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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Tower is OP in HotA
Thread: Tower is OP in HotA This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 05, 2019 06:45 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:51, 05 May 2019.

Otuken said:
Tower's heroes are awful but Inferno heroes aren't great either.


Pyre is pretty good. Ayden makes all Wizards wish they were him, even though Heretic is a crappy class by itself. Those two are already pretty much better than everything Tower offers.

Otuken said:
but tower's other pros enormously surprass them and makes it the greatest town imho.


Care to list them?


Castle/Cove have significantly better damage per week for their whole army than other towns, for once, and they come with pretty good distribution of specials and shooters. Cove in particular with ridiculous avenger special of snakes, stacking -def from witches and flying crusaders.

If you hate titans so much you could try mass seadogs + Eovacius. It's really funny to see them wipe out Titans in first turn lol. Unless Tower gets angels or something fast, they can't even prevent it properly - too slow of a town.
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Known Hero
posted May 05, 2019 07:46 PM

Doomforge said:
Otuken said:
Tower's heroes are awful but Inferno heroes aren't great either.


Pyre is pretty good. Ayden makes all Wizards wish they were him, even though Heretic is a crappy class by itself. Those two are already pretty much better than everything Tower offers.




Precisely!
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2019 08:58 PM

Wizards will have tons of mana if they learn Intelligence though, sadly Intelligence and especially Mysticism is not really needed. Disabling Wizard's Well for a start would at least make them a bit more valueable.
Neela, Cyra and Solmyr are pretty good Tower heroes.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted May 05, 2019 09:41 PM

I consider heroes as good only if they specialize Logistics, offense or defense. Neela is overall better than both Ayden and Pyree.

Advatages of Tower:

Only town has 3 shooters 2 of them has no melee penalty, also having 2 flyer makes a lot easier to capture other towns, being able to stack 7.th level creature other than angel, weekly second highest HP output (if I am not wrong), decent damage, some magic immunities, artifact merchant. to me having the best 1.st, 6.th and 7th level units +getting extra buff with HotA expansion.

On the other hand Cove is just as slow as tower, has weekly low HP output worse native terrain, fragile low level units, lack of powerstack and being worse than Tower (due to having less flyer/shooter) in sieges makes it overall just a worse alternative of Tower.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 05, 2019 11:09 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 23:12, 05 May 2019.

Neela might be better than Ayden (Heretics suck, however Ayden>Wizards, that was my point), however:

starting with Scholar -
highest chance skill to learn is learning
very average chance of getting archery -
30-30-20-20 stat distribution -
fairly likely to get eagle eye, sorcery, mysticism for a might hero -

The specialization is fantastic, but the starting skill and general secondary chances are really off putting, you will not get her to have good skills consistently with her skill pool polluted with high chances for crap skills, also only 60% chance for ATT/DEF is the lowest for might heroes in the game, very close to a Stronghold Battle mage actually and wayy off from Barbarian or Beastmaster.

You may be better off trying to get a Barbarian or Beastmaster in the tavern. You may even get Orrin if RNGesus smiles upon you.


I'll show you a chart tomorrow, Tower doesn't have that great effective HP and their raw HP is worse than Rampart either way.

And did you just call native swamp town "worse terrain" ? Being able to move in the swamp without penalties is a massive advantage.
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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted May 06, 2019 01:46 AM
Edited by heymlich at 01:48, 06 May 2019.

Neela sucks. Really. With Neela, half of the time I end up without Earth Magic and she almost never gets Logistics. Archery? Maybe at lvl 20. Any random Ranger or Overlord is better than Neela.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2019 02:03 AM

heymlich said:
Neela sucks. Really. With Neela, half of the time I end up without Earth Magic and she almost never gets Logistics. Archery? Maybe at lvl 20. Any random Ranger or Overlord is better than Neela.


In WoG all these "crap" heroes are super cool, because of the improvement of skills like eagle eye, tactics, mysticism, and all that. Also, the heroes can acquire some 19-20 skills if I remember correctly, and they can learn and un-learn skills at will through some buildings on the adventure map.

I know that WoG is a bit cumbersome to learn in the beginning, but in all honesty, it's the best Heroes 3 mod I have ever played - and I've never played HotA, HD, or whatever other mod xD.

Seriously, give WoG a try. Spend a few hours to read what each script does, then check the ones you like, uncheck the ones you don't, save the configuration, reload the game, and... DONE! Play the saved configuration for years to come.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted May 06, 2019 03:12 AM

I think the developers created these awful tower heroes intentionally for counterbalancing Tower.

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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted May 06, 2019 05:47 AM

monere said:

Seriously, give WoG a try.


I have tried WoG for some time, and I didn't like it at all.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2019 09:10 AM

heymlich said:
I have tried WoG for some time, and I didn't like it at all.


Ok

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2019 02:33 PM

Doomforge said:

And did you just call native swamp town "worse terrain" ? Being able to move in the swamp without penalties is a massive advantage.

Its not so good when you have to carry around angels, firebirds and cyclops from creature banks Grass RULES

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 06, 2019 03:34 PM

heymlich said:
monere said:

Seriously, give WoG a try.


I have tried WoG for some time, and I didn't like it at all.


