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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: what town u like more and why?
Thread: what town u like more and why? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
ReinePedauque
ReinePedauque


Adventuring Hero
faerie
posted August 30, 2019 03:35 PM

what town u like more and why?

what town u like more and why?

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 30, 2019 03:57 PM

The same! All towns are good. Maybe you know Academy and Asylum are the best team. When H3 RoE has shown angel vs devil, and then deep strategy in expansions. H4 standard you see Academy and Asylum. 3DO/NWC can't give a wrong picture to you.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 30, 2019 04:11 PM
Edited by monere at 16:14, 30 Aug 2019.

order and chaos are my favorites. Which one I like more I can't say for sure...

ORDER

- spells... Order has the absolute best and most versatile spells in the game. No matter the situation you're in, or the enemy you're facing there is an Order spell that will help you out;

- the Nagas.... in H4 the Nagas look kinda silly when compared to the ones in H3, which looked like royalty, but... since I like the Nagas I like them in H4, too

- the dragon golems... I like DGs. Sometimes - even though the obvious pick would be the Titan - I still pick DGs, simply because they are cheaper and also because I genuinely like them;

- the look of the town when castle is built... it might sound silly, but I really do like how the Order town looks ON THE OUTSIDE when the castle is built. Oddly, it looks... futuristic

- nobility... on the highest difficulty the nobility skill is the most important skill in the game... probably;

- the treasury building... no explanations necessary here. Everybody wants more CA$H;

- it's a town for pussies... just stay in the bushes and shoot everyone down with halflings, titans, magi, and genies (I pity the enemy so much when they have to face Order);


CHAOS

- spells... just like Order, Chaos too has incredibly good spells (bloodfrenzy, mass slayer, mass first strike, cat reflexes, disintegrate, cloud of confusion, and one of my favorite spells in the game: mass misfortune)... Just too many cool spells not to like this town;

- the hydra... has any of you seen a hydra with giant strength, dragon strength, bless, bloodlust, vampiric touch, first strike, and cat reflexes on, fight? ... Me neither, cause no one has let me cast all these spells at the same time ... but you get my point;

- the medusae... here's the thing: Chaos has arguably the best level 2 creatures in the game, but... the problem for the minotaur is that it has to compete with the 9ay medusae. Had the medusae not been of the same tier with the minotaurs (or at least not have that lame death gaze, death stare, or whatever it's called) the minotaurs would have been the best tier 2 creature because of the blocking ability. That ability triggers an awful lot and blocks every type of damage / hit. Unfortunately, though, there's an even 9ayer ability and it belongs to the medusa, which makes the minotauur (probably) the least picked creature in the game

- the efreeti... not sure if the efreeti are better than the nightmares,, but I loved the H3 efreeti so I stuck with them. And speaking of nightmares...

- the nightmares... I only pick them when I need their special, cause otherwise they're pretty boring to play (even though they have good damage). But... it's a good creature, so there's that!

- the scout... 'coz dey be stealing stuff right from under the nose of unaware neutrals, and sometimes they can even sacrifice themselves by my own hand to steal resources / chests that I need

- pathfinding... L/XL maps are unplayable without pathfinding and boots of travel, and the good thing about Chaos is that they get easy and fast access to pathfinding;


And that's about it! Re-reading this list once more I can draw a conclusion that I like Chaos more. And I do. Most of the time I need Order's spells more than those from Chaos, but this doesn't stop me from playing Chaos more than any other town.

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Laati_Maticus
Laati_Maticus

Tavern Dweller
posted September 01, 2019 09:51 PM

Order > Chaos > Might > Death > Life > Nature

Order has unique troops with two separate play styles.

They have Lords as starting heroes. Nobility + Tactics = Lord Commander (+2 Morale to creatures). High morale is always nice.

Arguably the strongest spells in the game.

