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| Thread: Convert H3 maps to H4 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 17, 2021 08:54 AM |
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H4 troglodite has 8 xp
h4 stats
8 x 15 = 120 AI p
H3 troglodite 59 AI p
1 h4 troglodite is more than 2 H3 troglodite. All is ok.
Ive calculated whole army not only 4 and 7 lvl units. So 5 units for H4 =7upgraded units H3.
Better calculation Ive done here:
H3 unit calculation
I can give better values than xp ai points made by my like this one.
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Bytebandit
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 17, 2021 08:01 PM |
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I would like to thank both Nimostar and Baronus for their analytical calculations and I'm not disputing the facts you have come up with in any way. Just the opposite. Calculations have been made for our conversion project to equal what's found in H3 as allowed. Creature selection is what's limited in H4, so, because of that, it could never be equaled as to what's in H3. For instance, you may not do battle with Pit lords in the H4 Chronicles. Instead, it might be with Nightmares. And everything is taken into account within the conversion as to how to handle that. And the numbers both of you have come up with are more or less on par with what we've been doing all along throughout the conversion afaik. We'd place something to replace something, wouldn't like it or it made no sense, and have to figure out what would work instead. Conversion is not a gimme that's for sure. 
And that's why we like hearing from outside sources. Keep 'em coming.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 18, 2021 01:35 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 16:53, 18 Dec 2021.
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Well, this is for automated, not manual, conversion.
manual conversion is actually much "harder" in that it requires personal criterion.
You may have such criterion. I think I do too.
But most players and mapmakers would benefit from an automated approach.
Playing both H3 and H4 to a level where you can accurately instictively gauge the strtenght of all creatures from both games and compare them, requires at least *hundreds* if not *thousands* of hours of mapmaking and gameplay. We take such as granted because we are old players to old games, but really we shoudn't.
To say something really basic: What really visually tells the newcomer that Manticores are level 6 and Pegasi are level 4?
That's why XP/AI conversion is a useful tool.
* * *
On the other hand I think it is incorrect saying "h4 has less stuff than h3".
I don't actually think H4 has any less artifacts (not counting combination ones, that were planned and not implemented; this can be seen in the Artifact table), and it actually has more adventure objects.
The number of creatures in H3 and H4 is, not counting upgrades, quite similar. H4 towns actually have 8 creatures each, 1 more than H3 towns, and there is an abundance of (aligned) "neutrals".
Of course, if your base is H3, you are going to notice the creatures H4 lacks (such as Fortress ones, and more demons), but if you converted from H4 to H3, you would see (non-hota) H3 doesn't have Gnashers, Sorceress, Leprechaun, Satyr, Gargantuan, Waspwort, Mantis, Goblin Knight, etc. etc.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 18, 2021 01:07 PM |
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For real proportional conversion it needs both h3 and h4 new values calculation. As you know its not the same when you fight with upg zombies or upg air elementals. Both is lvl 2. The same H4 ogres and genies both lvl 3. But these values are needed only to convert neutrals or in small part of maps hero starting armies if its more than only usually some starting units. For rmg and standard maps its only for neutrals. One neutral army can be strongest another weaknest but it was always in heroes game maps. Its interesting and give some additional characteristics for each gameplay beacuse its randomly generated. In h3 rmg you can change neutral monster power so after conversion the same will be in new H4 maps. In high lvl H4 maps neutrals are overpowered and ofen AI is dead fighing with them  ) Its completly stupid. To correct.
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iliveinabox05
Honorable
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2021 01:30 AM |
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Moving right along. I've addressed the last list of things I posted that I wanted to get to.
Currently I'm looking at converting special win and loss conditions.
I'm also starting to look at mapping artifacts, so if anyone would like to help with that, feel free to post them here.
Things like: Pendant of Second Sight -> Helm of Seeing.
They both make your troops immune to the Blind spell. Just want to be as similar as possible to the effects of the H3 and H4 artifacts.
Edit. Here's a link to the conversion document: link.
