Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Intelligence skill
Thread: Intelligence skill This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 09:54 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:01, 11 Aug 2019.

Intelligence skill

Okay guys maybe it's due to the way I play the game, but I find Intelligence in Heroes 3 extremely powerful.
Let's have at look at what it does:
Basic: +25% more max. mana.
Advanced: +50% more max. mana.
Expert: +100% (!) more max. mana.
Besides the weird progression, we can see Expert Intelligence will double your mana! So now most of you will say "big deal I don't need all that mana anyway" and you would probably be correct, but that is due to the way most maps are set up, with lot of Wells, Magic Springs, even Altar of Mana in HotA + you can always just Town Portal to a Dungeon with Mana Vortex to double your mana instantly right? And let's not forget about Wizard's Well, which basically gives you unlimited mana!
Now imagine there are no Magic Springs, no Altar of Mana, Town Portal which only takes you to nearest town and no Wizard's Well, that's the way I play the game and suddenly +100% mana seems extremely powerful.
So what do think about the Intelligence skill?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted August 11, 2019 09:55 AM

Yeah, I love the Intelligence skill myself and I pick it whenever I can.

Combined with Mana Vortex it's even more sweet.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 11, 2019 10:11 AM

Only a barbarian would claim he does not need all that mana
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Roman2211
Roman2211


Adventuring Hero
posted August 11, 2019 10:49 AM

Very useful skill

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gravedigger
Gravedigger


Hired Hero
posted August 11, 2019 11:03 AM

Well, very long ago i played Campaigns without using spell book
Yes it's possible - it's fun, some kind of challenge i guess.

but yeah intelligence can become overpowered, hero with 50 knowledge and with expert intelligence.... I'm grateful for such artifacts as Orb of Inhibition

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 11, 2019 11:04 AM

i never pick it cause i only play against the AI and i don't need intel to defeat it. But I must say that it's a tempting skill. Of all the underrated skills I regard intelligence as the best

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 11, 2019 11:21 AM

phoenix4ever said:
Okay guys maybe it's due to the way I play the game, ...


It is. Everything in the game has a certain amount of power, based not only on circumstance (by chance of what items are generated on a given map), but also in relation to other game design aspects. By altering those game design aspects, you implicitely make related aspects more or less powerful, depending on the actual changes you made.

In trying to flatten everything that's overpowered, you run the risk of eventually completely leveling the playing field until nothing sticks out anymore; no choice has any relevance anymore because there's nothing that makes any meaningful difference anymore.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 11:36 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:39, 11 Aug 2019.

@Maurice I understand where you are going with this and even if I tried I could never make all skills 100% equal, Logistics is still Logistics, Eagle Eye is still Eagle Eye and Wisdom is still Wisdom. So some skills will always be more suitable than others.
I already lowered Expert Intelligence to +75% in my game, but it still feels too powerful, I'm considering 50% or 60% instead, probably 60% and Mana Vortex also 60%.
It does'nt help AI is not allowed to build Mana Vortex either.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 11, 2019 12:18 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:28, 11 Aug 2019.

phoenix4ever said:
maybe it's due to the way I play the game, but I find Intelligence in Heroes 3 extremely powerful.

And Mysticism looks quite ok too, right? Of course is the way you play it. Suppose Crag never got Intelligence but assembled the Wizard's well, who is in advantage, Crag or Elleshar? But not in your game, you won't allow him to do that.
A good example of how absurdly powerful those two are in similar circumstances can be found in the last episode of the Dracon's campaign.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 12:24 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:24, 11 Aug 2019.

No cause Wizard's Well feel like a cheat to me + it ruins Mysticism.
And does AI know how to use it, probably not as it never/very rarely assembles combo artifacts.
Wizard's Well is like playing the game in "Easy Mode", just like Advanced Town Portal.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 11, 2019 12:34 PM

After all these years and with such of good understanding of how things work at the lowest level you still imagine an AI that thinks for himself only is not that bright.
The only safe way to increase AI's power is by giving her growth and resource bonus and eventually find ways to improve their heroes before they meet you.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 12:44 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:46, 11 Aug 2019.

