Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Galthran VS Shakti (HotA)
Thread: Galthran VS Shakti (HotA)
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 29, 2021 08:14 PM

Galthran VS Shakti (HotA)

Hi guys

I was thinking about Dungeon and Necropolis and Shakti in SoD started with an average of 105 troglodytes, assuming he started with all 3 stacks. In HotA this was decreased to an average of 75.
Galthran starts with an average of 75 skels, but he is mostly banned in HotA.

I assume Galthran with 75 skels is still better than Shakti with 105 trogs?

I don't really know where I am going with this, I guess I am asking if the -10 or -30 trogs in Shakti's case was really necessary and the Galthran ban was necessary??
Maybe they would balance each other out, if Shakti comes with more trogs and Galthran is allowed, both being very strong heroes though?
Or you think HotA made the right call?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted April 29, 2021 09:29 PM
Edited by firespirit at 21:33, 29 Apr 2021.

The difference is that Dungeon doesn't get to farm Troglodytes as Necropolis does skeletons with Skeleton Transformer and Necromancy. This makes Galthran's specialty more impactful as the skeletons' numbers can grow over time. Typically in PvP random maps, Troglodytes are early game units that get replaced with stronger units such as wyverns and angels from creature banks. This is why Shakti's specialty loses usefulness as the game goes on. The lack of skeletons in Galthran's starting army is mitigated by the access to Skeleton Transformer. You actually get 100 + of them to start with if you use that building.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fanofheroes
fanofheroes


Famous Hero
posted April 29, 2021 09:31 PM

In my opinion, the ban on Galthran is simply out of spite for those who don't play Necropolis.  The necros are my fav, and I don't even use Galthran.  Sure he's great at a high level, but the game is boring when you march a massive skeleton army to win a game. And if you assemble the cloak of the undead king, suddenly Moandor seems much better to use.

I think the reduction on Shakiti's numbers are similarly out of spite.  I think her increased trog numbers are ok because the units are so pathetic compared to other level 1 units (except for gnolls and goblins).  Centaurs and Halberdiers are almost twice the health.  Master gremlins can shoot, Sprites are quick and have no retaliation.  Its only gnolls and goblins that in the same range as skeletons and trogs, except they can be blinded.  But who would waste a blind spell on them? lol.  So I think the designers intended to balance the starting level 1's by giving more units to Shakiti, and skeleton specialty for galthran.  If anything I'd like to see a balance for goblins and gnolls like increasing their starting numbers too, instead of reducing galthran and shakiti's numbers.



I think balance is key.  Almost half of the factions has a level 1 hero specialty.  Personally i'd rather see that every race has heroes specializing in 1-6 level units. There's no centaur, halberdier, pixi, or gremlin specialist.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 29, 2021 09:42 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 22:07, 29 Apr 2021.

@fanofheroes

Yup, I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Starting gnolls was actually increased in HotA, in SoD there was only 10-20, in HotA it's 15-25.
I also would like to see the missing level 1-6 creature specialists.
We are missing:
Pikemen, centaur, gremlin, medusa, pixie and air elemental. Galthran and Derek might be available, but Tark is not, but nixes seems to be OP enough already or at least give Tark a crap skill, like First Aid or Ballistics, instead of Armorer.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
purerogue
purerogue


Known Hero
posted April 29, 2021 09:45 PM

I balance across all lvl1-7 creature production so that at any lvl they are 'roughly' equal; no more it takes 10 goblin/gnoll dwellings to equal a lvl7 dwelling. So my lvl7s are like 100hp or so, more like H2.. that also why i don't play Hota.
I can't stand thes streamer/youtuber playing the same ol map for the 1000th time like King's Bounty, thinking they are geniuses because they beat ONE other person, wtf.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted April 30, 2021 02:22 PM

Not sure if I understand the point of this thread but I would like to add few things:

- Note that Shakti wasn't just starting with 105 trogs on average, but rather the correct number was around 150+. This comes from the other hero you can hire + the creatures available in your town.

