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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Poll] Which town would you like to see implemented in HoMM3?
Thread: [Poll] Which town would you like to see implemented in HoMM3? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 16, 2021 02:23 PM
Edited by blob2 at 14:26, 16 Jan 2021.

FirePaladin said:
Quote:
Unfrotunately with things as they are now (HotA team situation) it might be hard to get more out Heroes 3 lore...

I'm not sure what you meant with this tbh. Not like HotA itself was great on lore to begin with.


Well, their factions are based on lore and are created pretty much like Heroes 3 did it: a mix of M&M lore and mythcial/fantasy beasts. Imo they are as close to the orignal games creative process as it can be for non-creators.

And I might be wrong here, but I believe there were some subtle signals from them that there might actually be more stuff like Vori elves or other nations etc in HotA.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 16, 2021 02:38 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 14:39, 16 Jan 2021.

Anyone can do a lore-faithful town tbh, it's just that among other things, most people like to do whatever faction concept they like the most. Plus, HotA itself can't risk like that.

Isn't HotA supposed to happen on the Enroth planet anyway? Ofc Vori is there too.
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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted January 16, 2021 07:36 PM

FirePaladin said:
Anyone can do a lore-faithful town tbh, it's just that among other things, most people like to do whatever faction concept they like the most. Plus, HotA itself can't risk like that.

Isn't HotA supposed to happen on the Enroth planet anyway? Ofc Vori is there too.

Technically HotA have already gone outside the world of Enroth, but the Elemental Plane of Water having traversable connections to and from Enroth is not really new. Of course, factions emigrating from other worlds isn't a new thing to Heroes, that goes all the way back to Heroes I.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 16, 2021 07:38 PM

I know.
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Winston
Winston


Adventuring Hero
posted January 24, 2021 10:39 AM

Ruins, Oasis.
But personally I wish Sanctuary from HoMMVI could be made in Heroes 3. That was the only good thing to come out of that game.

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xericsin
xericsin


Famous Hero
posted January 24, 2021 07:54 PM

"implement" in what sense?

Aren't these towns already done and playable?

You mean port them to era and replace existing ones? or add new town?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 24, 2021 08:18 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 20:20, 24 Jan 2021.

Well, VCMI is pretty much unplayable/not played, ERA's town support is s****y rn as well (and will continue to be so for years). As I specified in the main post, it was something I did mainly just for fun. People can take it as they want, either a SoD or HotA implementation, but more wild views go as well.

Oh, and I gotta mention, I partially meant it as in finishing the town too. All towns presented can't be considered truly finished, as their quality is lower than the original HoMM3's at this moment (perhaps with the exception of Courtyard, but it could use some polishing on the town screen; literally its only downside).
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Undeadgamer62
Undeadgamer62


Adventuring Hero
posted January 25, 2021 04:55 AM

FirePaladin said:
Well, VCMI is pretty much unplayable/not played, ERA's town support is s****y rn as well (and will continue to be so for years). As I specified in the main post, it was something I did mainly just for fun. People can take it as they want, either a SoD or HotA implementation, but more wild views go as well.

Oh, and I gotta mention, I partially meant it as in finishing the town too. All towns presented can't be considered truly finished, as their quality is lower than the original HoMM3's at this moment (perhaps with the exception of Courtyard, but it could use some polishing on the town screen; literally its only downside).


I'm glad I'm not the only one who's had a hard time getting VCMI t o work on my system. I'm sure it would be incredibly hard to get VCMI-style town support to work in ERA. What I'd like to see would be a mod that provided support for additional town types by giving players the ability to pick a new town type and a mechanism for substituting it for one of the existing ones. Because people's playing styles differ, it would be difficult to just dump an existing town, but if we had a flexible way to swap towns in and out, substituting a new town type for one of the old ones, that would be wonderful. Then it would become practical for people to develop these basic town designs for ERA.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 25, 2021 12:01 PM

I personally despise things such as town replacement. If you do something, then go all the way to the "finish line".

This is just my view anyway, I'm not condemning anyone who doesn't agree with it.
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 26, 2021 10:03 AM

FirePaladin said:
I personally despise things such as town replacement. If you do something, then go all the way to the "finish line".


Yep, that is also one of the reasons why I'm so approving of what HotA teams does. I grew to love every town in H3, even the broadly criticized Conflux, and I won't accept asset swapping as far as towns go (reworking units like Orcs is a bit of a different matter, and I'm not always fond of it, but I can accept it).

I'm especially happy with how HotA team handles Factory - an original idea but one that (FOR ME) looks more in spirit of how I perceive the game. And don't start the age old "Sci-fi Factory is part of the lore" discussion because it won't sway me

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 26, 2021 01:22 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:23, 26 Jan 2021.

Factory is not a replacement of Forge anyway, so there isn't much of a reason to start such a discussion (even if the latter is much more grounded and backed up in the lore itself; that's one more reason why I think HotA went with the middle of Jadame desert for Factory, so they won't be troubled with lore conflicts I guess and just do their thing once).
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 26, 2021 01:45 PM
Edited by blob2 at 13:48, 26 Jan 2021.

FirePaladin said:
Factory is not a replacement of Forge anyway, so there isn't much of a reason to start such a discussion (even if the latter is much more grounded and backed up in the lore itself; that's one more reason why I think HotA went with the middle of Jadame desert for Factory, so they won't be troubled with lore conflicts I guess and just do their thing once).


