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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: MMH5.5 official Ladder
Thread: MMH5.5 official Ladder
frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 03, 2019 07:36 PM
Edited by frogo at 18:43, 28 Nov 2019.

MMH5.5 official Ladder

MMH5.5 now officially has its own Ladder!

heroes55ladder.com

You can play ranked games with a given mappool or create an unranked challenge with what ever settings you like.
The site is connected to discord, where a bot will tell you whenever you have a match, against whom and on what map.
Maps can be downloaded straight from the website.




Players can enter at what times they are theoretically aviable to ensure that a common ground can be found. Timezones are automatically converted.


Also,
The newest and biggest change:
The Gladiator Arena has been added!
The site gives an overview over the current standings and the Hall of Fame. You can see the heroes a player has already used by clicking his name.



You can now challenge other gladiators straight on the gladiator page. The ladder-bot will send them a discord message.

The match can be set up fully via the webpage, including picking a map and the heroes, all according to the GA rules.





All i can say is that its an amazing site and that i'm hyped for some Ladder/GA matches with this
And of course, thanks to the person who put in so much effort into this
(He even worked on it in the morning before work ):

Bulya!

Just check it out and click around some (you need to sign in before you can access all its features).

Tell us your thoughts
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 07:08 PM

This is an interesting development, certainly for me as someone who once worked for years in complete isolation on this project, thinking that h5 was pretty much completely death.

By the time RC12c can be released I will advertise this along the way, just a few ideas if you want to attract more people

-I think there should be a separate duel ladder.

-I frequently encounter comments stating h55 is rather difficult and neutrals are hard to deal with, so maybe there should be some sort of sub division for casual players with 'strong' monster games.  

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 06, 2019 09:36 PM

I also though that perhaps separating into 2 divisions or more can be a good idea, letting people play on the Hard difficulty settings and if both agree then even the Normal one.

Frogo treated it more as a place for the hardcore people, so we left unranked challenges for those who'd rather play on lower difficulty levels.

I think at least a separate Duel ladder can be good thing to have, perhaps we can find the better maps for it so that people won't have to look for them and it will be handed for them.

And I don't mind having a division for people who are new to MMH55, or prefer playing on the lower difficulty settings.
Perhaps it will be about making sure that good players don't abuse that to beat new players so that the new players don't lose their motivation. But perhaps in case somebody doesn't lose in the lower division can be automatically promoted to the higher division with a reset to his ELO (we can set the strict rules for that if we find it necessary).

@Frogo, what do you say. For now I implemented your ideas, but I think magno has a point.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 10:18 PM

Hm, in chess you cannot increase your elo rating much by beating weak players, but you can by beating strong players. so the players in the 'premier league' consistently stay stronger.

But at the same time, a match with 'strong' neutrals between strong players is still a match against a strong opponent regardless of the weak neutrals. In the end it is the quality of the opponent that decides how much you can score. The most important thing is that maps are roughly symmetrical for fairness.

So perhaps the range for a ranked game can be much wider, like for example most ARMG templates with 2 active players and neutrals strong or very strong, experience 3 or 4, and a lot of multiplayer maps at hard difficulty or higher can work?

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 06, 2019 10:57 PM

I was worried dividing the playerbase would not be a good move as it would result in less players per division. I could be wrong about that, if more players join then.

For now i am not convinced a more "casual" division would gain a suffcient player base. I think casual players dont care about ratings or Ladders, so i thought the unranked casual game mode would be more what they want. If they then eventually feel ready for more competetive play and want to be rated aswell, they may join the ladder.

A Duel Ladder makes sense to me, as it a whole diffrent thing.


@Magno
You are correct that the difficulity is only dependent on the opponent, but the game itself changes when creeps are to weak (as they would be with 'strong' creeps).
Creeping is a big part of the heroes game and players can be diffrently skilled at it. Making creeps to weak completly erases this part of the game. It mostly turns into a Duel-mode game with a delayed duel.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 11:16 PM

@frogo:

Yes i think you are right about that. I have seen streams with players never using split stack or sometimes not even doing any tactics, just run into battle with archers on frontline, but likely those are not going to do multiplayer, or they have to watch streams and learn fast.

