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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 25, 2019 02:47 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 02:55, 25 Nov 2019.
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Mysticism maps!
Well, we all know Mysticism is hillariously bad, probably the worst skill in the game competing with Scouting (which is still probably better), and Navigation (which is at least good in maps with lots of water). While both technically could be game-changing (Giving you the extra Spell point you needed to cast a powerful spell in the final battle, or seeing the opponent come before he could see you thus being able to escape), their uses are so niche as to be effectively nonentities in the game at large and you would pick essentially anything before them... possibly even First Aid or Eagle Eye.
But, as I have seen maps done around First Aid (You have a zombie, your zombie has to defeat enemies like Peasants and others by being healed every turn by the tent, etc.)
, how about making maps specifically required to need a good use of Mysticism to win?
- CAMPAIGN MAP USE
* A map with no accessible town for you, where your town is barred from being entered by your hero. There are no spell point replenishers like Magic Well in the map. You have a limited time to win and selected spells to cast, and the outcomes of the battle depend on CAREFULLY selecting which spells to cast to conserve spell points, and when to "spend" limited days to regain spell points. You would play as a mysticism specialist.
- RANDOM MAP TEMPLATE
with the following characteristics:
* All Mage Guilds are banned.
* High ocurrence rate for Spell-teaching Shrines (level 1-3) and Pyramids (level 5); for level 4 spells, Scrolls.
* 0% ocurrence rate for all spell-point-replenishing objects including doublers.
* Mana Vortex for Dungeon disabled.
* XL size or bigger with lots of monsters to force heroes to spend their spell points.
* Wizard's Well would be Disabled.
This would encourage players to choose Mysticism specialists and Mysticism skill when possible. It would generate some problems with certain towns as many dwellings require a specific Mage Guild level, but the alternative is making a mod or using WOG scripting to achieve similar results.
Anyways, what are your thoughts? Can Mysticism be made interesting via custom maps much as Healing Tent was in some cases?
Of course, this is no substitute for balancing and in 99% of cases Mysticism would still be a terrible, terrible skill.
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Never changing = never improving
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 25, 2019 07:37 AM |
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Mysticism is pretty good in my map and modded version of the game.
It's stuff like Adv. Town Portal, Wizard's Well, Magic Wells, Mana Vortex, Magic Springs and Altar of Mana, that ruins it.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2019 06:17 PM |
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Mysticism worse than Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid, Sorcery? For real?
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 26, 2019 12:23 AM |
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Phoenix, yopur "version" of the game doesn't count because nobnody else can play it, I will take that into account when you post a link  
Well, i didn't mention Learning, but yes, very much worse than Learning. Learning giving up to 15% more XP can help you level primary skills, which it turns out, are VERY important to deciding the outcome of a final battle in late-game. even 1 more attack and defense is 5% more damage that your army does or 5% than it takes, and that can be equivalent to hundreds of creatures.
While learning is underpowered compared to some of the most powerful skills like Necromancy or Earth Magic, it is by no means useless or obsolete. In fact it can even help level other secondary skills and thus "pay for itself" a little. Learning specialists on the long run
About the others, it's largely an academical discussion, but mysticism can COMPLETELY be rendered useless by just going to a mage guild, mana vortex, well, using a wizard's well, etc. In fact just a mana amulet already gives you equivalent to Expert mysticism, while no artifact gives you extra XP or even enchances Learning (developer oversight? :V)
, while Eagle Eye could potentially provide spells you woudn't normally have, for example, Navigation lets you outrun enemies at sea, Mysticism does essentially nothing - much like Scouting.
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Never changing = never improving
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 26, 2019 06:32 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 06:34, 26 Nov 2019.
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Also, Learning improves some level-dependent things, like specialties, so it's not only primary skills.-
PD: There is actually one way Learning can be useless, and it is when you reach max level. In HotA this is level 74, in vainilla game you can get to 74 and then skip to 88 passing 14 levels at once, and then you reset to level 0 if you clear level 88 (Source: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=11298)
However, getting to these levels requires such an implausible level of experience, it is more accurate for practical effects to say learning never stops being useful. Plus, if you reset to level 0, and get to "negative experience levels" if you keep getting primary skills it is useful anyways 
Too bad there is no Learning specialist. Phoenix guy, care to fix that? :V
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Never changing = never improving
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 26, 2019 07:30 AM |
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Ehm you do know the most you will ever get out of Learning is 1 level right? Even if you started with Expert Learning you would get a 1 level advantage. Now that my friend is useless.
There is a Learning specialist in HotA, but she is not very good nor interesting.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted November 26, 2019 03:20 PM |
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I prefer Heroes 5 change of Learning:
15% xp boost on hero + every 2 levels hero get random +1 boost for any 4 primary skill.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 26, 2019 05:28 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
I prefer Heroes 5 change of Learning:
15% xp boost on hero + every 2 levels hero get random +1 boost for any 4 primary skill.
I second this mechanic
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 26, 2019 05:58 PM |
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Lol, +15% exp doesn't do anything.
Much more useful would be if it lowered the experience threshold for a new level by whatever percent. This way the bonus can keep relevant despite the exponential growth.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 27, 2019 08:52 AM |
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The problem with this premise is that it seriously weakens magic as a whole. I mean, might heroes already do pretty well in the late battle, so this is going to lead to them completely dominating.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 27, 2019 11:31 AM |
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gatecrasher said:
Lol, +15% exp doesn't do anything.
Much more useful would be if it lowered the experience threshold for a new level by whatever percent. This way the bonus can keep relevant despite the exponential growth.
Lowering the experience needed by a certain percentage has the same effect as boosting the experience gain by a certain percentage.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2019 06:51 PM |
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Maurice said:
gatecrasher said:
Lowering the experience needed by a certain percentage has the same effect as boosting the experience gain by a certain percentage.
Oh my, that's true. How embarrasing!
It could get useful with an exponential formula (or a must-need pick for longer games). It remains a boring concept, trading in a secondary skill for primary skills.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 02, 2019 08:40 PM |
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Maurice said:
Lowering the experience needed by a certain percentage has the same effect as boosting the experience gain by a certain percentage.
Thank you, Maurice. Was trying to remember high school but I had that idea...
The only way I see to make Learning at the Good Skills level is to implement Mentorism. In that case the sacrifice of one slot would mean a boost for the entire team. Could compensate.
Otherwise, who cares if it doubled experience? 30% more melee damage or movement would still be better.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 03, 2019 10:39 AM |
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I still think Learning should boost the effects of some other Secondary Skills by 5, 10 and 15% or something like that. Or maybe increase Primary Skills by some percentage.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2019 12:46 PM |
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Maurice said:
...Or maybe increase Primary Skills by some percentage.
this
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