Damn I made a typo (meant: "Sci-fi Factory Forge is part of the lore"). I meant Factory could be considered "Forge replacement" but it's not. And HotA team even confirmed it:

"Now, talking about Forge - it would perhaps be a good time to finally clarify the situation. Contrary to the popular misconception, Forge had never been officially announced as a town in HotA and never planned down to any kind of a roadmap. All Forge-related activity was limited to sporadic individual efforts of some crew members dating back to the period from 2011 to 2013, taken completely at their own behest. Some of those materials were published by their creators, like the town screen by Don_ko, but no further developments have happened on that front since. Thus, speaking about changed plans would be a mistake. Factory is new plans, not a replacement of old ones."

What I've meant is that I feel like it's a good way to tackle a "techy faction" theme, but I don't want to start another discussion why "Sci-fi Forge" should happen in H3...

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted January 27, 2021 04:17 AM

The Factory does have one more connection to the Forge than the techy theme, and a fairly strong one, but it is one that touches on why despite sci-fi being part of the lore, the same is not true for the Forge town - the planned leader for the Forge has been confirmed to be an important figure in the Factory (at the very least its associated campaign), something made easier by the Forge's establishment canonically having been rendered practically impossible.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 27, 2021 10:43 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 10:49, 27 Jan 2021.

Kastore was not the planned leader (at least as a playable hero) for Forge, just like Lucifer Kreegan wasn't.
And again, this is a fan-mod anyway. It still has enough contradictions in the lore, like halflings migrating to Jadame (it is known they migrated to Bracada instead, soon after H3's events).

Also, whether AB featured Forge or Kreegans, that wouldn't influence the end result at all anyway. Besides, having Factory with some techy stuff without "heavenly" aid (like the Forge) is near impossible in itself, at this point in Enrothian history (or at least, the canon does not seem to like that; this universe's games were also focused on restoring technology rather than developing it).

So no, Factory is nearly as canonically impossible as you call Forge to be, to a certain extent. At most, one could say it could exist somewhere in the middle of nowhere just like pretty much any fan town. Again, so could another Forge exist, with some guys having somehow activated another Heavenly Forge.

Just trying to be objective about it.
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 27, 2021 12:12 PM

FirePaladin said:
Just trying to be objective about it.


And what about units? I believe at least Worms and Coatls are something that we can trace back in the games lore (although in different form probably)?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 27, 2021 12:15 PM

I wouldn't really barge in about creatures, I know HotA has been sensitive about that subject especially. Well, the worms and couatls could definitely exist I guess, even though none of them appeared on Enroth, the latter did, but in another form.

Also, technically, most D&D creatures could be featured in Enroth, as it was a main source of inspiration for the game.
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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 27, 2021 12:25 PM

FirePaladin said:
Also, technically, most D&D creatures could be featured in Enroth, as it was a main source of inspiration for the game.


Yep, I know that. I wanted to know your stance about it

Do you guys prefer "lore heavy" or at least towns with nods to teh lore or it doesn't matter?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 27, 2021 12:33 PM

Personally, I'd like to have most lore towns done first. Not sure what to say about towns with nods to the lore though tbh.
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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted January 27, 2021 12:37 PM

FirePaladin said:
Kastore was not the planned leader (at least as a playable hero) for Forge, just like Lucifer Kreegan wasn't.
And again, this is a fan-mod anyway. It still has enough contradictions in the lore, like halflings migrating to Jadame (it is known they migrated to Bracada instead, soon after H3's events).

Also, whether AB featured Forge or Kreegans, that wouldn't influence the end result at all anyway. Besides, having Factory with some techy stuff without "heavenly" aid (like the Forge) is near impossible in itself, at this point in Enrothian history (or at least, the canon does not seem to like that; this universe's games were also focused on restoring technology rather than developing it).

So no, Factory is nearly as canonically impossible as you call Forge to be, to a certain extent. At most, one could say it could exist somewhere in the middle of nowhere just like pretty much any fan town. Again, so could another Forge exist, with some guys having somehow activated another Heavenly Forge.

Just trying to be objective about it.

Kastore was the planned leader of the faction the Forge represented. Eg. he was the planned leader of the Forge, even if he wasn't going to be a hero - just like Lucifer Kreegan.
What AB did was confirm that the canonical outcome of MM7 was the good, Bracada-aligned path. That put Kastore's crew down a member, humbled just after launching a coup to take over Deyja, and denied the tools to restore the Heavenly Forge he had available. Someone else could perhaps have activated another Heavenly Forge, but the lineup and design of the Forge town was clearly leaning on it being a Deyjan offshoot, so such a Heavenly Forge-based town would look pretty different to AB!Forge.
As to developing technology instead of restoring it, uhm. MM6, 7 and 8 all have examples of continued technological and magical development (the two can overlap, after all). Agar's presence is a hiccup, but a combination of the technologies shown throughout the games and assistance from people with experience with "heavenly" technology (like, say, the Terrans) could definitely get you close to something Factory-like without a Heavenly Forge being involved. The halflings, eh, not like they can only be found in one place anyway.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 27, 2021 12:40 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:11, 27 Jan 2021.

Factory is still a stretch nevertheless. I wouldn't go claiming it is more lore friendly than Forge at least (I didn't dare touch the creatures' position in the canon either lol, I got reasons to not attempt that).

And the outcome was still gonna be the same anyway, again. You never saw Kastore again after AB (or any of his fellas), just like you wouldn't after Forge AB.

Edit: I never said Forge is officially canon right now, but hey, it was canonically 100% possible, compared to Factory.

@blob2

That was referencing a certain unpleasant incident in the past, and it wasn't necessarily about the couatls. I just don't feel like digging it out, especially here, and I'm pretty sure nobody does either.
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