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ReinePedauque
ReinePedauque


Adventuring Hero
faerie
posted September 02, 2019 11:43 AM

why so low on preserve(

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Laati_Maticus
Laati_Maticus

Tavern Dweller
posted September 03, 2019 04:34 PM

ReinePedauque said:
why so low on preserve(


The reason is simple. The faction's spells are easily countered and the units are boring.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2019 12:18 AM

Laati_Maticus said:
The faction's spells are easily countered and the units are boring.
I actually agree with you here. As much as I like nature, and nature-based factions, as hard it is making myself to play Preserve due to the boring creatures. The leprechauns are useful and interesting in my opinion, and the faerie dragons. But all other creatures (and I'm also including the ones from the summoning portal) are uninteresting indeed. Ok, water elementals are both cool, and good, but it's still too little.

Also, yeah... being able to dispel Dragon Strength with a simple dispel, or cancellation spell is pretty stupid. Such a cool spell shouldn't be dispellable by any punk with a level 1 spell. Shame!

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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 12, 2019 06:02 PM

monere said:
Laati_Maticus said:
The faction's spells are easily countered and the units are boring.
I actually agree with you here. As much as I like nature, and nature-based factions, as hard it is making myself to play Preserve due to the boring creatures. The leprechauns are useful and interesting in my opinion, and the faerie dragons. But all other creatures (and I'm also including the ones from the summoning portal) are uninteresting indeed. Ok, water elementals are both cool, and good, but it's still too little.

Also, yeah... being able to dispel Dragon Strength with a simple dispel, or cancellation spell is pretty stupid. Such a cool spell shouldn't be dispellable by any punk with a level 1 spell. Shame!


Pain Mirror, Hypnotize, Vampiric Touch are also dispellable by punks with level 1 spell, it's so because they are very strong and can go wrong if used lightly. Equilibris even lowered the effect to 66% and it's still epic in effect.

But can you counter summons without wasting a turn? Not often actually.

Nature is underestimated a lot, it's pretty versatile and on normal maps compensates easily for it's weaknesses as most maps give you access to nobility and reward 1 creature scouts a lot, they also usually give access to basic dispel or cancellation which nature is probably best to combine with.

Remember just how much equilibris lowered the growth of sprites. They are great as summon spell, not just as scouts.They wont just block and lure your enemies, but will even do some minor damage as well.

Leprechauns make you lucky, block for you, even lure and take retaliations.

Water elementals with quicksand are often more effective than teleport as it takes a hero to cast teleport. Some units can resist slow, but not the quicksand (dwarves, golems, most heroes).

Unicorns that can blind your opponents, this is very underestimated as a tactic that can prolong battles.

Fifth level all are great and useful, phoenixes make them waste 2 turns, faeries can cast confusion if ignored, mantises can attack after any other creature you have and they will bind the enemy so someone has to kill them.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 14, 2019 08:49 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 08:49, 14 Sep 2019.

The custom towns I create in my mods are my favourites :V

Otherwise clearly Preserve, if only for the creature portal.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 14, 2019 09:18 AM
Edited by monere at 09:20, 14 Sep 2019.

Quote:
Pain Mirror, Hypnotize, Vampiric Touch are also dispellable by punks with level 1 spell, it's so because they are very strong and can go wrong if used lightly
they have meant to be strong because they're high level spells. And if you can dispel them so easily with low level spells that you get most of the time... what's the point of casting these powerful spells in the first place? For me, this is where the HoMM games - no matter which one we are talking about - should have improved. I think there should be 1-2 "dispel" type of spells for each level of the mage guild and these "dispel" spells should only work against spells of their respective level. If a player has had to build mage guild in 3 different towns in order to get the bloody Vampiric Touch then you have to hunt for a level 4 dispel spell if you wish to counter VT. That's only fair!

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vulcancolak
vulcancolak


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2019 12:23 PM

You guys playing on novice difficulty with 21095812390 of treasure chests? You are talking about minimum 30 level heroes like you are developing in every game.

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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2019 04:18 AM

monere said:
Quote:
Pain Mirror, Hypnotize, Vampiric Touch are also dispellable by punks with level 1 spell, it's so because they are very strong and can go wrong if used lightly
they have meant to be strong because they're high level spells. And if you can dispel them so easily with low level spells that you get most of the time... what's the point of casting these powerful spells in the first place?

