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| Thread: Heroes 4 Ultimate - Prerelease liberated |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Assryn
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2021 06:04 PM |
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Edited by Assryn at 18:49, 17 Jun 2021.
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Addendum 4: Fixed, it was a special character in the map name that prevented the Export from happening ! All good now  !
I have a small question, does the Ultimate mod do something to the Export scenario functionality of the Map Editor ? Because since installing I can't export scenarios from one of my campaigns to another :/ the Import Scenario functionality works like a charm, but not the Export one, which has me a bit stuck.
Does anyone have any clue what could be causing that ?
(Edit: Do you still need me to post the files you mentionned regarding the Editor crash Nimo, or is it already under control ?)
Addendum: I can already say that repairing the game through GOG didn't fix it, I'll let you know if I find a solution
Addendum 2: Humm ... I uninstalled and reinstalled the whole game ... and that didn't fix it either ... I'm not sure what more to do ...
Addendum 3: Trying it with a different campaign worked. I just tried with a different map from the same campaign, and it worked too, but weither I try using ctrl+alt+X or go in the campaign menu to try and export it, the window doesn't open, strictly for this map ... I don't understand anymore ...
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 17, 2021 09:33 PM |
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Edited by boho at 03:33, 18 Jun 2021.
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Life pre-review time. I played through the Life campaign on Equilibris about a week and a half ago.
STANDARD LEGAL DISCLAIMER:
I haven't taken a dive into stat comparisons since, being a pre-release, those aren't clearly documented anywhere yet (and I didn't want to do screenshot-by-screenshot comparisons). These opinions are based solely on the abilities that were changed, and assume stat values stayed the same as Equilibris. Note we know for a fact they didn't stay exactly the same, so keep that in mind while reading.
For ease of reading I'll use the following symbols:
+: Creature gained this ability.
-: Creature lost this ability.
(No symbol): Creature kept this ability from Equilibris/vanilla.
?: Dude idk
Tier 1
* Crossbowman
Ranged
-Long Range
+Shoots Twice
Mini-elves! This is a major buff for a simple reason: Precision, and Life's easy access to it. Sure, you have to deal with half ammo, but most fights are typically decided by then, and besides, Life is one of the better factions at long slogs of battles. You can also just leave them at home to guard the base - the loss of Long Range doesn't matter up on a tower, and bursting a Hero or fragile flyer down is more important than tons of ammo.
* Squire
Stun
+No Retaliation
A flat buff (assuming there are no statistical downsides), Squires now are given the privilege of continuing to live after trying (and usually failing) to deliver that clutch Stun. They're already one of the tankier Tier 1s, and now they're even more so.
Tier 1 Overall
One of Ultimate's stated goals is to have you reconsidering what units to take. In my case I'm not sure that's changed - I already kept my big Resurrection-snowballed stack of Crossbowmen with me and would certainly continue to do so, while the Squire continues to be more of an early game necessity/arrow-catcher than a tactical choice.
Tier 2
* Ballista
Mechanical
Ranged
-Long Range*
-No Obstacle Penalty*
+Siege Capable
+Giant Slayer
First, let's note that "Siege Capable" includes both "Long Range" and "No Obstacle Penalty," so the Ballista hasn't really lost anything. Truthfully, it hasn't gained that much either. Slayer is mostly flavor - like on all lower-level creatures that have it, their Attack usually can't get high enough to the point that 1.5x damage really does all that much - though being on a tower in a Castle battle certainly helps, and having an always-on Chaos Magic buff (normally hard for Life to get) is nice. Thankfully, its map movement is still improved (similar to, but not the same as, Equilibris) so the Ballista isn't borderline unusuable in the field like it is in Vanilla.
* Pikeman
Long Weapon
-Negate First Strike
+First Strike
+Giant Slayer
+Unlimited Retaliation
Mini-griffins! With Snake Strike already applied! They're obviously buffed, and frankly, probably overtuned considering the creature already performed quite well. After all, Long Weapon is "No Retaliation" in most cases, and grants the otherwise slow unit a wider threat range than you'd think. They're not Mechanical like Ballista, but that also means that they can join the Resurrection snowball. Get a big enough blob of them (not hard due to their growth and easy access to Lord heroes from Order), buff them to the gills as Life already does, and watch the AI kill itself. Like Ballista, Slayer is mostly flavor due to low attack, but it's nice to have since Life has trouble getting Chaos Magic.
Tier 2 Overall
If you don't take Life Magic (maybe you want to build up a Lord as a first hero?), I'd favor the Ballista for its built-in immunities and lower casualties. They're also better in siege defense where you have a Castle. Otherwise, I'd go Pikemen.
Tier 3
* Crusader
Strikes Twice
-Death Ward
+First Strike
+Magic Mirror
I always loved Crusaders in the Heroes games. That double-Strike on a mid-tier unit is just scary. Well, they're higher than mid-tier in Heroes 4, and as a result they're scarier than ever. Ultimate makes them even scarier still - possibly too scary, as First Strike on such a high-damage/attack unit is a fantastic mitigation tool. Magic Mirror is especially good, though, again, maybe too much, considering the usual counter to these beasts is debuffs. Death Ward was mostly flavor (and a callback to Heroes 2), since you'd throw up Mass Death Ward as needed anyway, so while it was nice to have here and there, and possibly let you creep certain targets sooner than usual, it's not that much of a loss.
