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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How would you rank hero classes?
Thread: How would you rank hero classes? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted January 07, 2020 07:20 AM

Otuken said:
The most important thing is secondary skill distributions. That's why I put even the worst barbarian over neela because she will most likely end up with worse secondary skills than these barbarians.
yes, but queens and titans are incredibly hard to take down (a lot of HPs and good defense), especially on armorer specialists, so I think the devs have purposely given Neela "5hitty" skills, as not to make her a definite winner. But anyway in WoG all skills are good, so playing Neela is enjoyable
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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 07, 2020 06:32 PM

not all barbs worst than Neela,

the ogre special with resistance is worse.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted January 08, 2020 01:23 AM

She is still an Alchemist which is the worst might class.

Barbarians have higher chance to get these;

Archery, Leadership, Offense, Tactics, Logistics.

While an Alchemist will have higher chance to get Learning, First Aid, Mysticism, Scholar, Sorcery, Eagle Eye, Estates.


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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 08, 2020 05:28 AM

Otuken said:
She is still an Alchemist which is the worst might class.

Barbarians have higher chance to get these;

Archery, Leadership, Offense, Tactics, Logistics.

While an Alchemist will have higher chance to get Learning, First Aid, Mysticism, Scholar, Sorcery, Eagle Eye, Estates.



but it wouldnt be too difficult for Neela to learn the useful skills.

any hero who start with 2 skills can easily build himself towards player preference.

the most difficult heroes to build up are Tazar, Crag, and Sir Mullich because they start with advanced skill, and so there is a chance for bad skill at lvl 3.

but most other heroes who start with 2 skills, its almost guaranteed to get whatever SS they want. Tyraxxor can go up to lvl 6 with his offense+Tactics, and if he was offered nothing useful, then he can take wisdom and role his chance again until lvl 9.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 08, 2020 09:59 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 10:02, 08 Jan 2020.

Orc said:

but it wouldnt be too difficult for Neela to learn the useful skills.
any hero who start with 2 skills can easily build himself towards player preference.
the most difficult heroes to build up are Tazar, Crag, and Sir Mullich because they start with advanced skill, and so there is a chance for bad skill at lvl 3.

He is right. You have way less chances to get a reasonable development from an Alchemist then from a Barbarian despise the advanced Offense. Mullich is the exception here, he easily gets mediocre skills like Artillery or Water Magic that can screw development.
You can test this easily, put the four of them in front of Pandora Boxes with 500.000 XP (this is level 30) and see what you got. Repeat the test at least ten times.
If you do it, please post the results here.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 08, 2020 10:47 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:49, 08 Jan 2020.

Or you can simply look here:



vs.



Alchemist has the highest chance to be offered the worst skill in the game. That means you will sometimes get Learning+other useless skill (like Eagle Eye) offered because the preferential skills WILL pop up sooner or later.

Another advantage of Beastmaster: high preference for Earth Magic. With Fire banned, at level 4 you have 50% chance to be offered Earth. Alchemist only has 30% chance.
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 08, 2020 11:29 AM

The hero ranks aren't exist. So I don't know.

If Alchemist strategy belongs Learning. You need legion paradise from mapmaker. You reach over 6000 level. But under 27 level, you can pass Learning.

Why? Example I casted Slow rarely. I like speedy opponent. Because I have a own tactics. If he casts Slow me, so I give an answer Prayer, Cure, Dispel or Haste. I know how. Therefore I understand also skills.

An odd thread??

Ok I tell you, I pick Learning, if strong or legion paradise.

And then? Alchemist could be the best hero. No. The spirit of game.

Witch? Armorer! Really strong hero. Elementalist has poor militaria.

Do I meant Witch is better hero. No. The same thing as Learning. Elementalist learns 4 tomes. Powerful!

Depend on map. And how you've played times with designed map like legion paradise. So you can learn Homm.

Normal map? Pick next skill for normal map.

Such!
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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 08, 2020 11:39 AM
Edited by Orc at 12:47, 08 Jan 2020.

even if alch was offered bad skills, he doesnt have to accept it. my point was, the starting SS is much more important than the role chance, because the role chance can be overcome if you start with few skills.

I tried neela 2 times, and here is what I got:

1-) Logistics, Earth, Wisdom, Archery, Tactics, Offense, Scholar armor, air magic (I accidentally went over the 8 skill limit)
2-)3 magic schools, logistic, armor, offense, wisdom, schoolar
3-)got good skills until lvl 17. at lvl 17 I was offered exp. air or basic fire. I went exp air. then I was forced between scouting+resistance. (If I was playing seriously I should take fire magic rather than gamble 2 basic SS for alch)
4-)I rejected offense twice. I ended up with: schollar, amorer, Earth, Water, archery, wisdom, at 17: leadership or resistance, at 21 basic air or basic tactics, I got tactiics.
5-) water, offense, earth, wisdom, logistics, Tactics.
6-) Air, tactics, water, offense, log, wisdom (never was offered earth or archery, at 21 was stuck between learning and wisdom.)

maybe I was lucky because on all my trials I had EarthMagic at lvl 4. in 5-) I got offered water magic. but I was never offered air first. that was weird.  (even though I first went to main menu, but I havent restarted the whole game.exe) Edit: nvm with few more tests I got offered air at lvl4 in trial 6-)

Schoolar does come to hurt Neela SS build, but my point is, she would still be far better than krellion (the resistance barb), and also better than tyraxor becuz even though he might have perfect skills, her special makes up for that.


there is one disadvatnage for Neela though, that she has to take wisdom at lvl 6 becuz she might be offered trash skills later. with barbs, you can make your wisdom wait until lvl 12, and usually still win the gamble.