- Galthran was not and isn't starting with "just" 75 skeletons. If you play as him, you should always build the skeleton transformer on day 1. This allows you to have Galthran's army of 75 skellies, your secondary army of around 30 more (sac zombies, wraiths you should keep), then the other random hero can bring maybe another 30 skellies  to you, and finally you can purchase your town's skeletons of 12, and maybe even transform the available walking dead as well, giving you 8 more. So, on average we're talking around 150 skeletons you can have before leaving your town.

Both heroes are extremely good, maybe the two strongest creature specialist in the game.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
posted April 30, 2021 02:42 PM

I honestly don't like ShakTi. From a rational standpoint, I know the starting army is powerful, but it just feels like such a waste to have a specialization that doesn't matter for most of the game. TBH I'd rather use Dace, or better yet Gunther.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 01, 2021 02:43 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 02:48, 01 May 2021.

@Hourglass

Yes I know you can get much more skels and trogs from day 1, I was just talking about how many each bring initially.

Galthran is very good and relevant for the whole game. Shakti probably most in the early game for all the trogs he brings and maybe his two good starting skills, you tend to lose level 1 creatures easily though, unless Galthran because of Necromancy.

Still I wonder if Galthran really needs to be banned when Crag Hack, Tazar, Grindan etc. are still as good as always...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted May 01, 2021 06:31 AM

Those numbers of "you can get more" apply to every hero, not just gathran and shakti.

Troglodytes are squishy and slow. Bringing your troglodyte army with you slows your progress. Their growth even with the horde building isn't really impressive.

Shakti is a wate of a starting hero IMO.

If you want only early game advantage you should take a powerful magic hero such as the meteor shower specialist Dungeon has.
____________
Never changing = never improving

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 01, 2021 09:02 AM

NimoStar said:
If you want only early game advantage you should take a powerful magic hero such as the meteor shower specialist Dungeon has.

Yes also a good example or Thant or Luna.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 01, 2021 01:25 PM

Phoenix4ever said:

Still I wonder if Galthran really needs to be banned when Crag Hack, Tazar, Grindan etc. are still as good as always...


Like I said earlier in some post, the Galthran ban starts make some sense when you think it as a part of nerfing the Necropolis.

Btw, spell casters ain't really that turbo. They're most certainly not the worst and have their own advantages, but they usually cast a single spell, and then they're out of usage until you they visit town etc. The advantage of having an actual army is that multiple heroes can use them too, allowing you to do fights in multiple places during your turn.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 02, 2021 01:41 AM
Edited by Zaio-Baio at 01:53, 02 May 2021.

Guys, Shakti is very strong. He has a great starting army + great starting skills + great skills on level up.

Also i want to point out that Shakti can open red dragon dwelling on day 1. Then you buy 1 red dragon from it and also 1 more red dragon from portal of summoning and you have 2 red dragons on day 1 and a very easy game. The way to open red dragon dwelling is to use tactics to tempt the red dragons to attack a single trog stack, then take the retaliation from the red dragons with another single trog stack AND then use your big trog stack to attack the red dragons from the back. After that put another 1 unit trog stack right next to the big trog stack and the red dragons. When the red dragons turn comes they will attack the single trog stack that is next to your big trog stack from the wrong angle and will not manage to get a breath attack and damage your big stack of trogs. In other words the red dragons will waste their turn attacking a 1 unit stack instead of your big stack. Next turn do the same - take retal with 1 trog, then attack the red dragons with your big stack from the back, then put 1 trog next to the red dragons and your trogs. This way we trick the red dragons to attack only 1 unit stacks while we hit them repeatedly with our big trog stack. So we should win the fight without too many loses. After that we use our 2 red dragons and the remaining trogs to open hives, experimental shops, pickets, conservatories and so on from day 1.

So Shakti is a very strong hero in hota, esp on maps where lvl 6-7 dwellings are available in starting zone.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted May 02, 2021 06:25 AM



I add on one matter yet. HotA Team has fool to nerfed, when G grows a skeletons. But HotA Team built already. G is banned hero. Dialog: if hero has Sprites, Pikemen, etc what is HotA Team responsible for?! Banned? Aha. No allowed creature bonuses.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread »
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0393 seconds