Crusader might actually be a little too good. Units need weaknesses as much as strengths, and I don't really see a weakness on the Crusader. Assuming their stats haven't been changed, I'd actually suggest going back to the drawing board here. Maybe Blind Immunity (yes, Magic Mirror doesn't outright prevent anything, but it still feels is a bit too punitive when fighting them) and Negate First Strike (so they still have to trade hits, putting their nice defenses on the line)?
* Monk
Ranged
-Death Ward
+Chaos Ward
+No Melee Penalty
Monk loses Death Ward, a pretty useless Ward for a ranged unit to begin with, and picks up Chaos Ward, a far more useful one (it's still no Order Ward, but that probably wouldn't make a ton of sense anyway). Chaos Ward is just nicer to have, saving you losses from obnoxious Beholders, Medusae, and stray AOEs. No Melee Penalty is always nice, scaring off weak harassment attackers, though it won't stop a serious attack as the Monks are still very squishy. Overall, seems pretty fairly balanced.
Tier 3 Overall
It comes down to what you need more at the time - a brawler or a ranged. In general, I'd take Crusader if I was running Tactics (they scale better off the speed/morale/stats), and Monk otherwise.
Tier 4
* Angel
Flying
?Resurrection?
+Death Ward
+Blinding
+Negate Mind Immunity
I'm assuming they still have Resurrection. Again, creature spells aren't actually listed abilities, they're in the code. Maybe one day we'll have a plugin for that too!
Big Poppa picks up natural Death Ward (potentially very useful on such a fast creature, but of course highly situational), Blinding (potentially scary), and Negate Mind Immunity (assuming it works, this means Blinding can land on anything - avert your eyes, Ballistae!).
Even better(er) than before. But too good? Probably not. It depends on how Blinding's formula works. Is it a damage/hp comparison like stun? If so, yes, that's scary, especially against Combat heroes. Mostly it seems like a cool, flavorful addition.
* Champion
Charge
-First Strike
+Long Weapon
Oh dear. Nobody's favorite budget option gets better on the offense and worse on the rebound.
Long Weapon means (mostly) No Retaliation and an increased range. Champions didn't really have a problem with range, but pseudo-No Retaliation is always nice (until that point you click the wrong pixel and your unit refuses to move to max range and you get retaliated against). Losing First Strike and picking up Long Weapon "makes sense" in the fantasy-reality sense because a lance isn't going to be able to do much once a target is inside its reach, but back in Tier 2 we have dudes with even longer weapons First Striking and Unlimited Retaliating, so who knows.
So their role has shifted but not really changed. Before, you had a unit that charged into the middle of the enemy formation and then basically was a big jerk. Instead of kinda-No Retalation, they had a Charge-based alpha strike combined with First Strike to hopefully neutralize or disable the retaliation from the major threat so they could then turn around, block shooters, and mess up a formation. First Strike gave them some 'offense is defense' protection against the first interceptor that would then try to gang up on them and drive them away.
With Long Weapon you get to preserve numbers during the alpha strike but at best be trading hits with the interceptor. Is this better or worse? The answer is "it depends." With Life Magic support, they're better on the defense simply because Life can easily boost HP, Defense, Damage, and even add Extra Lives but nobody can touch Attack (which, for the record, is hardly more than a Tier 3 on a Champion). On the other hand, if you could throw Slayer on them via a Chaos dip, it'd make their alpha strike even... alpha-ier?
I'd say the Champion is a wash. Slightly different. Still garbage compared to the Angel. Still worth picking up anyway if you don't have enough free Crystal and Gold per week to buy all your Angels.
Tier 4 Overall
Not much changed. Depending on how Blind works, Angel might be moderately better, but at first glance it's mostly just more flavorful. The Champion has slightly changed tactically, but you probably won't even notice. Angels are still the Bently and Champions are still the Ford Fiesta.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 17, 2021 11:45 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 02:14, 18 Jun 2021.
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Quote:
Crusader might actually be a little too good. Units need weaknesses as much as strengths, and I don't really see a weakness on the Crusader. Assuming their stats haven't been changed, I'd actually suggest going back to the drawing board here. Maybe Blind Immunity (yes, Magic Mirror doesn't outright prevent anything, but it still feels is a bit too punitive when fighting them) and Negate First Strike (so they still have to trade hits, putting their nice defenses on the line)?
Crusader is slow melee unit, much like Pikemen. I'd consider that a built-in weakness.
Actually, these crusaders are nerfed compared to H4 Greatest Mod crusaders. Those crusaders attacked twice AND had blinding attack 
I wanted to have a creature attacking twice and having first strike- First strike doesn't really do what you think here.
You attack once, the enemy retaliates, and then you attack again. So it's only "half first strike", not that devastating (specially when your attack doesn't apply any debuff)
Probably crusader will get slightly lowered HP a bit to compensate the Magic Mirror. They have mirrored surfaces, tho 
Quote:
Even better(er) than before. But too good? Probably not. It depends on how Blinding's formula works. Is it a damage/hp comparison like stun? If so, yes, that's scary, especially against Combat heroes.
Stun is compared to HP, but blind is a flat chance. And yes, Angels can blind creatures immune to blind. That's the power of divinity, I guess :V
Quote:
Losing First Strike and picking up Long Weapon "makes sense" in the fantasy-reality sense because a lance isn't going to be able to do much once a target is inside its reach, but back in Tier 2 we have dudes with even longer weapons First Striking and Unlimited Retaliating, so who knows.