I see pros usually like to go Expert first, but for my playstyle, I kinda take the SS I like most of the time, and so I wont master everything until lvl 22 or something (but my playstyle is the correct style when playing alchemists.)



Edit: though there is an aspect we didnt discuss: the primary stats.

krellion will certainly have more attck/def. how much of that will be offset by Neela specialty? I still think Neela will be better than Krellion, though she might not be much better than tyraxor I must admit. she might even be worse. Now I need to dig up that thread who gives us the average stats at lvl 10 and at other level (20 or somethign)

Edit: this discussion is also influenced by Magic schools prefs. I do preffer water of air

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 08, 2020 01:09 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:19, 08 Jan 2020.

Doomforge said:
Or you can simply look here:

I know but I preferred to suggest the test because I could predict this argument
Orc said:
even if alch was offered bad skills, he doesnt have to accept it. my point was, the starting SS is much more important than the role chance, because the role chance can be overcome

Of course, if you're looking for Water barbarians aren't a good bet...
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
posted January 08, 2020 03:52 PM

Or fire magic for either rangers or beastmasters.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted January 08, 2020 06:29 PM

Do most players agree Barbarians are the best hero class in the game?

Are beastmasters as good as barbarians or overlords-demoniacs?

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 08, 2020 06:31 PM

@Orc
Its not just what skills your get, its also when you get them. It makes a lot of difference if you get Earth magic at lvl 4 or at lvl 21.
Alchemists have low chance to get Tactics, yet tower army is slow (top speed 11) and therefore weak to tactics + mass haste rush on turn 1. Lets say you fight castle on grass. If castle player has tactics + mass haste all castle army will play before your tower army and will be able to attack at will. Even the slowest unit - halberdier has 5 speed ( 6 on grass) + 5 speed from mass haste = 11 speed total. And if casle player attacks 1st halberdier will move before titans and master ginies.
In other words, even with neela you may be in deep waters if you dot get tactics.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 08, 2020 08:16 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 20:17, 08 Jan 2020.

Otuken said:
Do most players agree Barbarians are the best hero class in the game?

Are beastmasters as good as barbarians or overlords-demoniacs?


I prefer Beastmasters because of high their chance to get Earth Magic, tbh. But they are both great.

Zaio-Baio said:
@Orc
Alchemists have low chance to get Tactics,


And average chance for Archery which is crucial for the Tower lineup.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 08, 2020 10:30 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:31, 08 Jan 2020.

Zaio-Baio said:
Even the slowest unit - halberdier has 5 speed ( 6 on grass) + 5 speed from mass haste = 11 speed total. And if casle player attacks 1st halberdier will move before titans and master ginies.


@Doomforge How did you let this one pass?

Nope, if two units on opposing sides have the same speed the player who played last gets the turn, i.e. either Titans or Master Genies will play after the Marksmen then the Halberdiers will get the turn, then the Tower creature who didn't played yet will get it.
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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 08, 2020 11:28 PM

I was talking about turn 1.

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2020 11:10 AM
Edited by Orc at 12:10, 09 Jan 2020.

bloodsucker said:

Of course, if you're looking for Water barbarians aren't a good bet...


Im pretty sure you can also cuold you alch the way you like, wheather you want air/earth or earth/water.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 09, 2020 11:23 AM

Stronghold has excellent Fire too. Depend on hero like Zubin. Why? Stronghold should have at least two tomes. Take Logistics, Offense, Armorer, etc
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 09, 2020 12:09 PM

Doomforge said:
Otuken said:
Do most players agree Barbarians are the best hero class in the game?

Are beastmasters as good as barbarians or overlords-demoniacs?


I prefer Beastmasters because of high their chance to get Earth Magic, tbh. But they are both great.

But bestmasters are completely useless for creeping with their 0 attack so they will always be slower before that (maybe) faster exp earth.
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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2020 12:16 PM

JoonasTo said:
Doomforge said:
Otuken said:
Do most players agree Barbarians are the best hero class in the game?

Are beastmasters as good as barbarians or overlords-demoniacs?


I prefer Beastmasters because of high their chance to get Earth Magic, tbh. But they are both great.

But bestmasters are completely useless for creeping with their 0 attack so they will always be slower before that (maybe) faster exp earth.


If they have offense its like 6 attack. They also use wyvern which is stronger than birds. Gnolls is also stronger than goblins, and lizards are stronger than orcs.

Fortess isnt bad early game at all. Wyverns have good attack at start, which compensate low attck for BMs

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 09, 2020 01:28 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:31, 09 Jan 2020.

JoonasTo said:
But bestmasters are completely useless for creeping with their 0 attack so they will always be slower before that (maybe) faster exp earth.


Not really, it's not like doing 15% more damage with Lizards and Gnolls really is gamechanging. Being able somewhat reliably to get earth at level 4 seems more important.I mean, huge attack works best if you have good ranged units since you can reliably gun down many slower creeps. Once you come to a point where you have to trade blows, I can't really say DEF is any worse than ATT. And with 2 wyverns you will have to trade blows sometimes.

Also they have 30% attack growth, same as Death Knight. Ranger, Knight, Overlord, etc. have 35% attack growth, so it's not really a huge difference TBH. The Barbarian stands out with 55% and 4 base ATT, the rest is more or less similar.

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