ummm no, it's not. That was Kilgor as seen in the HoMM 4 opening cinematic.


Right, I forgot. I have hardly touched H4 .
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 30, 2019 12:21 AM

Ranger_Gelu said:
Well what are you waiting for, man? Send it right away and tell me more. I'm curious


wassuuuup lol

Tarnum's a great character, whenever I think of sword and sorcery pulp fiction he's one of the first ones who spring to mind lol

although it may have been nice to see Tarnum revert into a full on evil ******* at times beyond the first campaign, we must bear in mind they were trying to sell a very accessible set of campaigns to present the factions and draw people in, whereas a story where you play as somebody who is dipping in and out of psychopathy too much would be a bit far-fetched and not on those cards lol

actually the goody two shoes is a great hamartia for him, if he had the guts to revert into an ******* he could have easily saved the world yet instead let it be blown, that is a tragedy of his character lol

bear in mind that the point of Tarnum is that actions speak louder than words, it is much more about repenting for his evil actions than actually changing his nature, or else he would not be given a chance,
Tarnum (like Che Guevara and Putin) was just some chill young shepherd, never really an ******* by nature so much as a traumatised, caged animal going overkill on his lifelong oppressors, he already got that revenge out of his system and it makes sense in an adult narrative that he can move beyond this insane rage after a few years to take on his labours of Hercules in new environments, rather than dwell on it as an ******* for a million years lol
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 30, 2019 07:07 AM
Edited by Elvin at 07:18, 30 Jan 2019.

I quite liked the guy. I too started with clash of dragons so my initial image of him was a little mellow The first chapter was a good story and despite the occasional cheesiness or inconsistency, I enjoyed all of them. I mean I'm pretty sure that conquest of the underworld comes before masters of the elements(due to the decades that had passed in Antagarich) but nothing suggests that he hates magic in the former while he acts like a total barbarian in the latter. I liked the nightmares he faced in conquest, the relationships he developed along the way and the challenge of adapting his mentality towards magic, all the while indulging in his barbarian attitude. By revolts and clash he seems a rather chill guy, making his sword of frost madness antics all the more amusing. Disappointing ending though. He did have a soft spot for his people but that was a liitle idealistic.

Would have overall preferred a more gradual change even if there are time skips in between.
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Ranger_Gelu
Ranger_Gelu


Adventuring Hero
Looking for Armageddon's Blade
posted January 30, 2019 06:58 PM

Elvin said:


Would have overall preferred a more gradual change even if there are time skips in between.


Do you know how long the timeskips take?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 30, 2019 07:57 PM

They should vary a fair bit. I mean several of them span the times from before Erathia was formed, up till heroes 4.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 30, 2019 08:17 PM

Ranger_Gelu said:
Do you know how long the timeskips take?


the story is around a thousand years, from Warlord of the Wasteland to Heroes 4 lol

there are few specific years but the Conquest of the Underworld is some decades after the first one, then the Beastmaster Revolt, the Masters and World Tree/Moon are all various centuries after that, then the last two + H4 are about 1000 years after the first one lol
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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted January 30, 2019 10:31 PM bonus applied by Maurice on 31 Jan 2019.

verriker said:
there are few specific years but the Conquest of the Underworld is some decades after the first one, then the Beastmaster Revolt, the Masters and World Tree/Moon are all various centuries after that, then the last two + H4 are about 1000 years after the first one lol


verriker said:
do not pay any attention to a fan chronology for they are mere fan fiction, here is a correct chronology of the Chronicles,

Quote:
Warlords of the Wasteland
Conquest of the Underworld

????????????????????

(Armageddon's Blade)
Clash of the Dragons
The Sword of Frost
(Heroes 4)


the only other fact to remember, is that The World Tree comes before The Fiery Moon, for else all bets are off cheers



___________________________________


Jennifer Bullard said:
The Heroes Chronicles were meant to be more stand-alone than anything. Honestly, it was marketing who had the greatest hand in driving the products. We were slipping on Heroes IV and they wanted our fan base to have more maps to play. So I was asked to create 8 campaigns that could stand alone and be played in any order, without any reference to each other or the other products in development. So we created a series of titles that could do just that. Each original story & maps was written by one level designer and then I cleaned and polished them until ship. Each one was supposed to take place in 'the distant past' and we didn't create a specific order to their events.




