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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: A fresh idea
Thread: A fresh idea
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 20, 2019 08:43 AM

A fresh idea

How would you feel about all heroes in Heroes 3 starting with 2 random skills?
That would certainly mix things up and perhaps make things more interesting?
If a hero specialises in a skill, that hero could also start with that skill + a random skill. Class specific skills like Leadership for knights, could also be Leadership + a random skill etc. Ballista/Cannon specialists Artillery + a random skill etc.
What do think about this, could it be interesting or would it ruin the identity of heroes and balance of factions?

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2019 09:29 AM

I would personally like to have an option to play as a "custom hero", meaning you could start with randomized speciality and secondary skills. Maybe there would be a button in the menu, where you would choose your faction first and then could choose to play as Randomized hero as well. Ofc in case of playing multiplayer games, players would need to first agree with these rules.

Other than that, I don't see why forcing to apply on all heroes would be a wise decision. How would you deal with Necropolis heroes for example? And yeah, this would kinda ruin some (if not all) hero identitys, especially if all secondary skills would have an equal change of appearing.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 20, 2019 09:32 AM

Well, one crucial question before going further: how would you do that, assuming you talk Hota or SoD?

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2019 09:33 AM

Necromancy should be kept as it is, as you wouldn't want a cleric to get necromancy because it's not logical. And you wouldn't want necro heroes NOT to get necromancy since this skill is necro's biggest strength.

And diplomacy should not be offered AT ALL because if one player gets it while the others don't... well, it's game over right there!

Other than these 2 exceptions randomizing skills is a good idea

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted July 20, 2019 10:36 AM
Edited by RerryR at 10:41, 20 Jul 2019.

Imagine you start with Eagle Eye and Ballistics xD -> instant reroll/restart
at Hourglass: one of us has to change avatar ^^

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2019 10:56 AM
Edited by gatecrasher at 11:05, 20 Jul 2019.

Just pick "random hero" and you've got what you want effectively.
Except for the fact that the skills aren't evenly distributed.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2019 11:00 AM

RerryR said:

at Hourglass: one of us has to change avatar ^^


You're right.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted July 20, 2019 11:09 AM

*kiss*

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 20, 2019 11:28 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:34, 20 Jul 2019.

Well I thought about Necro heroes and they should probably all still start with Necromancy and Necromancy should'nt be offered to any other classes!
What I meant when I said random, I did'nt mean completely random, I meant random in accordance to class, so for example Wizards would have good chance of starting with Intelligence, Druids Scholar, Clerics First Aid etc.
Class restrictions like Water Magic for Barbarians would also still apply.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 20, 2019 12:50 PM

maybe no skills at start at all...however specialists of certain skill would get it on 5th level...

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 20, 2019 05:47 PM

I also proposed this idea earlier.
It must be extended to all heroes to erase the situation when player chooses one of mightest heroes of faction and that way wins.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 20, 2019 09:32 PM
Edited by Dj at 21:34, 20 Jul 2019.

That is not 'fresh' 'Fresh' would mean skill revamp, maybe even gameplay revamp. Let's be honest here, the game has underdeveloped mechanics with fitting visuals that we all liked and made us cling to it to this day. It is a flawed old game.


Ofc, my ideal of a perfect Heroes 3 game is not the same as yours, but here is what i have in mind:

After you pick the map, you get to join an alliance:
'The Good Ones': Castle, Rampart, Tower, Grove
'The Bad Ones': Necropolis, Inferno, Dungeon, Forge
'The Neutral Ones': Stronghold, Fortress, Conflux, Cove

This would imply a few things: your heroes and your area will be limited to a range of abilities, skills, creatures, artifacts only from the respective alliance. for example: you cannot possibly own skeletons as a druid. The skeletons will never ask to join or let them vanish. They will fight you no matter what -> ensures the experience gain for the hero.

Joining an alliance will open opportunities for you:
'The Good Ones will give you Bless, Prayer, Haste, Destroy Undead but not Animate Dead, Death Ripple as spells, Leadership, Offence, Defense but not Necromancy as skills. (Skills and Spell Schools system revamped to match the identity of the faction: Castle has Light oriented spells and skills, Rampart  nature/earth oriented spells and skills)

'The Bad Ones' will give you all the darkness associated skills, spells, creatures but not the light associated skills, spells, creatures.


After picking your allegiance, you pick your hero and you start the game with the HERO only. No town, no timer for not owning a town. It's you and your starting hero who has a talent tree.

You hero has a given number of individual abilities (specialties) which will be unlocked at given levels. eg: creature specialties: heroes who specialize in creatures will unlock abilities for their respective creature. at level 10: pikemen will pierce defense, lvl 20: pikemen will deal bonus damage to inferno creatures etc.

