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Heroes Community > Volcanic Wastelands > Thread: WHY PIONEER NEUROSURGEON WILDER PENFIELD SAID THE MIND IS MORE THAN THE BRAIN
Thread: WHY PIONEER NEUROSURGEON WILDER PENFIELD SAID THE MIND IS MORE THAN THE BRAIN This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:17 PM

Minion said:
fred79 said:


minion argues with a reporter just doing their job. more at 11.


I laughed out loud


now see, this doesn't work. you previously posted asking for my credentials, then you deleted that post and posted this instead. that's dishonest, little buddy.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:21 PM

Yeah, credential for being a reporter, which was an obvious joke.

Then it got messed up because the (del) thing went over everything I posted and it was not worth the effort to clean it up as it wasn't that funny a joke, so I deleted the whole post.

You thougt I was serious, lol?

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:25 PM

yeah, i saw that. it even nixed your sig, which i thought was weird. but you could have just fixed it, and your post would have retained it's integrity.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:32 PM

I have no idea how seriously you take this board, but there is literally no "integrity" lost if this message gets deleted.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:34 PM

Or this.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:34 PM

i meant the integrity of your post. the standards you apply to them individually.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 30, 2021 11:36 PM

Ok again:

Then show your credentials mr.scientist (reference to South Park) mr. journalist.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 31, 2021 12:28 AM

*shows credentials*

there. satisfied?

now let me get back to my journalism, officer.

*snorts derisively*

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2021 03:27 AM

The road so far:

0 counterarguments

Face it, people, we are not meat robots
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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted June 01, 2021 09:27 AM

Heh...

Gandalf196 said:
Face it, people, we are not meat robots


We sort of are, though...

With a metric ton of bugs in hardware, firmware, and software.

Not what I'd call an intelligent design...

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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2021 09:34 AM

The only counter arguments you’ll need are in the first post. Claiming a magical, super-natural soul by the sheer argument of “we can not stimulate it” is so absurd, it will only convince people motivated by religion trying to justify their mythology. There is nothing that suggests our conscience is something more than a neurological process and there is nothing that suggests it can not be. To imply that your mind is made of something other than the physiology of your biochemistry is openly claiming it is “magical.”

Intelligent design is not pseudoscientific crap according to me or “the troika.” It is pseudoscientific crap according to 99 percent of the biologists and people related in other fields of research. There are even supreme court decisions that it relies on zero evidence and can not be thought as science in schools. It is creationism, sprayed with lingo that imitates science to attract uneducated bottom feeders. (And looks like it works.) The scientific community is not a sort of mafia, they are not pop singers who sing to the choir, they dont disqualify it because of politics, they disqualify it because anybody in their right mind can see it for the fraud it is. (Had it been political, it would have been the other way around, most people and hence the politicians would prefer to believe we have immortal souls, any plausible hypothesis would have been jumped on by every one at once. But the idea is absurd. At which point in evolution did we start to have souls? Do dogs have soul? How about lizards? How about bacteria?)

And the reason people who know better mostly ignore your links isnt because there is no counter arguments. It’s because they dont even bother to reply. It’s 2021, internet bs is recognized quite fast. I’m pretty sure, most people who even read a few books or watched a few documanteries on evolution, dont even click on these links anymore. Now, I know you are not very comprehensive, to put it politely. You will stick to DI propaganda. I only exposed it for third party readers, in case they are unfamiliar to such pseudo traps. Otherwise, debating ID is not different than debating flat earth or homeopathy. You may wanna waste your time with it in gaming forums but the world has moved on some time ago.
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2021 02:29 PM

lol. Your whole philosophy can be summarized in a single silogism:

1 - Everything has a material cause
2 - Some things appear to have non-material causes
3 - Therefore those things don't exist

Science, as currently understood, cannot deal with the fact that we are conscious. That's recognized even by atheists, the good ones, not the pop guys. You should read this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008SQL6NS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2021 03:20 PM

Look, Gandalf, if you want a discussion, post something serious in the OSM.