Thing is, the Pikeman assumes the enemy is going to be covering ther distance, so it makes sense that they have a defensive position. Cavaliers don't use that kind of formation since they are mounted units - they need the offensive in order to get the most out of their lances, since they can't be used the same way when static.
And I believe champions are pretty good when they have numeric superiority. In my tests getting that unretaliated attacks at a distance lets them be quite a nightmare. Take into account that unlike pikemen they are pretty fast, and the +range also acts like +movement.
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Never changing = never improving
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 18, 2021 12:36 AM |
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Edited by boho at 03:29, 18 Jun 2021.
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NimoStar said:
I wanted to have a creature attacking twice and having first strike- First strike doesn't really do what you think here.
You attack once, the enemy retaliates, and then you attack again. So it's only "half first strike", not that devastating (specially when your attack doesn't apply any debuff)
No, that's what I expected they did. The point was one full attack before any retaliation is quite strong as its own kind of mitigation.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 18, 2021 06:46 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 08:28, 18 Jun 2021.
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Ok, just clarifying its not as strong as a full first strike creature would imply.
Development front:
While mage conversion has been a little mixed, ghost conversion went as planned. Ladies and gentlement, I give you the Poltergeists!
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PS: I have been having some strange crashes on my latest version, hope nothing important is compromised. I am doing Baron Von Tarkin's campaign. Eh, maybe it's just not resetting the PC for a long time... (the exe hasn't even been changed)
PS2: Probably is something with the ghost anim? damn you graphic conversions...
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Never changing = never improving
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nostradamus
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 18, 2021 11:07 PM |
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Looks good,but I still vote for ability when defeating enemies,numbers increase,even if ghosts would become the most dangerous creature in the game,but it would be made like homm 2,perhaps in the next releases,if it is managable or possible,thank you in forward.
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nostradamus
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 18, 2021 11:15 PM |
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And I would also wish that the same or similar could be done with genie,some random spell,if I am not mistaken,perhaps more choice with golems(I think that golems should be more powerful/strength,hitpoints,damage,defense),thank you for your answer.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 20, 2021 05:09 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 09:48, 21 Jun 2021.
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Quote:
Looks good,but I still vote for ability when defeating enemies,numbers increase,even if ghosts would become the most dangerous creature in the game,but it would be made like homm 2,perhaps in the next releases,if it is managable or possible,thank you in forward.
Though donate 50 dollars to my paypal so I can hire a programmer and I will try...
Quote:
And I would also wish that the same or similar could be done with genie,some random spell,if I am not mistaken,perhaps more choice with golems(I think that golems should be more powerful/strength,hitpoints,damage,defense),thank you for your answer.
Random spell beneficial not currently possible, only random curse on attack. Though same, we need good programmers for that. Currently no H4 object or ability possesses this effect. Easier new abilities would be abilities with effects that already exist, such as mentioned:
- Make creature start with spell effects like bless/slayer/holy armor/defender/nature ward/order ward etc. Works like Stone Skin.
- Make abilities with powers from artifacts, such as giving the target max negative morale (Tynan's dagger of despair).
- Make abilities that reproduce skills, such as higher levels of Stealth or creatures with Scouting.
And such.
But again, can't do that on myself, specially now that it's not hex edit, just plugin (if I make weird hex edits with jumps, plugins may stop working like they don't in Equilibris); so would need to hire specialist programmer, which isn't cheap.
The gold golems are already stronger in my mod, I will add some Fidget anim, and they have +1 growth, Stone Skin and Magic Mirror.
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'''And now for the actual news''', Evil Sorceress have been graphic altered to Toxic Sorceress for their attack and return and poisonous assault.
Only icon portrait is pending.
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Never changing = never improving
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nostradamus
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 20, 2021 11:22 PM |
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Thank you for explaining the current situation.I knew somehow that I wanted too much,but what you did exceeds my expectation and satisfaction,really good work Nimo!
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted June 20, 2021 11:58 PM |
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 21, 2021 01:15 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 08:54, 21 Jun 2021.
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Gandalf196 said:
https://powerrangers.fandom.com/wiki/Toxica
Well, evil sorceress was already based on old serials comic book style villainess, so I guess it still fits. Indeed, the old outfit was even closer to it
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Check out the new page in Moddb. It was asked by people, and I'm a man of the people, so here it is:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/heroes-iv-ultimate/
If I have to upload a second prerelease or indeed, the full version, it will go there and not in the Greatest Mod page.
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Never changing = never improving
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 21, 2021 09:37 PM |
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Edited by boho at 21:38, 21 Jun 2021.
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May as well knock out Nature while it's still fresh in my mind!
STANDARD LEGAL DISCLAIMER
I haven't taken a dive into stat comparisons since, being a pre-release, those aren't clearly documented anywhere yet (and I didn't want to do screenshot-by-screenshot comparisons). These opinions are based solely on the abilities that were changed, and assume stat values stayed the same as Equilibris. Note we know for a fact they didn't stay exactly the same, so keep that in mind while reading.
For ease of reading I'll use the following symbols:
+: Creature gained this ability.
-: Creature lost this ability.
(No symbol): Creature kept this ability from Equilibris/vanilla.