Same format as the one for creatures. Feel free to comment on any you think would be a good map from H3 to H4.
Right now all but maybe one or two on the H4 side are just mapping to RANDOM.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 24, 2021 06:28 AM |
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Quote:
put(H3Artifact.SPELL_SCROLL.VALUE, H4Artifact.RANDOM.VALUE);
Well, I can think of one...
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iliveinabox05
Honorable
Famous Hero
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posted January 14, 2022 08:48 PM |
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Added a lot of the mappings for artifacts, but I haven't updated the list I posted in here.
I've converted / transferred the majority of the most used interactive map objects. And by that I mean the objects I've actually been seeing on the Heroes Chronicles maps we have been converting, so there are still some that I haven't gone through yet.
I'm actually looking to start into landscape objects now, which is going to make passability start to become fun. I'll have to start looking into an alogrithm to map passability from the h3 maps to passability in h4 maps. So I'll also probably want to start keeping a map of the h4 grids and their passability.
This would be a major step towards an H4 RMG as well. Little by little we're getting there 
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iliveinabox05
Honorable
Famous Hero
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posted February 09, 2023 09:42 PM |
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Edit. I've added spell mappings. Here are the spells I don't have a mapping for yet, ideas welcome:
DIMENSION_DOOR
DISGUISE
EARTHQUAKE
LAND_MINE
REMOVE_OBSTACLE
SCUTTLE_BOAT
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Since I'm back at this again, I thought I'd bring the thread back to mapping creatures from h3 to h4. Specifically, the ones that aren't actually in H4, like many of the fortress units.
Here's a list of what I don't have mappings for yet. Baronus did suggest just using the units from the faction they would have been converted to, so that's a possibility and is up for discussion.
PEGASUS -> Griffin
SILVER_PEGASUS -> Griffin
DENDROID_GUARD -> Mantis
DENDROID_SOLDIER -> Mantis
MANTICORE -> Nightmare
SCORPICORE -> Nightmare
GNOLL -> Troglodyte
GNOLL_MARAUDER -> Troglodyte
LIZARDMAN -> Orc
LIZARD_WARRIOR -> Orc
GORGON -> Sea Monster
MIGHTY_GORGON -> Sea Monster
SERPENT_FLY -> Waspwort
DRAGON_FLY -> Waspwort
WYVERN -> Venom Spawn
WYVERN_MONARCH -> Venom Spawn
PSYCHIC_ELEMENTAL -> Evil Sorceress
MAGIC_ELEMENTAL -> Evil Sorceress
CRYSTAL_DRAGON -> Dragon Golem
RUST_DRAGON -> Frenzied Gnasher
BOAR -> Goblin Knight
Not as big a list as I remembered it being
Edit. List updated with suggestions I've received.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted February 27, 2023 01:32 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 13:33, 27 Feb 2023.
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Dimension door -> Either teleport or town portal
Gorgon can't be sea monster, sea monsters are so much strionger. Non-upgraded gorgons don't have death stare. i'd say Ogre Magi
Boars suck while goblin knights are OP, I'd say making them Trolls (which are also Chaos neutrals)
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iliveinabox05
Honorable
Famous Hero
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posted February 27, 2023 04:25 PM |
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NimoStar said:
Dimension door -> Either teleport or town portal
Gorgon can't be sea monster, sea monsters are so much strionger. Non-upgraded gorgons don't have death stare. i'd say Ogre Magi
Boars suck while goblin knights are OP, I'd say making them Trolls (which are also Chaos neutrals)
Probably town gate for dimension door. I was trying to not reuse spells, but not much of a choice here.
First cut at H3 AI -> H4 XP is incoming, so won't be as big of a deal if one unit is much stronger than another.
Trolls are already mapping to trolls, and I prefer not to reuse if I don't need to. The only creature I can think of that is mapped to twice is the Griffin (used for both Griffins and Pegasi).
I've also updated my class for H3->H4 conversion so that it will be simple to allow users to use their own mappings by updating a config file. Still have a lot more work to do there though, and it might be a little bit before I get there.
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