Dispel, exorcism and cancellation have their own drawbacks.
On their own they are not much useful, they wont help you against most neutral armies and are best in effect against heroes.
They don't work against all spells, they have special targets that they can counter that are otherwise uncounterable.
The same argument you use can be applied when you develop grandmaster archery and the enemy blocks you with level 1 summoning, forcing you to waste a turn. Also all grandmaster curses and damage spells from no matter what kind of archmage are useless against magic resistance heroes, no matter the level, but on the other side magic resistance cannot block level 1 spells like bless.
The game intentionally has these quirks to balance itself out.
The equilibris team did raise the level a bit of some mass dispell spells to balance them out, but ultimatelly there must be a way to counter everything.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 15, 2019 07:09 AM

Quote:
The same argument you use can be applied when you develop grandmaster archery and the enemy blocks you with level 1 summoning, forcing you to waste a turn.


Not very convincing, there are ways around this such as using area damage with archery.

However when summoning Mantises for example, they can be destroyed by a simple cancellation/ mass cancellation...

Which is why this spell was made of higher level in Equilibris as you yourself noticed because it was NOT balanced, and I kept it strong and expensive in my mod.

Quote:
Also all grandmaster curses and damage spells from no matter what kind of archmage are useless against magic resistance heroes, no matter the level, but on the other side magic resistance cannot block level 1 spells like bless.


Magic Resistance can be annulled by some artifacts and effects, and you need grandmaster magic resistance to reach 100%, while Dispel is just a level 1 spell (and I think cancellation too in the normal game)
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2019 09:14 AM
Edited by monere at 09:19, 15 Sep 2019.

Quote:
However when summoning Mantises for example, they can be destroyed by a simple cancellation/ mass cancellation
holy crap! Really??? I honestly didn't know this. I thought cancellation only affects spells, not summoned creatures, even though technically the summons are still spells. That's so retarded to be honest (from a logical point of view I mean)

Quote:
Which is why this spell was made of higher level in Equilibris
no idea what this equilibris thing is, but apparently the guys / gals behind it are smart folks, because they think like me and can see what doesn't make sense in a strategy game. Kudos to equlibris team for using their brains.

Quote:
Dispel, exorcism and cancellation have their own drawbacks
they'd better have! They're freaking level ONE spells, so they should have all of the drawbacks on the god damn planet. When level 1 spells cancel / dispel level 3+ spells you know that something's wrong with the game.

Quote:
On their own they are not much useful, they wont help you against most neutral armies and are best in effect against heroes.
good. They fulfill their purpose then. Level 1 spells (low level spells, that is) should be mostly useless than useful. That's why they're low level spells.

Quote:
The same argument you use can be applied when you develop grandmaster archery and the enemy blocks you with level 1 summoning, forcing you to waste a turn
I don't see it the way you do. Summoning is not a direct counter to archery. Summoning is a separate game mechanic in it's own that is meant to add another strategy variable to the game, making the game more complex, therefore harder, therefore more strategic. The fact that you're using summons to block archers is part of the strategy players come up with. In other words, summoning has not been added as a way to block archers (I think), but merely as a way to increase the complexity and replayability of the game. If players have figured out that summons can help them block archers then its their own merit.

Quote:
all grandmaster curses and damage spells from no matter what kind of archmage are useless against magic resistance heroes, no matter the level
this is where the game is broken indeed, and which is one of the reasons why I prefer H3's way of doing things, rather than H4's. In H4 a level 50 hero with grandmaster everything on the combat tree is a phucking unkillable, killing machine. Way too broken! No bueno!

Quote:
on the other side magic resistance cannot block level 1 spells like bless
From a logical point of view you are right. From a gaming perspective... I don't know what to say. It's still not right, but somewhere you gotta make a difference

Quote:
The game intentionally has these quirks to balance itself out
I have no problem with having imbalances, but I have a problem with having overpowered imbalances that singlehandeldy decide the outcome of a game. These I can not stand indeed, and make the game unplayable for me.