?: Dude idk
Tier 1
* Sprite (Recolored)
Flying
-No Retaliation
+Magic Mirror
+Skeletal
+Weakness
Spooky skeleton sprites! Well, no, it's just a way to give them +100% Ranged Defense in the currently limited state of Heroes 4 modding, but still, funny mental image. Anyway.
With the loss of No Retaliation, their role has changed, and they have already been recolored to signify this (correct me if I'm wrong, but they might have been renamed too). Instead of a big stack being a threat thanks to No Retaliation, now a big stack is a threat thanks to the fact they're a pain to stop. With Skeletal (this should be Blur - yes it's a nerf, but this mental image is killing me), they're harder than usual to stop with ranged attacks. And with Magic Mirror, you're going to be hurting yourself if you try to stop them with magic.
So what does stop them? Retaliations. Rather abruptly, actually, because Sprites are still made of glass. On the plus side, they leave now Weakness on their target, which is a nice plus, and makes them much more like Serpent Flies from Heroes 3 than Sprites. And like Serpent Flies, they're probably better in multiple small stacks than one monolithic one - a major departure from how Sprites are typically used.
Since it's Nature, it warrants discussing them as an in-combat summon, and for a level 1 spell, they're definitely too good. For the same cost as just casting Weakness, you get a creature that, if it manages to land its attack (not hard thanks to Flying + high speed), applies Weakness, consumes a target's Retaliation, can mess with area of control for a ranged unit, and does a tiny amount of damage. Finally, while the summon is up, any Mass spells will get reflected back to a single target. That's quite a bit for 2 mana, and is embarrassing to already-terrible Death Magic.
I'd tweak Ultimate Sprites by removing Flying. As-is, their ability suite is too robust for a level 1 creature, and absolutely too good for 2 mana. If you require lore, their wings being used as magic reflectors makes them too heavy to fly anymore.
* Wolf
Strikes Twice
+Unlimited Retaliation
+Death Ward
In my mind Wolves were already one of the better level 1s and didn't need much, if anything. Ultimate Wolves are flatly better, but not substantially so - unless you're Death or otherwise making the horrible mistake of attempting to use Death Magic, and then they're a problem.
Unlimited Retaliation is nice, but I could see it making them too disruptive in early game creeping, disproportionately increasing losses for certain towns.
Death Ward is confusing to me. Wards are typically used as flavor, so would Wolves be resistant to Death? This is extra punitive to Death considering they have no ranged attackers outside of Level 3 (and then only by sacrificing Vampires) to work around Unlimited Retaliation. Order Ward makes more sense here - wolves being a symbol of the wild, plus Order has enough ranged options (and multiple magic school options) in Tiers 1 and 2 to not just be flatly screwed if they encounter a pack of neutral Wolves early on. Or, ideally, no ward.
As a summon, they're probably too good for 2 mana. Wolves were already a choice early summon for chewing down siege walls and absorbing retaliations. Now they dish out even more pain on their way down. With a Warden hero, summoned Wolves could approach Ultimate Pikeman status - amazingly powerful for 2 mana in a magic system that hasn't similarly been overhauled.
I'd suggest removing Unlimited Retaliation (this is an iconic Griffin thing and already too common in the mod) and replace it with Negate First Strike (mental image: Wolves surrounding a target). Ditch Death Ward entirely, or if it "has to" have something, Order Ward.
Tier 1 Overall
They're both too robust for Tier 1 creatures. Compare Berserkers (who lost Two Attacks for Unlimited Retaliation) and Wolves (who didn't). Or look at Life's Tier 1s, who also buffed, but in a far more measured or give-and-take way. They also do too much for 2 mana. It's important to keep in mind when you change Nature creatures, you're also changing most of Nature's spellbook.
Tier 2
* Elf
Ranged
Ranged First Strike
Shoots Twice
+Stealth
Cool idea for an already strong and popular unit. It changes absolutely nothing in combat and almost nothing in single player since stealth armies are never worth the time and resources, but it lets you do snows and giggles stuff like putting out an army to snipe wandering AI heroes... as long as they're not too close to an AI town because then their stealth detector goes off and they hide in it the rest of the game. In theory it might change things in multiplayer, which works because multiplayer Heroes 4 is largely theoretical.
As a summon, nothing has changed.
* White Tiger
First Strike
+Negate First Strike
+Charging
The mini-Champion, which makes Champions look even worse than they already were. Arguably this Tier 2 Nature creature gets more universally useful abilities for the same role as Life's Tier 4 Champion, unless the Champion simply isn't attacked at all, in which case Long Weapon is better.
As a summon, it'll do a little more damage on traveling attacks and work around First Strike, but both of those aren't substantially disruptive. Seems fine for 3 mana.
Tier 2 Overall
If the freakin' White Tiger gets FS/NFS, the Tier 4 unit you have to give up Angels for should probably have it too.
Tier 3
* Griffin
Flying
Unlimited Retaliation
+Negate First Strike
Tanky bird gets a little tankier, forcing potential attackers to trade blows or, with Snake Strike, always getting the first attack except against other FS/NFS opponents. Did it need the buff? No, but it's minor.
As a summon, again, slightly better. A good option against heavy First Strike opponents.
* Unicorn
Blinding
+Flying
+Charging
+Ignore Magic Resistance
Uh...
Ok. Well! Unicorns, uh, got buffed. Just a little.