Quote:
I think at least a separate Duel ladder can be good thing to have, perhaps we can find the better maps for it so that people won't have to look for them and it will be handed for them.


well I just put a huge amount of care in the ARMG duel template to balance it very precisely and have the match parameters completely user-configurable. so I recommend starting to look there and provide feedback if needed.
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 07, 2019 08:17 AM
Edited by Bulya at 08:19, 07 Nov 2019.

ok, so for now I'm working on a page that will make the Gladiator Arena a more automated tournament, so that people can challenge other people without letting Frogo know about it, as well as have all the info and do it by the rules of the tournament.

But then I can see into adding divisions to the existing ladder.
Shouldn't be that much of a problem, the parts I'm not clear about is how do I make the UI clear enough that different divisions exist and the game about to be queued will be played by the rules of a certain division and will effect the ELO of its division, but there are people who can help me with that.

For now it seems like the duel and regular ladders should be completely separate, and one can participate in one of them or both of them, while perhaps one can't participate in both, the lower division as well as the higher division of the regular ladder.
But I could be wrong about that, we'll see how do we want to do it with Frogo, perhaps dredknight as well, and if somebody wants to help then he is more then welcome.

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 28, 2019 06:46 PM

The page has received a big upgrade!
The Gladiator Arena is now included.
Bulya did an amazing job, i especially love how picking heroes works

I updated the original post.

Kudos to Bulya!
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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted November 28, 2019 09:54 PM

Great work!!! It looks very nice
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 29, 2019 12:05 AM

But I can't find any buttons on the home page that brings me to the pages in the screenshots
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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 29, 2019 11:09 AM

@magno

That is because you are not signed up.
I suppose the first 2 pages could be made accessible without being signed up, hero picking only makes sense when you have a match (which will requiere you to be signed up).
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 29, 2019 01:12 PM

@magno

As frogo said, you can't access them because they are accessible for logged in people, and you must sign up to get there.
Perhaps we can make some of them more accessible, like the map pool.

You suggested making a division for duel games. I can definitely do that. Is there anybody specific that I can contact to get a better understanding of what does he actually want for it?
As on one hand, I can just copy the database, make slight changes, and do a very similar site with differences in the text only for duel maps. It won't take a long time, and will be easy. But people will have to sign up to both, the regular ladder and the duel ladder (as long as they want to participate in both), as those will be two different sites.
On the other hand, I can do it as part of the main site, and let people choose if they want to participate in both ladders, or just one of them. But it will require more time, as it force changes in the database structure, the server side, and the interface.

So if one can tell me what does he actually wants for that, we can discuss what do we actually do to make it happen.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 29, 2019 07:13 PM

Alright I have created new channel on discord for duel games, we will see if something starts to move.

I think it is a better idea to have both ladders on the same website to maximize traffic, preferably both ladders are visible on homepage, if needed, made shorter but extendable with a button. I also think a clone website may be a bit confusing. Players should be able to join ladders independently for obvious reasons.
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 29, 2019 07:17 PM

Ok, if so it will take  more time, but definitely doable.

If anybody wants to help with the testing and the content (images and text), I'd be happy for some help.

Up till now Frogo did a very good job at both, testing and finding good images for the site, though more testing and help with creating content creation can always help.

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Adventuring Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted November 30, 2019 09:03 PM

If I'm interested in taking up competitive Heroes would this be a good place to start or is there somewhere better?
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44170
^ my dead proposal thread. Maybe I'll update it again someday
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44815
^ My novelization of HoMM 5

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 30, 2019 09:42 PM

quick update on a tech issue:
If you cant reach the site right now, use

heroes55ladder

Some DNS problem - will be fixed soon

@Rimgrabber

I m sure this is a good place to start. I d recommend joining the Gladiator tournament (opinion might be biased as i host it )

You can maybe check out the maps first. Those maps arent easy to play on and you might want to practice them before jumping into a match
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