It's just some rules ruins the game for me, AI is not allowed to create combo artifacts, AI is not allowed to build certain buildings and AI is not allowed to cast certain spells, including Fire Wall, which makes Luna's specialty useless to AI.
Imagine if AI was allowed to play with the same rules as humans, it would be a MUCH better opponent.
You honestly can't say Heroes 3 is a challenging game VS AI, unless you get really unlucky.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 11, 2019 01:05 PM

Lol are we considering combination artifacts part of the balance now? Also the AI will always be the victim so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 01:12 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:13, 11 Aug 2019.

If we want a more fair game, there should have been no combo artifacts at all or AI should do everything in it's power to assemble and use them.
I would like to see the face of a player getting surprise attacked by AI with 5579 Power Liches.
Perhaps that would have changed the perspective of how OP some of the stuff actually is...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 11, 2019 01:22 PM

Combos, some relics, 8th level creatures, all this is for custom maps, where the retaliating power is set to accord you gathering such special bonuses. Is like a Ferrari engine, not suitable within the city, yet is still there and so fun to use in the appropriate environment. When ToH released the list of first playable MP maps, there was not a single one with utopias, relics and azure dragons joiners, just saying.

Without the uber powerful relics and combos - add to this necromancy/diplomacy, the game would not be the magnet it is/was, however that doesn't mean you have to constantly cut and mutilate its pulp in order to have a standard set of features working everywhere. Is just not possible. As proof the zillion of threads you feel the need to pull, it will never ends.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 01:32 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:54, 11 Aug 2019.

Well apparently I am one of a few people who cares about balance a lot. Most players are cool with few or no rules, but that is not balanced at all, but apparently it's fun getting such a huge advantage, that the game is basically decided at that very moment. I just don't understand it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gravedigger
Gravedigger


Hired Hero
posted August 11, 2019 02:04 PM
Edited by Gravedigger at 14:07, 11 Aug 2019.

This gonna be dumb but instead of nerfing/rebalancing your game just make AI strong enough to be a tough challenge for you. I'm guessing but you are playing against AI right? so who forces you to use spell book, use everything what's wrong and unbalanced against yourself. Sir Mullich isn't fair? just place him as starting hero of AI. Boost him even more.


To be fair im doing it all the time - playing against real players isn't my thing. beating every mansion with 6 centaurs and 1 angel isn't my thing also - i don't enjoy the game this way, exploiting AI to maximum... If you don't know what i mean just look for ranked tournaments like Polish Tournament:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFJ9cNuEm3Q&t=765s

But fighting against AI which is 100 times stronger than you, got every creature x10 per week and have access to 100 dragon utopia. I like the feel how long i will last, without hope for winning


Now you are trying to rebalance everything, from skills trough heroes to artifacts. It's your game, it's your choice but think about unique aspect of those skills and heroes.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 11, 2019 02:12 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:13, 11 Aug 2019.

Balance is only good for multiplayer, where you want both opponents to have the most exactly same chances of success. Against AI you have to set you own difficulty by increasing their growth and improving their heroes. Impossible level represents a two week delay at the most, so something has to be done to keep AI more powerful then player, despise number of cities owned or battles won.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2019 02:12 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:18, 11 Aug 2019.

@Gravedigger I already made the game much harder. The biggest challenge is that AI can use Town Portal like normal, but for me it only goes to nearest town. This makes it incredibly hard to defend my towns and AI will come knocking at my door constantly.
As I said Wizard's Well is disabled and CotUK only makes Skeleton Warriors + AI can cast Berserk in HotA etc.
So there is a fine line between fun and frustration, at the moment the game seems even a bit too frustrating. But with no challenge, there would be no fun either.

@Bloodsucker I disagree that balance is only good for multiplayer.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 11, 2019 02:20 PM

So wait until someone makes an AI exactly as clever as you.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0892 seconds