+1 from me. WoG feels like a literal mess without vision. I know it's about customizing, but how can we discuss a game where everyone uses a different set of rules? that's right, we can't. We can only pinpoint things that are seriously lol. Like stacking fear and paralyzing attack on a (improved) commander - now that's pretty lol.

I think Hota wanted to implement commanders at some point but gave up - no wonder...



Otuken said:
I think the developers created these awful tower heroes intentionally for counterbalancing Tower.


Regular tower is already crippled by ridiculous resource costs on top of crappy heroes.

Hota tower has been buffed and still doesn't impress me. But at least you can skip mages and go for giants without having to pay 5 of each resource for a tier 4, lol.

arch magi actually require 10 of each resource for an upgraded tier 4 building, which is insane since the unit is just OK.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 06, 2019 03:43 PM

I think they should have moved some of the rare resource cost from Mage Tower to upg. Mage Tower, instead of changing the build order.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2019 04:25 PM

It still wouldn't have solved the problem. It would have been better to have just halved the costs for this tier's building (including the upgrade)

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted May 06, 2019 04:44 PM

Doomforge said:
heymlich said:
monere said:

Seriously, give WoG a try.


I have tried WoG for some time, and I didn't like it at all.


+1 from me. WoG feels like a literal mess without vision. I know it's about customizing, but how can we discuss a game where everyone uses a different set of rules? that's right, we can't. We can only pinpoint things that are seriously lol. Like stacking fear and paralyzing attack on a (improved) commander - now that's pretty lol.

I think Hota wanted to implement commanders at some point but gave up - no wonder...



Otuken said:
I think the developers created these awful tower heroes intentionally for counterbalancing Tower.


Regular tower is already crippled by ridiculous resource costs on top of crappy heroes.

Hota tower has been buffed and still doesn't impress me. But at least you can skip mages and go for giants without having to pay 5 of each resource for a tier 4, lol.

arch magi actually require 10 of each resource for an upgraded tier 4 building, which is insane since the unit is just OK.


Aren't Castle, Dungeon and Inferno almost as expensive as Tower? At least you can skip mages and unlike mages Dungeon has to build Evil Eye's dwelling which require one of resorces. Also castle is more dependent to gems since this town doesn't produce gem and getting Archangel is generally harder than Titans.

I would aways prefer cheap lvl7 dwelling rather than lvl4.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 06, 2019 04:46 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 16:46, 06 May 2019.

@Monere Why not?, then they could build mages easier and get on with genies/nagas after that. Now you might end up building mages after giants, which was clearly not intended. It's not like mages are super powerful, so why are they now the last unit to build in Tower?

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heymlich
heymlich


Known Hero
posted May 06, 2019 06:28 PM
Edited by heymlich at 18:31, 06 May 2019.

Doomforge said:

Regular tower is already crippled by ridiculous resource costs on top of crappy heroes.


I love playing tower and I think it depends a lot on map/settings. Tower is doing surprisingly well on very poor maps/impossible setting because of Master Gremlins.

Also, tower can take their lvl 6/7 dwellings day 1, if there is one reachable. This totally changes things, because 2 Nagas or 1 Giant can do most of the starting area alone. Many premade maps have lvl 7 dwellings, and tower rocks on these maps. With stronghold or fortress I sometimes fail to take the lvl 7 dwelling in week 1 at all if I'm not offered an elementalist.

The same goes for the hill fort. No other faction profits from the hill fort as much as tower.

Also, Cyra is OP as a starting hero. Banning the only good tower hero and then complaining about their lack of good heroes.

So, after banning everything that is good for tower, it is to be expected for them to fall behind. Ban Behemoths and see if Stronghold can still compete :lol:

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted May 06, 2019 08:04 PM

because they cost too much for what they do. Balance or no balance magi should cost at least half the resources they cost (including the upgrade).

+2 of each resource, and an additional +3 for upgrading is still expensive for a tier 4 creature. Only Vampire Lords deserve to be this expensive, all other creatures don't.

That's how I see it...

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 06, 2019 08:51 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 20:55, 06 May 2019.

So the solution is just buying them dead last?
If lets say 3 of each rare resource went from mages to upg. mages you could at least build mages easier in the first place, to get production going. The upgrade can wait until resources can better be afforded for the library.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 06, 2019 10:02 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 22:05, 06 May 2019.

heymlich said:
Also, Cyra is OP as a starting hero. Banning the only good tower hero and then complaining about their lack of good heroes.

So, after banning everything that is good for tower, it is to be expected for them to fall behind. Ban Behemoths and see if Stronghold can still compete :lol:


Cyra is not at all OP, still a crappy Wizard class that will ruin your day with Learning/Eagle Eye/Mysticism on level ups + bonus to haste is arguably less important for this town compared to others. She is banned because diplomacy is OP and all heroes starting with diplo are autobanned.

phoenix4ever said:
So the solution is just buying them dead last?


well both Nagas and Giants/Titans offer better value. Would you rather have extra mages or extra Nagas/Giants?

in the end I usually banish mages to 2nd week (in HotA of course), even 3rd if I seriously struggle with resources. Titans are the highest priority and this just goes in the way of getting them fast.
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