I can understand Charging. I expected Charging. I had hoped for a more reliable Blind, and Ignore Magic Resistance, sure, that fits the bill. But Flying? Oh no, honey. No.
I'd ditch everything new and just add First Strike. Here's why:
-Flying is way too much. If Unicorns needed a ~1-2 point buff, you can think of Flying as 4 points alone. I'm honestly not sure why it's here in the first place, were Unicorns hurting for mobility?
-Charging is fine but you already have it on White Tigers. There needs to be less redundant choices. For player choices to matter, there have to be sacrifices.
-Ignore Magic Resistance works around valid counter-play that requires investment. Nothing below Tier 4 should just flat-out ignore something like that unless it uses the unit's entire action (e.g. Ultimate Ogre Magi's Curse).
First Strike gives you everything you're trying to do while also allowing Magic Resistance to exist and work. Remember an advantage of Unicorns is that they have more useful and cheaper pre-reqs, are cheaper to buy, and grow more per week. They should be slightly worse than Griffins.
As a summon? Surprisingly not as broken. Keep in mind 4-point spells require a serious level investment, and contain effects like guaranteed Blind, the second tier of Mass spells, Implosion/Inferno/Cat Reflexes, etc.
Tier 3 Overall
Griffins needed nothing and were given a decent, but mostly token, thing. Unicorns needed a little more oomph and were given a jetpack.
Tier 4
* Faerie Dragon
Flying
Spell Caster
-Magic Mirror
+Insubstantial
+Negate Mind Immunity
I'm not sure Faerie Dragons needed a rework, but here we are - their Def/rDef is doubled.
Interestingly, due to Insubstantial and the loss of Magic Mirror, Faerie Dragons' old defensive strength - being a crappy option to cast on - is now their defensive weakness - a target you absolutely should cast on, because it's a pain to rip them down physically.
Negate Mind Immunity isn't as powerful as it usually is because Faerie Dragons only get Confusion - spending their turn to negate an enemy creature's turn isn't usually a great use of a turn. Since they're so tanky now, I guess you could bring several small stacks of Faerie Dragons and get away with locking down all but one target at a time, which your death stack or hero then beats up. Considering all the other ways to cheese encounters that don't require multiple Tier 4 creatures, I don't think that's the end of the world.
As a summon, they're definitely better, but still fair, I think, for a Tier 5 spell. I rarely summoned Faerie Dragons, but super tanky ones could be more useful than before in bad situations.
* Phoenix
Flying
Breath Attack
Rebirth
Fire Resistance
No changes.
Tier 4 Overall
The choice has changed somewhat - Faerie Dragons' spell lists still make them offensive casters, but they're now physically very durable. What confuses me is I wasn't having trouble keeping Faerie Dragons alive before, so I'm not convinced this was really necessary. It opens up more positioning options for them other than "sit in the back row" at least? Despite their high damage, their attack is still crap - significantly worse even than the White Tiger's - so all this really does is keep them around longer.
Nature Overall
Of the towns reviewed, Nature has been the worst offender in two categories: box-checking change (the impression that changes were made not to improve the game, but because the mod is advertised as changing everything), and balance. This isn't surprising because the two often go hand-in-hand. Compare Might and Nature and you'll see what I mean - Might is measured and thoughtful, adding new strengths and weaknesses with a clear-eyed view of each role a unit should play. Nature, on the other hand, has a lot of blanket buffs - only two units, Sprites and Faerie Dragons - actually lose anything.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 22, 2021 04:22 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 06:48, 22 Jun 2021.
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You are wrong about nature, and here's why:
Nature actually loses a lot as compared to equilibris:
- SUMMONING:
* There is no longer a summoning menu.
** This means summoning is completely random.
- HEROES:
* Rangers are now Explorers, they don't have shooting by default (you can still buy bow in Ranger's guild). Intead they have Pathfinding, which goes with the theme of the mod of Might classes giving adventure map bonuses.
- CREATURES:
* Fire Elementals are no longer shooters (they have flames).
* MP of Faerie Dragons got nerfed.
* Water elementals also got less MP.
* Waspworts don't cast Weakness.
* Mantises don't have Bind.
You are skipping the Creature Portal. This is a mistake if you want to evaluate "balance", along with skipping all statistics, magic and heroes, of course.
With something as limited as json abilities, at most you can evaluate flavor alone.
- NATURE MAGIC:
* Summoning Leprechauns is now level 2. You don't get to summon and cast Fortune for just 2 mp any more since level 1.
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Now about the Faerie Dragons, this is actually a very deliberate change.
You see, H4 has two colisseums, Colisseum of Might and Colisseum of Magic.
Yet they weren't really well thought of.
Colisseum of Might pits you against Black Dragons, which are magic immune. Thus might is rewarded over magic.
Colisseum of Magic pits you against Faerie Dragons... which are magic REFLECTIVE, but weak on melee. So again, you are rewarded for being pure might and no magic.
Now the second parts gets corrected. Colisseum of Might still rewards you for being pure Might, but colisseum of Magic actually rewards you for being magical (instead of might again). Now Might heroes are at a disadvantage against the immaterial Faerie Dragons (which got base defense nerfed, anyways). But they have no magic defense now.
Thus is the necessity of bringing a magic, not mighty, hero to these encounters. So now, there is balance in colisseums: One good for might, one good for Magic.
Trivia:
I was going to recolor Faerie Dragons but no new of the effects convinced me as worth it, so in the end I decided against it(until there is PNG edit).