As for so called "fan fiction", there some hints, which games take place after which ones and how long Tantrum's story take place:

HoMMIV said:
"Some call me the Immortal Hero," Tarnum explained.  The Ancestors have kept him alive all this time so he could redeem himself for the horrible crimes of his distant past.

The rest of Tarnum's story is much too long for me to chronicle here, but it explained many things about my foster father, about his incredible skill and vast knowledge.  Just know that for a long time after that night, I felt betrayed because Tarnum hadn't shared this secret with me, his son.  I never let him know how I felt, even when he left a few months later to seek a new destiny.

"There is at least one historian recording my activities," Tarnum interrupted the uncomfortable silence that fell at the end of his tale.  "Probably more."

"How can the Ancestors deny you Paradise now?  You are the greatest man I have ever known."

Placing his hand on my shoulder, Tarnum said, "Thank you!  Coming from you, Waerjak, that makes me proud."

"But why do they still punish you?" I asked.

"They're not punishing me.  In fact, everything you have done here has freed me from my debt.  For my part in raising you, the Ancestors have offered me Paradise, but I turned them down."

After more than a thousand years of life, why would Tarnum refuse that which he had been fighting for?


So Tarnum lived for more than 1000 years. We don't know if this was whole his life or "only" after he became Immortal Hero but as ca. 1200 years ago Enroth was high advanced civilization with replicators (Heavenly Forges), star gates (MM7) and atomic weapons (Day of Fire), which fall into barbarism in first age after the Silence (fall of Colonial Governship and silence/break down of last of Forges in 113 AS), it is very unlikely that barbarian tribes reign Southern Antagarich when Governor ruled the planet. And before Tarnum, before Bracaduun Empire, there was Jarg the Conqueror, who was nearly forgotten in times of Tarnum rise to power:

Warriors of the Wasteland said:
Your people weren't always the slaves of the Empire of Bracaduun.  Long ago, one of the ancestors of your own clan, a great warrior named Jarg, formed a massive Horde and conquered all the lands from ocean to ocean - including Bracaduun

(...)

Sitting alone last night, your pondered the tragic loss of your people's history.  You haven't been able to find a single person who knows the tale of Jarg and his Horde.

(...)

You sit with the four bards one night, listening to their accounts of Jarg and how he conquered every land between the two oceans.  His heroic deeds were numerous. "Jarg lived so long ago," you say, "what of the Barbarian Kings that came after him?" The bards exchanged a knowing glance, then the eldest says, "Jarg was the last.  He ruled well into his old age, but when he died his kingdom crumbled.  His sons fought each other for control and ended up too weak to stand up to the Wizards who formed Bracaduun."



Tarnum is killed in epilogue of first Chronicle games, after he destroyed Bracaduun Empire, by former knight of empire - Rion Gryphonheart, who created his own kingdom on northern ruins of Bracaduun - Erathia. Southern ruins formed own kingdom - Bracada. As when it was, it's hard to tell but around 1000 years before HoMM3:

HoMM3 Necromancy Origin said:
(...)
Such a practice was so blasphemous (even to the Wizards and Alchemists) that the Necromancers' cult was exiled from the nation of Bracada (the southern mountains I mentioned earlier). Wandering the continent, the cult eventually settled in the AvLee - a region teeming with life. As time passed, the Necromancers, trying to reach their goal of a perfect resurrection, slowly drained all the life around them.
(...)
Today the nation of Deyja, barren home of the Necromancers for nearly a millenium, continues to grow like a cancerous scar in the heart of the AvLee. The elves have been unable to stop this slow spread of lifelessness, nor has any other nation even tried. No war has ever been declared on Deyja - even if the Necromancers were completely destroyed, the land is uninhabitable.


Conquest of the Underworld starts some time after WotW, maybe decades - Rion married Tarnum sister and had a fathered a daughter - Allison. She is old enough to be a ruler (I suppose 20+ years).