The fact that you don't and instead just post links to what is presumably utter bollocks speaks volumes, though.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2021 03:42 PM
Edited by artu at 16:16, 01 Jun 2021.

No, it is not a slogan, it is the basis of scientific method to explain nature with nature, by what it can observe, test, falsify, instead of making crap up.

If there are still things unexplained about how consciousness works (which doesnt mean the existence of consciousness itself cant be explained by natural process, the basics can be and they are explained), they may be in the future or not, this doesnt mean you can make up “souls” as a valid answer. That answer is childish and it would bring up more questions than it answers anyway.

Guess what, by giving electric pulses, you can also not stimulate a crocodile to wait in stealth mode, suddenly attack an antilope, pull it under water and drown it, then eat it. I guess, the croc brain and consciousness also has a dualistic “nature” and a “metaphysical dimension” by your logic and “evidence.” How about spiders weaving their webs, we cant stimulate that by giving them electric signals either, do spiders have souls now?

It is a FACT that consciousness, intelligence, being sentinent evolved gradually over time. We can directly observe this by looking at both behaviour and brain structure of different species. So at which point do we get souls? First primates? homo erectus? Or is it only homo sapiens that have souls? But they are not the only ones with consciousness and that is an obvious fact too. How about dolphins and whales which some experts say, have a much more sophisticated language and sign system than humans when they communicate, is that also “not explained” by natural process? Never heard of a marine biologist searching for the spirit of whales, hmmm, I wonder why is that…
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 01, 2021 05:36 PM

WHY did the chicken cross the road
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Never changing = never improving

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2021 05:51 PM

NimoStar said:
WHY did the chicken cross the road


Precisely. Intentionality transcends the description of the neurological and motor functions of the bird.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2021 06:01 PM

There is not a clear-cut, black and white distinction between intentional and unintentional behaviour. Once again, it is something that evolved gradually, if it is not an illusion of course. The very nature of intentional behaviour is in question, when it is known by direct scans that your brain makes decisions miliseconds before you are under the impression of making them.

Also, it is silly to expect artificially stimulating intentional behaviour, when you cant even stimulate unintentional ones. This doesnt prove anything metaphysical in both cases, so, comparing them in favor “spirits” is  a logical fallacy to begin with.
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2021 06:24 PM

artu said:
There is not a clear-cut, black and white distinction between intentional and unintentional behaviour. Once again, it is something that evolved gradually, if it is not an illusion of course. The very nature of intentional behaviour is in question, when it is known by direct scans that your brain makes decisions miliseconds before you are under the impression of making them.

Also, it is silly to expect artificially stimulating intentional behaviour, when you cant even stimulate unintentional ones. This doesnt prove anything metaphysical in both cases, so, comparing them in favor “spirits” is  a logical fallacy to begin with.


you seem to be uninformed of the actual debate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereitschaftspotential
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 01, 2021 06:48 PM

No, this is something else, not the actual debate.I already linked recent studies in the related thread, dont have the time to carry them over here. And I see you seem to have no problem with Wikipedia when you are under the impression that it supports you, ahah, typical…

Birds not having intelligent close to high mammals doesnt change anything I said. Mental capacities still evolved gradually, there are still many animals that are not as near as reflexive as birds. You still cannot pinpoint a time in history where organisms are attached with souls, the whole idea sounds as ridiculous as it jumped out from a comic book universe. Our personality still changes according to neorulogical, chemical, physical interference (physical like in Phineas Gage), we cure mental disorders by chemical interaction, our behaviour changes by substance use… Nothing suggests there is a non-physical soul that makes us who we are. The idea isnt even plausible to begin with, put aside not supported by evidence.

And to suggest such a thing exists only because some behaviour can not be stimulated electrically… you can not EVEN do that with chicken. Yet you dont conclude chickens have soul. Chickens dont refute me, they refute you.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2021 07:14 PM

there sure is a lot of talk regarding chickens in this thread...

so i'll help!



buk buk buk buKOCK!

buk buk.

buk buk buk.

buKOCK!

*jerks head crazily*

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