Here are my notes for the unicorn in the current version (which has more stats changes than before)
Quote:
- UNICORN:
* -10 HP
* +1 attack, -1 defense
* -1 damage
* -1 movement, +1 drive
* +50 gold cost, +7 XP
[Now has Charge, Flying, and Negate Magic Resistance]
Reasoning: The unicorn is now defined as a mobile attacker, as such, is has been made less tanky, with more emphasis in a glass-cannon like configuration. This balances the Griffin which is a more HP-and-DEF heavy unit.
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Never changing = never improving
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 22, 2021 07:01 AM |
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*You're right, I did forget the Creature Portal. I'll have to go over those tomorrow.
*The loss of the Summoning Menu sucks, yes, and is one of the reasons I didn't jump to Ultimate. That doesn't make Summoning totally random though - it just means it's back to the vanilla janky pain in the ass to control.
*The Coliseums - poorly designed one-off encounters you might not even see on a map - are quite an edge case to design an entire unit tier (which you will see on every map if you play Nature) around. Better instead to mod the Coliseum encounter, or if that's too much of a pain to do, just replace them on maps.
*If your goal is to turn the Unicorn into a Pegasus that's fine, but I'd drop Blind + Ignore MR and give it something more alpha charger friendly that doesn't increase its defensive strength - like Ignore First Strike. Plus you've already got a flying Blinder (Angel), so it'd keep things unique.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 22, 2021 02:19 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 14:39, 22 Jun 2021.
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Quote:
*The Coliseums - poorly designed one-off encounters you might not even see on a map - are quite an edge case to design an entire unit tier (which you will see on every map if you play Nature) around. Better instead to mod the Coliseum encounter, or if that's too much of a pain to do, just replace them on maps.
They are an entire map object. The colisseum is at least as important as the Fading Dragon (this is a name change) creature. What I could do is to change the Nature max unit to the Gargantuan and leave the modded Faerie Dragons as neutral, but my compromise was to not switch creatures around this time.
Plus, Phoenix already have Fire Resistance, and most damaging spells are Fire type. Therefore, it makes sense as a tactical option that Fading Dragons are anti-might Magic, while Phoenixes are Anti-magic might.
Quote:
*If your goal is to turn the Unicorn into a Pegasus that's fine, but I'd drop Blind + Ignore MR and give it something more alpha charger friendly that doesn't increase its defensive strength - like Ignore First Strike. Plus you've already got a flying Blinder (Angel), so it'd keep things unique.
Negate first strike IS a defensive advantage,
since it allows you to defend at the same time as you are attacked by a first striker!
Furthermore, this is already on Griffins, which are the alternative to Unicorns. Speaking of unique you want to turn two alternative creatures into the same  At least angels are a different tier, a different town, and have other two abilities. But if I do what you tell, Sanctuary would have two flyers that negate first strike in same tier. No fun at all.
And I wanted to make unicorns flyers due to the sparkles on their feet. Actually, it's basically the only non flying unit I can get away with making fly without it looking completely absurd (imagine flying dwarves in comparison). Yes, this is a capricious reason, but given the 0 alternatives, it's justified
Perhaps you are right however! That they should be even more like pegasi. Nerf defense, and make them really fast, while Griffins are slow. Good idea!
PS: 20 Unicorns killed. It was a unicorn massacre. I had heard of "Unicorn hunting"; but this is too much.
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Never changing = never improving
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 22, 2021 05:40 PM |
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See, I'd say NFS is more of an offensive boost - without it you take the First Strike, with it you trade blows in simultaneous retaliation. Either way the creature with NFS is taking much more damage than First Strike -> apply kills -> Retaliation with lower numbers.
Griffins do get NFS, but I'm not sure they really need it since it's such a complete unit already. If you really want Pegasi, I don't think you'd be hurting anything to just leave Griffins as default and move NFS to Unicorn.
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boho
Hired Hero
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posted June 22, 2021 05:51 PM |
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Edited by boho at 17:52, 22 Jun 2021.
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Another thought I just had while playing - though it runs the risk of looking stupid, how hard would it be to add lines to the randomly generated obstacles on the battle field that accurately delineated their boundaries in a perspective-friendly way? For example, when you have movement shadows on (especially on a fast flier), you can clearly see the exact edges of a battle map object. Heroes 4 suffers from its battle map being pretty hard to read, so if it was possible to make the obstacle asset actually have an obvious line around where it would be placed on the map, you could clearly show what is and isn't an obstacle, and possibly even what is and isn't cover, at a glance.
I can do a quick mockup if this makes no sense, just let me know.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 22, 2021 06:59 PM |
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It's both defensive and offensive in equal measure.
Unicorns blinding is a mainstay of the series, and blinding actually isn't defensive at all - you are encouraged to attack high value targets in order to disable them up to three rounds, even with losses to the unicorn stack if the enemy is stronger.
The ability I'm actually testing now is strike and return. Sneaky unicorns. I must say it looks pretty funny, and is nice for usability now that they are an "elite" unit (growth was changed from 5 to 3 expensive Unicorns).
About the objects, it would be good if you could show it, but on the other hand, there is currently no way to switch object graphics with view mode - they would have to always look like "delineated", or never.
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Never changing = never improving
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BrucknerHun
Hired Hero
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posted June 24, 2021 04:44 PM |
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Death pre-review time. I tested a while ago, but now I will share my thoughts.
