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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: MMH5.5 official Ladder
Thread: MMH5.5 official Ladder
frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 03, 2019 07:36 PM
Edited by frogo at 22:45, 03 Nov 2019.

MMH5.5 official Ladder

MMH5.5 now officially has its own Ladder!

You can play ranked games with a given mappool or create an unranked challenge with what ever settings you like.
The site is connected to discord, where a bot will tell you whenever you have a match, against whom and on what map.
Maps can be downloaded straight from the website.

Just check it out and click around some (you need to sign in before you can access all its features):

heroes55ladder.com

All i can say is that its an amazing site and that i'm hyped for some Ladder matches
And of course, thanks to the person who put in so much effort into this
(He even worked on it in the morning before work ):

Bulya!

Also, as a small heads-up: It's not finished yet!
The next plan is to add a page for the Gladiator Arena (or tournaments in general),
so that everything can be found at one place.

Tell us your thoughts
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 07:08 PM

This is an interesting development, certainly for me as someone who once worked for years in complete isolation on this project, thinking that h5 was pretty much completely death.

By the time RC12c can be released I will advertise this along the way, just a few ideas if you want to attract more people

-I think there should be a separate duel ladder.

-I frequently encounter comments stating h55 is rather difficult and neutrals are hard to deal with, so maybe there should be some sort of sub division for casual players with 'strong' monster games.  

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 06, 2019 09:36 PM

I also though that perhaps separating into 2 divisions or more can be a good idea, letting people play on the Hard difficulty settings and if both agree then even the Normal one.

Frogo treated it more as a place for the hardcore people, so we left unranked challenges for those who'd rather play on lower difficulty levels.

I think at least a separate Duel ladder can be good thing to have, perhaps we can find the better maps for it so that people won't have to look for them and it will be handed for them.

And I don't mind having a division for people who are new to MMH55, or prefer playing on the lower difficulty settings.
Perhaps it will be about making sure that good players don't abuse that to beat new players so that the new players don't lose their motivation. But perhaps in case somebody doesn't lose in the lower division can be automatically promoted to the higher division with a reset to his ELO (we can set the strict rules for that if we find it necessary).

@Frogo, what do you say. For now I implemented your ideas, but I think magno has a point.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 10:18 PM

Hm, in chess you cannot increase your elo rating much by beating weak players, but you can by beating strong players. so the players in the 'premier league' consistently stay stronger.

But at the same time, a match with 'strong' neutrals between strong players is still a match against a strong opponent regardless of the weak neutrals. In the end it is the quality of the opponent that decides how much you can score. The most important thing is that maps are roughly symmetrical for fairness.

So perhaps the range for a ranked game can be much wider, like for example most ARMG templates with 2 active players and neutrals strong or very strong, experience 3 or 4, and a lot of multiplayer maps at hard difficulty or higher can work?

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 06, 2019 10:57 PM

I was worried dividing the playerbase would not be a good move as it would result in less players per division. I could be wrong about that, if more players join then.

For now i am not convinced a more "casual" division would gain a suffcient player base. I think casual players dont care about ratings or Ladders, so i thought the unranked casual game mode would be more what they want. If they then eventually feel ready for more competetive play and want to be rated aswell, they may join the ladder.

A Duel Ladder makes sense to me, as it a whole diffrent thing.


@Magno
You are correct that the difficulity is only dependent on the opponent, but the game itself changes when creeps are to weak (as they would be with 'strong' creeps).
Creeping is a big part of the heroes game and players can be diffrently skilled at it. Making creeps to weak completly erases this part of the game. It mostly turns into a Duel-mode game with a delayed duel.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 06, 2019 11:16 PM

@frogo:

Yes i think you are right about that. I have seen streams with players never using split stack or sometimes not even doing any tactics, just run into battle with archers on frontline, but likely those are not going to do multiplayer, or they have to watch streams and learn fast.

Quote:
I think at least a separate Duel ladder can be good thing to have, perhaps we can find the better maps for it so that people won't have to look for them and it will be handed for them.


well I just put a huge amount of care in the ARMG duel template to balance it very precisely and have the match parameters completely user-configurable. so I recommend starting to look there and provide feedback if needed.
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 07, 2019 08:17 AM
Edited by Bulya at 08:19, 07 Nov 2019.

ok, so for now I'm working on a page that will make the Gladiator Arena a more automated tournament, so that people can challenge other people without letting Frogo know about it, as well as have all the info and do it by the rules of the tournament.

But then I can see into adding divisions to the existing ladder.
Shouldn't be that much of a problem, the parts I'm not clear about is how do I make the UI clear enough that different divisions exist and the game about to be queued will be played by the rules of a certain division and will effect the ELO of its division, but there are people who can help me with that.

For now it seems like the duel and regular ladders should be completely separate, and one can participate in one of them or both of them, while perhaps one can't participate in both, the lower division as well as the higher division of the regular ladder.
But I could be wrong about that, we'll see how do we want to do it with Frogo, perhaps dredknight as well, and if somebody wants to help then he is more then welcome.

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