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| Thread: Convert H3 maps to H4 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Baronus
Promising
Legendary Hero
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posted December 17, 2021 08:54 AM |
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H4 troglodite has 8 xp
h4 stats
8 x 15 = 120 AI p
H3 troglodite 59 AI p
1 h4 troglodite is more than 2 H3 troglodite. All is ok.
Ive calculated whole army not only 4 and 7 lvl units. So 5 units for H4 =7upgraded units H3.
Better calculation Ive done here:
H3 unit calculation
I can give better values than xp ai points made by my like this one.
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Bytebandit
Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
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posted December 17, 2021 08:01 PM |
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I would like to thank both Nimostar and Baronus for their analytical calculations and I'm not disputing the facts you have come up with in any way. Just the opposite. Calculations have been made for our conversion project to equal what's found in H3 as allowed. Creature selection is what's limited in H4, so, because of that, it could never be equaled as to what's in H3. For instance, you may not do battle with Pit lords in the H4 Chronicles. Instead, it might be with Nightmares. And everything is taken into account within the conversion as to how to handle that. And the numbers both of you have come up with are more or less on par with what we've been doing all along throughout the conversion afaik. We'd place something to replace something, wouldn't like it or it made no sense, and have to figure out what would work instead. Conversion is not a gimme that's for sure. 
And that's why we like hearing from outside sources. Keep 'em coming.
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NimoStar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 18, 2021 01:35 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 16:53, 18 Dec 2021.
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Well, this is for automated, not manual, conversion.
manual conversion is actually much "harder" in that it requires personal criterion.
You may have such criterion. I think I do too.
But most players and mapmakers would benefit from an automated approach.
Playing both H3 and H4 to a level where you can accurately instictively gauge the strtenght of all creatures from both games and compare them, requires at least *hundreds* if not *thousands* of hours of mapmaking and gameplay. We take such as granted because we are old players to old games, but really we shoudn't.
To say something really basic: What really visually tells the newcomer that Manticores are level 6 and Pegasi are level 4?
That's why XP/AI conversion is a useful tool.
* * *
On the other hand I think it is incorrect saying "h4 has less stuff than h3".
I don't actually think H4 has any less artifacts (not counting combination ones, that were planned and not implemented; this can be seen in the Artifact table), and it actually has more adventure objects.
The number of creatures in H3 and H4 is, not counting upgrades, quite similar. H4 towns actually have 8 creatures each, 1 more than H3 towns, and there is an abundance of (aligned) "neutrals".
Of course, if your base is H3, you are going to notice the creatures H4 lacks (such as Fortress ones, and more demons), but if you converted from H4 to H3, you would see (non-hota) H3 doesn't have Gnashers, Sorceress, Leprechaun, Satyr, Gargantuan, Waspwort, Mantis, Goblin Knight, etc. etc.
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Never changing = never improving
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Baronus
Promising
Legendary Hero
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posted December 18, 2021 01:07 PM |
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For real proportional conversion it needs both h3 and h4 new values calculation. As you know its not the same when you fight with upg zombies or upg air elementals. Both is lvl 2. The same H4 ogres and genies both lvl 3. But these values are needed only to convert neutrals or in small part of maps hero starting armies if its more than only usually some starting units. For rmg and standard maps its only for neutrals. One neutral army can be strongest another weaknest but it was always in heroes game maps. Its interesting and give some additional characteristics for each gameplay beacuse its randomly generated. In h3 rmg you can change neutral monster power so after conversion the same will be in new H4 maps. In high lvl H4 maps neutrals are overpowered and ofen AI is dead fighing with them  ) Its completly stupid. To correct.
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iliveinabox05
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2021 01:30 AM |
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Moving right along. I've addressed the last list of things I posted that I wanted to get to.
Currently I'm looking at converting special win and loss conditions.
I'm also starting to look at mapping artifacts, so if anyone would like to help with that, feel free to post them here.
Things like: Pendant of Second Sight -> Helm of Seeing.
They both make your troops immune to the Blind spell. Just want to be as similar as possible to the effects of the H3 and H4 artifacts.
Edit. Here's a link to the conversion document: link.
Same format as the one for creatures. Feel free to comment on any you think would be a good map from H3 to H4.
Right now all but maybe one or two on the H4 side are just mapping to RANDOM.
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NimoStar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 24, 2021 06:28 AM |
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Quote:
put(H3Artifact.SPELL_SCROLL.VALUE, H4Artifact.RANDOM.VALUE);
Well, I can think of one...
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Never changing = never improving
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iliveinabox05
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted January 14, 2022 08:48 PM |
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Added a lot of the mappings for artifacts, but I haven't updated the list I posted in here.
I've converted / transferred the majority of the most used interactive map objects. And by that I mean the objects I've actually been seeing on the Heroes Chronicles maps we have been converting, so there are still some that I haven't gone through yet.
I'm actually looking to start into landscape objects now, which is going to make passability start to become fun. I'll have to start looking into an alogrithm to map passability from the h3 maps to passability in h4 maps. So I'll also probably want to start keeping a map of the h4 grids and their passability.
This would be a major step towards an H4 RMG as well. Little by little we're getting there 
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