STANDARD LEGAL DISCLAIMER: Sorry for copying your style, pls dont get offended boho!
I haven't taken a dive into stat comparisons since, being a pre-release, those aren't clearly documented anywhere yet (and I didn't want to do screenshot-by-screenshot comparisons). These opinions are based solely on the abilities that were changed, and assume stat values stayed the same as Equilibris. Note we know for a fact they didn't stay exactly the same, so keep that in mind while reading.
For ease of reading I'll use the following symbols:
+: Creature gained this ability.
-: Creature lost this ability.
(No symbol): Creature kept this ability from Equilibris/vanilla.
?: Dude idk
Tier 1
* Skeleton
Undead
Skeletal
Actually, nothing changed for the skeleton, I saw that their hp had been reduced a bit, but they were still as good creatures as before. You can buy it and resurrect it by necromancy, it’s still a nightmare for shooters because of their bones, a lot of it is produced from it.
You can have a big army out of it even in the middle of the game! I still love this creature !! : D
* Imps
Flying
Mana leech
Imps, good little, imps. I’m already slowly starting to feel sorry for them because they’re actually still useful at the beginning of the game, but then they’re just meant to transform them into a skeleton. It’s true that you get a lot of them and they also steal mana for your necromancer, but it’s very crappy unfortunately. I think they would even give them some ability or increase their stats a bit.
* Zombies
Undead
Thoughness
The big HP, hard zombies. Their only downside is that they are very slow, but you can put them as a castle protector! And that's not available in your own city, unfortunately. No change is needed here.
Tier 1 Overall
One of Ultimate's stated goals is to have you reconsidering what units to take. In my case I'm not sure that's changed - Here, according to the abilities, nothing has changed, it is good for the skeleton, but very bad for the imps.
They’re actually useful at the beginning of the game, but then not. Except for the skeleton that needs to be put into your team. A zombie would be good instead of an imp, but you can't recruit right away.
Tier 2
* Ghosts (Recolor recommended)
Undead
Insubstantial
-Aging
-Flying
+Life Draining
+Fear
Mini-vampires- or should I call it Ghost-Vampires? At last, this creature also got what he needed.
He may have lost his flight and can’t conjure aging on his opponent, but he got better instead. Starting with stealing life force and being attacked by fear, living things can't attack him again !!
And you can even keep a small team alive. Now for me, this creature is my favorite of all. (so far, of course, he was the vampire). He doesn't do much damage, but he has great protection. Even so, it's hp isn't bad either.
I just love it !!!! : D
* Cerberi
Strikes Twice
Triple Headed Attack
- No retalation
Well the cerberus has changed a bit, but that's good. He may have lost his ability, but I think his stats have gotten better than the ghost and he has about twice as much attack damage. (and multiply that by two, hahhaha). Good creature. The only downside is that it is alive.
* Gargoyles
Flying
Stoneskin
- Undead
+ Stealth
+ Mechanical
Sneaky-Mechanical gargoyles, I love it!! His stats have improved a bit as well, but not a bad creature. Watch out, he'll hide from you on the map!
* Mummies
Undead
Aging attack
+ Rebirth
+ Ranged
Hmm, very interesting changes! So far, the mummy hasn't posed much danger, but now it does !!! He rises from the dead, so you have to deal with it twice out of the way. It may not have as much of an attack, but it has a very strong ranged attack that the machine really likes to fire at the beginning of the game. More than a dangerous creature, but you can also resurrect it through necromancy !!!!! : D
Tier 2 Overall
Well here it doesn't really matter what you choose, as they are both very good creatures. The cerberus is good for attack though slow, while the ghost is good for defense. Very hard to compare, in the past I always chose cerberi but it looks like I will like the new Ghosts more !! : D
Tier 3
* Vampires
Undead
Life draining
- No retalations
- Flying
+ Cold attack
+ Teleport
Well, vampires have always been among the strongest creatures, but I’m glad they finally are balanced. Not so op right now, but I disagree on why you got Cold Attack ability?
But overall, he is still a strong being! : D
* Venom Spawn
Ranged
Poison
The only shooter in this castle is to think carefully about what to choose !! It has been good so far and is still good! I'm glad nothing has changed here! : D
* Ice Demon
Freezing Attack
Cold Attack
Cold Resistance
- Undead
+ Elementals
Well, it's not a bad creature, but since you can’t hire him, he’s only left with neutral armies. The change was understandable because it’s actually an elemental and not an undead.
Tier 3 Overall
It comes down to what you need more at the time - a brawler or a ranged. In general, I'd take Venom Spawn if I was running hero with Gm necromancy and build the vampire mansion in my second town! 
Tier 4
* Devils
Teleport
- Summon Ice Demon
+ Long Weapon
+ Fear
+ Negate Mind Immunity
I'm assuming they still have summoning( Yes invoke iron soldiers- goblin knights).
He became very strong, he might need a little nerf. The downside is that he lives. A bit OP! 
* Bone dragon
Flying
Undead
Skeletal
- Fear
+ Random Harmful Spells
Oh dear. Well, he did get random spells, but he was much weaker. It is true that he has more HP and high distance protection, but for now devil is better.
* Dark Champion
Charging
- Undead
- Terror (just a nerf to 1 use)
+ Mana leech
+ Life ward
Well, I didn't expect that, but let it be. The changes are understandable because it’s actually a fallen knight. Terror is nerf too. Good creature.