Next game is... hard to tell: Master of the Elements, World Tree or Revolt of the Beastmasters. Every bet can be right, however:

Master of the Elementals said:
King Magnus accepted my invitation to a private dinner, but neither of us enjoyed ourselves much. The moment we sat down, Magnus said, "I first saw you long ago, shortly before you conquered Castle Steelhorn." Somehow, Magnus knew what my question was going to be.  This man was immortal, and I wanted to know why. "You're immortal," I said. "Of course, but not in the same way as you," Magnus said.  "I first found out I was immortal when one of your Behemoths killed me.  Imagine my surprise when I came back to life.  I have spent much of my time ever since researching magic and the world around me - which is why I came here to learn about the Elemental Planes."

(...)

As helpful as King Magnus seems, he also sent along a representative, named Barsolar, to make sure someone protects the interests of the kingdom.  From the first moment we met, Barsolar has been trying to tell me what to do.  He's more annoying than any person I have met, and a Wizard as well.  Two reasons for me to hate him.  Personally, I think the twit needs to be pushed off the nearest cliff.  Unfortunately, I would only end up with more problems if the third cousin of the king disappeared.


I don't really know who is "third cousin" in family tree, but if I am (and Wikipedia is) right, Barsolar and Gavin Magus were born in same centaury (+/- some years) and there is no indication that Barsolar is immortal like his "third cousin", yet he is alive in Master of Elementals. Granted, he is a wizard so he can live longer than average person but I don't think more than one or two centuries longer.

Oh, and during MotE at least 30 years passed:
Quote:
It didn't take long for one of the Mages to figure out how long we have been gone from this world.  Thirty years!


And there is and epilogue:
MotE epilogue said:
Epilogue:
Tarnum defeated the Elemental Lords, casting them back to their own planes forever.  Knowing that if another gained mastery over the elements the world would never be safe, Tarnum destroyed the Conflux towns and all records of the Elemental Planes.  He soon exchanged his robe and staff for furs and a sword, returning to his life as a Barbarian.

Maybe it's nothing but Tarnum starts in World Tree as barbarian.


As for World Tree and Fiery Moon (which are one story, so they take action one after another):

World Tree said:
True, but recently a brutal tribe of Barbarians from a land called Krewlod have turned one of their ancient kings into a war god, and they make sacrifices to him.  They felt they needed a perfect leader to inspire them to greatness once again.  Apparently, one of the Ancestors accepted this worship, drew power from it, and took on the form of this war god.  He even gave himself a name - Vorr," said Addar. Krewlod was a familiar name.  It was the new name given to my homeland.  Could this ancient Barbarian King have been me?  Could my people be modeling their brutality after my own actions?


"Ancient" is something you rather won't call what happened one or two centuries ago. on the other hand Krewlod is a new name... at least to Tarnum.

Revolt of the Beastmasters - we barely know anything about its background. We don't know even how old is Tatalia itself.
We only know that Erathian king is a bad person, so it takes place after Conquest of the Underworld (Queen Allison Gryphonheart was good) and before HoMM3 (Nicolas Gryphonheart wasn't a tyrant). We know that during Timber Wars (624-789 AS) both rulers of AvLee and Erathia weren't so good (including executing messenger). Even after Timber Wars Erathia's rulers weren't so saint:

Might and Magic 7 said:
In 817, the long suffering citizens of Harmondale tore the cruel Baron Danforth Octavio to pieces in the streets over his enthusiastic tax collection methods.  Seizing the moment, the mob elevated mayor Ty Vespin to King of Harmondale, and installed him in the castle.  The glorious reign of King Vespin the First lasted exactly six weeks.  Erathian King Aaron Gryphonheart IV marched on the town with two veteran legions, and put King Vespin and his loudest supporters to the sword.  With this "victory" in hand, King Gryphonheart then marched upon the elves, who slew him in battle two weeks later.


Yet in Revolt Mad Gryphonheart's son - Niven - seems to be a good person, who became next king. I suppose Mad King was the last one of (long) warlike and ruthless line of Gryohonheart dynasty. But this is just my guess. There also was a text about an old statue of Barbarian Tyrant King, but unfortunately I can't find right now it.


As for Clash of Dragons - it has Mutare Dragon in it, so it take place after HoMM3:AB and Sword of Frost take place after Mutare death (mentioned in Clash epilogue) and some time before HoMM4 intro.
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"Details are everything."
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 30, 2019 11:54 PM bonus applied by Maurice on 31 Jan 2019.
Edited by verriker at 23:56, 30 Jan 2019.

