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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Building carryover heroes - two questions in one
Thread: Building carryover heroes - two questions in one
osmin
osmin


Hired Hero
posted April 12, 2020 11:59 AM

Building carryover heroes - two questions in one

1. I'm sure you all know and love Reed, Lord Landrew's trusted knight from An Unusual Betrayal. I'm sure most of you know that he's also a part of the final scenario, captaining the Teal player up in the territory of Gavin Magnus. I'm even sure that the better part of this community knows that if Reed is captured and then freed by you if Gavin Magnus should be out of town, you now have a fourth high-level hero to accompany Emilia, Solymr (not Solmyr!) and Kodge. The question here is how high Reed should be leveled after you free him in the fifth scenario? Too high and he will break the game by overpowering Gavin Magnus on his own, not high enough and he will not be of any use to you whatsoever. Is somewhere around lv. 20 the sweet spot, or is leveling him all the way to lv. 30 with no magic resistance a possibility?

2. The other carryover hero who changes flags between scenarios is Pete Girly. Focusing on Stealth is a given, to make him useful to you in the first three scenarios and useless to the AI in the fourth, but what else? Is a Guildmaster the way to go?

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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted April 21, 2020 02:42 PM

 It doesn't matter, it's not hard to win whether you level them up with the most broken skills or not, granted you at least level up your main heroes a little. You can just not give them combat skills if you want to have easy time. I would give them combat and magic resistance just to spice things a little.
 The thing with campaigns in heroes 4 is that you after 1st scenario it becomes easy in almost every case, after 2nd it becomes a cakewalk. You can manage ~15 weekly growth of level 4 creatures consistently as a solo hero, much more if you manage to gather a few creatures yourself. This is a thing that bothers me too much difficulty drops like an anvi, it won't matter that you play GM difficulty or not, again, 1st scenario is almost always an only challenge you'll have.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 11, 2020 03:50 AM

Good point Alf, I will take that into account to make remastered campaigns more challenging in my "greatest mod".

Would you think this is better accomplished by reducing hero level caps or by creating better enemies?
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted July 04, 2020 03:25 PM

NimoStar said:
Good point Alf, I will take that into account to make remastered campaigns more challenging in my "greatest mod".

Would you think this is better accomplished by reducing hero level caps or by creating better enemies?


I'd say the latter. Hitting level cap early on could easily turn out to be annoying and ruin game fun.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 04, 2020 10:10 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 22:11, 04 Aug 2020.

Well, not everything in the world of fun is levelling :V

The problem with creating more challenging enemies is that if the challenge is too much, you punish non optimization of choices, so a powerful enemy may turn to be basically undefeatable.

Walking a fine line...

I may add to the enemy opponents that curse you, such as weak heroes with spells (including creature neutrals), in that case you need to invest in magic defenses, what do you think?
____________
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https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod/downloads
(Also biggest of only two 2 mods for HOMM IV)

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 06, 2020 10:13 AM

NimoStar said:
Well, not everything in the world of fun is levelling :V

The problem with creating more challenging enemies is that if the challenge is too much, you punish non optimization of choices, so a powerful enemy may turn to be basically undefeatable.


Obviously mapmakers have been known to create certain map or scenarios where only 1 solutions works, but forcing a player to choose certain skills or spell combos to defeat an opponent may be limiting to some or rewarding to others. I guess balancing that challenge is making sure that your enemy can be defeated in more than just 1 way, which is just down to tons of testing and balancing.

Indeed Walking a fine line...

NimoStar said:

I may add to the enemy opponents that curse you, such as weak heroes with spells (including creature neutrals), in that case you need to invest in magic defenses, what do you think?



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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 06, 2020 07:05 PM

Quote:
Obviously mapmakers have been known to create certain map or scenarios where only 1 solutions works, but forcing a player to choose certain skills or spell combos to defeat an opponent may be limiting to some or rewarding to others. I guess balancing that challenge is making sure that your enemy can be defeated in more than just 1 way, which is just down to tons of testing and balancing.

Indeed Walking a fine line...


In one scenario campaign, it is somewhat easier. But in multiple scenario campaigns, as which is this question, the carryover hero will be most often already locked into a path.

FOrcing players to restart the whole campaign because their carryover hero from 4 missions has the wrong skills would be overly punishing for players. What's worse still, somke may not even realize there's no way to win with an "unoptimized" buid and give up on the campaign entirely.
____________
Discover H4 Greatest Mod!
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod/downloads
(Also biggest of only two 2 mods for HOMM IV)

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