Tier 4 Overall
Not much changed. Depending on your playstyle, Bone Dragon might be better at first glance but no.. The Devil has slightly changed tactically, but you probably won't even notice. Devils is better- Change my mind!
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted June 24, 2021 06:14 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 04:45, 25 Jun 2021.
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Actually, you are right about devil being OP, which is why I have changed it, and also, I have boosted imps in next version, so mostly your observations are correct.
Here are some notes for death. You also get some sneak peek to the upcoming stat changes:
- IMPS:
* -1 HP, -2 movement.
* Attack anim changed.
[Now has Long Weapon.]
Reasoning:
Let's face it, Imps aren't the best combat units, and many a player will turn them into skeletons without a second thought. However, the change to having Long Weapon gives Imps something to redeem themselves in combat, since it allows them to strike without fear of retaliation.
The enabled spell to invoke Imps in Death will also be a favourite of many players, since it can actually replenish your spell points, besides taking the ones of the enemy.
Imp stats are still one of the lowest amongst all creatures, though, so they can still be destroyed by little effort.
- CERBERI:
[Allows retaliation, but attacks twice.]
Reasoning:
Since Ghosts are a very defensive and strategic unit, Cerberi are absolute destroyers. They may be fragile but this creature has the highest damage potential of all level 2 creatures, hands down. Not only can it attack three enemies, but it attacks them twice each.
- GHOST:
* Renamed to Poltergeist.
* Recolored blue.
[Loses flying and Aging; now has Drain Life and Panic.]
Reasoning:
Ghosts are an anti-living unit specialist, since they can drain life without fear of retaliation. They are however weak against elemental, mechanical and undead creatures.
Insubstantial makes this a high defense unit, which means it is hard to kill, so the drained HP is put to a good use.
Despite not really flying, ghosts are still pretty mobile.
- DEVIL:
* Reduced damage.
* Gave less spell points so it can call Goblin Knight. (5 spell points)
* Notice Goblin Knights and Devil itself now have much more utility due to upgraded abilities.
* Adjusted spell power so each devil always calls one Goblin Knight per casting.
* Damage and movement reduced (movement is still more than the map).
[Has now Fear, and Negate Mind Immunity in addition to Teleport. Goblin Knights have their own useful abilities.]
Reasoning:
The Devil was strong, but thematically, it suffered. Why would devils invoke Ice Demons? Did hell freeze over? They have fire anims! Yes, Devils are actually aliens from another world, but we never knew them for their "chilly" allies.
Now, they invoke Goblin Knights, which look much closer to their armored aesthetic. They also got to provoke Fear, and since they ignore mind immunity, they can cause fear in normally immune creatures, guaranteeing no retaliation.
- BONE DRAGON:
[Casts random curses with melee attacks, instead of Panic.]
Reasoning:
Bone Dragons were underwhelming. Also this creature lacks the quality booster of other undead, namely, the ability to be gotten for free with Necromancy. They also lack a Raise spell, sadly. Your best bet is get them with Undead Transformer, but that is not very efficient (you are turning level 4 into a worse level 4). The ability change now makes Bone Dragons actually really strong in long fights, and a worthy contender to be your max level death pick - although Devils put in a fierce competition.
- VENOM SPAWN:
* Growth increased to 4 from 3 (+1/+33%).
* Shots reduced.
* +DEF, -ATK, -1 move.
* Cheaper, less XP.
[Abilities unchanged.]
Reasoning:
The Venom Spawn had the same growth as the Vampire, which made it struggle going toe to toe with its amazing stats. Now the Venom Spawn can produce significantly more weekly HP, since they have +1 growth and still 100 HP each. This also compensates not being able to be gotten through Necromancy. Also, the spell to summon Venom Spawns in Death is enabled, giving them even more uses. Now that Vampires are significantly slower, Venom Spawns can compete better to be a viable army alternative, since they are 5 closer in movement range compared with before.
- ZOMBIE:
* Health reduced slightly (22 from 24), movement +1 (15 from 14), growth +1.
* Zombies are now resurrected with Basic Necromancy, instead of Skeletons.
[Toughness still doesn't do anything.]
Reasoning:
Zombies got just a slight usability boost, and they have a place in death since them is what you will be resurrecting with Basic Necromancy. They are still very slow though, and won't get natural growth from your town, so it's more like a stepping stone towards getting to necromant Skeletons if anything.
- VAMPIRE:
* -1 ATK, -3 DEF.
* +3 damage.
* -4 Drive, -6 Movement.
[Now teleports instead of flying, and has Cold Attack instead of No Retaliation.]
Reasoning:
Vampires were fast, had insanely high stats and were widely known as simply OP in the base Heroes 4, not to mention you can get them for free with grandmaster necromancy. By making vampires a bit less mobile and letting enemies retaliate against them, we have a unit that is still quite strong, but that can be defeated. The new teleportation effect is useful for infiltrating fortifications, though. Take into account also that because your necromancers start with Basic Necromancy, getting to Grandmaster where you raise Vampires is actually 1 level easier.
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The thing with vampire Cold Attack is that vampires are suppossed to be cold, since they are dead. Yes, not much of a justification, but they drain life and there's that. Plus it looks blue and everybody knows blue = cold
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Never changing = never improving
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