Avone said:
fan fiction


thank you for supporting my correct statements with the Yennifer quote and the big fanwanky copy paste, I thought this paste would be in poor taste due to the spoilers but I will still give you a big kiss in bed lol

however in the haste to paste you had missed an obvious spot,

he said:
There was a time when my soul was as dark as they come, when my heart was consumed with hatred.  It brought my downfall and now that I've had the chance to live beyond the normal lifespan of a human, I've seen that my actions have scarred the world and its people as well.


she said:
But I shouldn't have underestimated the determination of these creatures.  Even after hundreds of years of slavery, they have been able to summon strength from somewhere deep within and spread the word despite the punishment.


thereafter that Revolt is past Tarnum's sell-by date, albeit do not forget that the Barbarians went into their Mercenary ways of Heroes 3 which throws the spanner in the works if you will fan fiction it before The World Moon lol

they said:
With the help of the Pendant of Total Recall, Tarnum opened up his mind and revealed his darkest memories to King Targor.

And Tarnum said, "I have spent centuries trying to redeem myself for these crimes.  Don't follow my example!"

So, King Targor fell to his knees, immediately realizing that he had been wrong.  But it wasn't too late to correct his mistakes.


it said:
I woke this morning sick for the first time in centuries.  I rushed from my tent, dropped to my knees, and heaved for nearly an hour.  Even now, I can barely sit in the saddle.  Sweat rolls down my face as if the rain fell on me alone.  And I can feel the heat emanating from my skin.


as such one wastes the breath trying to fudge that the World Tree is not centuries on, for Tarnum himself blurts that it is (bear in mind that Krewlod is in the Conquest of the Underworld too so he obviously does not mean literally brand new name) lol

Quote:
"Aberton Falls.  It's a little village on the Erathian-Krewlod border.  We dealt often with the Barbarians.  My parents and sister were killed by one of those brutal savages, and my other sister was kidnapped."


----------

Avonu said:
I don't really know who is "third cousin" in family tree, but if I am (and Wikipedia is) right, Barsolar and Gavin Magus were born in same centaury (+/- some years) and there is no indication that Barsolar is immortal like his "third cousin", yet he is alive in Master of Elementals. Granted, he is a wizard so he can live longer than average person but I don't think more than one or two centuries longer.


theoretically he can get new third cousins or other relatives at any time by marriage depending on which man or woman he bonks and puts a ring on it (do not forget he was eager to ring Emilia, as probably many women in the past) so as a time evidence it can be thrown in the bin, however King Magnus was My Grandson Myself and did not make his immortality public until the modern day of Heroes 4 (bear in mind the King Magnus II), so the third cousin thing is potentially just a lie lol

Avonu said:
Revolt of the Beastmasters - we barely know anything about its background. We don't know even how old is Tatalia itself.


it was beyond the natural lifespan of Tarnum as said above lol

Avonu said:
We only know that Erathian king is a bad person, so it takes place after Conquest of the Underworld (Queen Allison Gryphonheart was good) and before HoMM3 (Nicolas Gryphonheart wasn't a tyrant). We know that during Timber Wars (624-789 AS) both rulers of AvLee and Erathia weren't so good (including executing messenger). Even after Timber Wars Erathia's rulers weren't so saint


personally this is fairly naive to label who is good, bad and not so saint, we did not see the full reign of Allison or Nicolas and mostly received the biased view of Tarnum or others,
for all you know these Great Kings did all they could to Make Erathia Great Again when we were not hearing about them so it is unfair to judge these them on a basis of a skirmish or two in love and war (except Mad King Gryphonheart he smells) lol

plus Nicolas happily banished the Necromancers, made many enemies who resented him, dominated the hapless Deyjans after death, invaded his own kingdom Erathia for petty revenge (killing and harvesting many) and repeatedly shagged out of wedlock for others to clean up without telling his friends or family, I do not think I would vote for him in the general election (if I elected the king) cheers lol
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted January 31, 2019 11:35 AM

I bet that someone in nwc played Planescape Torment and took the idea of immortal warrior from there.

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