All heroes have a common talent tree which grows more and more branches with each choice at each level.

Level 1: choose your affinity to MAGIC or MIGHT which will open a new branch of skills to your talent tree. Magic heroes will get skills like spell power amplification, mana pool enlargement, mana regeneration, can recruit pixies (in conflix) etc. Might heroes will get armorer, offence, spell resistance, tactics, can recruit pikemen (in castle) etc.
Level 2: choose your class (restricted to your alliance) which will open a new branch of skills to your talent tree. Beastmasters have beast-related abilities (buffs for example, can recruit beasts: basilisks, serpent flies, wyvern etc)
Level 3: choose a magic school (restricted to your alliance as well) which will open a new branch to your talent tree with the following skills: Light magic provides: divine shield, heal, resurrection, prayer. Nature magic provides: bark skin (stone skin), entangling roots, meteor shower.
Level 4: build a village
Level 5: build a town
Level 10: you can own a ballista which opens a branch of talents related to ballista with abilities specific to your faction
(inferno's balistas burn enemies with fire magic, rampart's ballista with earth magic)
LEvel 20: you can own a first aid tent (same as ballista)
Level 30: you can build a capitol
Level 50: you can own a catapult. Only then you can siege other cities and occupy them.


What i am trying to say is that everything you do, recruit, build, use, own (artifacts) depends directly to the identity and the level of your main hero.


but i digress...this idea is very complicated and probably unattainable, but one can dream ;(








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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2019 10:45 PM
Edited by AlfWithCake at 22:46, 20 Jul 2019.

Hourglass said:

You're right.
 Thank god, it felt crazy to see 2 people have same avatar. I would hate it to point it out myself first.
Dj said:

Might heroes will get Spell Resistance
 A thing I never understood in general, and this is applicable to Heroes 3, is why are mage heroes stripped of magic resistance skills. They've bound their life to research magic, know it nature of spell in and out, but for some reason can't protect themselves against it, while might heroes, who most certainly would bruteforce their resistance solutions, can only dream of resistance spells and skills mages can manage. Even if you consider just game balance, when some heroes significantly rely on magic, there's nothing wrong when another mage hero has this a trump card.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 20, 2019 10:57 PM
Edited by Dj at 23:04, 20 Jul 2019.

AlfWithCake said:
Hourglass said:

You're right.
 Thank god, it felt crazy to see 2 people have same avatar. I would hate it to point it out myself first.
Dj said:

Might heroes will get Spell Resistance
 A thing I never understood in general, and this is applicable to Heroes 3, is why are mage heroes stripped of magic resistance skills. They've bound their life to research magic, know it nature of spell in and out, but for some reason can't protect themselves against it, while might heroes, who most certainly would bruteforce their resistance solutions, can only dream of resistance spells and skills mages can manage. Even if you consider just game balance, when some heroes significantly rely on magic, there's nothing wrong when another mage hero has this a trump card.



there are many facets of this idea that i didnt present. This was only an 'on the go' presentation-summary-thingy.

here is why i didnt mention anything about spell resistance in magic heroes:

I imagined a table of effectiveness between magic schools and their affiliated creatures.


Fire Spells and Fire creatures (phoenix, efreet, fire elems) will deals bonus/crit damage to nature/earth creatures, but will be ineffective against water creatures (halved damage).

Of course, heretics will gain a passive ability at a certain level which makes them a Fire Magic affiliated creature, druids for nature, clerics for light, navigators (cove) for water etc.


Something like this:




And not to mention the number of magic protection spells (wich are a thing in the current game) that magic heroes can learn and upgrade.


Like you said, magic resistance will become an inherent part of magic heroes and for might heroes it will become an attainable ability.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2019 08:59 AM

@Dj... what tool did you use to create that gorgeous infographic? I would love to be able to do this for my own projects, but never found something that works under linux. Please tell me!

Also, I like the ideas from your first post and I have a few ideas of my own, but I'm not sharing them for the same reason that you've  mentioned: unless they'll ever materialize they are of no use to anyone in this state.

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tchamber
tchamber

Tavern Dweller
posted July 28, 2019 12:49 AM

phe said:
maybe no skills at start at all...however specialists of certain skill would get it on 5th level...


I like this...too many have a wasted skill slot.

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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted July 29, 2019 11:49 AM

monere said:
@Dj... what tool did you use to create that gorgeous infographic? I would love to be able to do this for my own projects, but never found something that works under linux. Please tell me!
He copied this from wikia of some game, as far as I can tell, no magic here.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted July 29, 2019 08:07 PM

monere said:
I would love to be able to do this for my own projects, but never found something that works under linux. Please tell me!


Offtopic, but the tool you are looking for is Inkscape.


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