Quote:
but ultimatelly there must be a way to counter everything
sure, but that way should be kept within the limits of logic and realism as much as possible. And nullifying the highest level spell in the game with the lowest level one... well, that is poor game design.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 15, 2019 10:34 AM
Edited by OhforfSake at 10:36, 15 Sep 2019.

monere said:
Quote:
However when summoning Mantises for example, they can be destroyed by a simple cancellation/ mass cancellation
holy crap! Really??? I honestly didn't know this. I thought cancellation only affects spells, not summoned creatures, even though technically the summons are still spells. That's so retarded to be honest (from a logical point of view I mean)


Cancellation does not destroy summons such as Summon Mantis, or at least not in the version of the game I play which is something that came with the cd. There may have been updates (downgrades?) that changes this. Cancellation does however destroy illusions, making it much more useful than banish when fighting illusions, especially the mass version is extremely powerful here. I don't know if it works similarly on raised units.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2019 10:45 AM

OhforfSake said:
Cancellation does not destroy summons such as Summon Mantis, or at least not in the version of the game I play which is something that came with the cd. There may have been updates (downgrades?) that changes this. Cancellation does however destroy illusions, making it much more useful than banish when fighting illusions, especially the mass version is extremely powerful here. I don't know if it works similarly on raised units.
I thought so, too, but then I remembered that I don't play H4 that much, and thought that I might know wrongly, which is why I was surprised at Nimostar's comment. But yeah, in the original game I, too, remember cancellation not to unsummon stuff. Also, if it works against illusions it makes banish obsolete in my opinion. As little H4 as I have played (when compared to H3 I mean, because otherwise I did play H4 for several years) I think cancellation should be left at it was originally, with the only exception that should only work against level 1-2 buffs and nothing more.

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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2019 07:08 PM

I didn't mention that I love to play with chaos the most.
This is because I can easily go for summons and tactics or combat plus damaging spells.
They have good potions, the 1000 experience building and the mana vortex which can be pretty helpful for hero focused armies.
On poorer maps I tend to take minotaurs, nightmares and black dragons.
On richer I go medusae, efreets and the last choice depends on my enemies and the map terrain (hydras are too slow on swamp or snow).
I don't mind hit and run tactics with armageddon and arrows or summons with quicksand and cancellations. My favorite are the summonings of demons (from imps to devils, each and every one).

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Approaching meltdown
posted September 15, 2019 07:49 PM

I liked Death because of vampires, necromancy, and the campaign
____________
Meds have been adjusted, should be sane for now

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2019 08:11 PM

TheUnknown said:
I didn't mention that I love to play with chaos the most.
This is because I can easily go for summons and tactics or combat plus damaging spells.
They have good potions, the 1000 experience building and the mana vortex which can be pretty helpful for hero focused armies.
On poorer maps I tend to take minotaurs, nightmares and black dragons.
On richer I go medusae, efreets and the last choice depends on my enemies and the map terrain (hydras are too slow on swamp or snow).
I don't mind hit and run tactics with armageddon and arrows or summons with quicksand and cancellations. My favorite are the summonings of demons (from imps to devils, each and every one).

man, how can you choose the most expensive creature in the game on poor maps? By the time you have 1 black dragon I will probably have 3 hydrae, and with first strike, slayer and bloodlust (all 3 easily obtainable and castable in any normal game) those 3 hydrae will snack on the dragon. I swear that I don't understand your logic

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted September 15, 2019 09:46 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:47, 15 Sep 2019.

Order is a lot of fun with ridiculous spells and some nice creatures (genies, titans, golden golems in Equilibris), but you really need a Rogue.

in HoMM3, 30% bonus from logistics is considered one of the strongest skills.

In HoMM4, you get 50% with a pathfinding bonus on top of that.

Ergo, you really, really need someone with scouting specs from the scratch. The mobility bonus is just absurdly good.

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