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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Best Life 2lvl spells
Thread: Best Life 2lvl spells
Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted October 07, 2022 05:52 AM

Poll Question:
Best Life 2lvl spells

Life has 11 different 2lvl spells, I succeeded/managed to fill in the poll. Life looks like godlike alternatives are also hard choice.. But you, the voter, know better and tell to us, your the best.. When my Life 2lvl spell rankings are unknown I don't know.. I use everything.. Debate is also unknown..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

Responses:
Defender
Heal
Heavenly Shield
Martyr
Mirth
Retribution
Song of Peace
Choose and write your Ward
 View Results!

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 07, 2022 09:14 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 09:16, 07 Oct 2022.

Life spells level 2 are a summary of everything that is great in H4. A wealth of 11 spells, all thematically awesome, some good ones - but the guild may totally screw you.

Now: there are 11 spells, 4 of them Wards and the guild gives you 3 (if it's the main guild). At level 4 there are also 4 Mass Ward spells, only 7 spells and you get 2. The math here is that you'll have roughly a 50% chance to get EXACTLY one Ward spell and a 79% chance to get AT LEAST one Ward spell on level 2. There is a 57% chance to get exactly 1 Mass Ward spell on L4 and a 28% chance to get even 2 Mass Ward spells).

All that means, that you will hope to get a useful Ward spell on L2 and an even more useful Mass Ward spell on L4.

That said, it makes no sense to name THREE Life spells - it's only two, since it's likely you get a Ward spell and a Level 2 Ward spell's usefulness is quite limited. Pity, because Life Spells L2 are actually good and synergetic.
Song of Peace. Yes, please.
Defender. A level 2 Mass spell must have downsides and it has, because frankly - where are the Life troops profiting from that? Squires? Yes.  Else? None, because that spell is of use only when you DEFEND (that is, NOT attacking, NOT moving, NOT shooting, but expressly DEFENDING).
So it's a spell you do NOT want. It LOOKS great - but won't have any effect most of the time.
Martyr. Useful. There is a certain synergy with Heavenly Shield and Heal (cast Martyr on yourself, then Heavenly Shield or Heal) and even Retribution which can be used for other shenannigans as well.
Mirth may or may not do something.

We have a clear winner here which is Song of Peace. You'd probably want Martyr and either Heal or Heavenly Shield as well (but won't get it), and you'd take Retribution as well.

Since I'd gladly take every guild that includes SoP, in this case I'd say that SoP is the best Life L2 spell.

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Albyx
Albyx


Known Hero
posted October 07, 2022 01:34 PM

Life level 2 is very solid, the only downside in my opinion is a big number of spells, what adds more randomness.

Song of peace is always good, as all level 2 control spells are. I don't vote for it though, because it gets overshadowed by crazy strong high level Life spells. I always find myself casting confusion or wasps with high level chaos/nature mage, but I can't remember casting song of peace that often: life mage always has stronger options (even if we ignore OP Sanctuary).

I voted for a spell I underestimated for a loooong time. IMHO Martyr is one of the most abusable spells I've ever seen. It doesn't need other magic schools to work, pure Life magic is enough. Why is it so good? You can save your high level creatures or heroes by making squires take all the damage. It's like Sacrifice (level 5 spell btw), but even better, because it works preventively and for several turns.
For calculating damage targets' high defense is used, so squires serve as "pure hp storage", that can easily be resurrected later or even left dead to speed up army on the adventure map.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 07, 2022 07:23 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 19:24, 07 Oct 2022.

Albyx said:

I voted for a spell I underestimated for a loooong time. IMHO Martyr is one of the most abusable spells I've ever seen. It doesn't need other magic schools to work, pure Life magic is enough. Why is it so good? You can save your high level creatures or heroes by making squires take all the damage. It's like Sacrifice (level 5 spell btw), but even better, because it works preventively and for several turns.
For calculating damage targets' high defense is used, so squires serve as "pure hp storage", that can easily be resurrected later or even left dead to speed up army on the adventure map.

The problem with this view is that if that works it's an error of the other side, because you should simply attack the Martyrer directly. Squires aren't the most solid troop.
So the trouble is you don't HAVE to attack the guarded stack (you can also Dispel or Cancel it). these spells work way better in synergy. Martyr, Heal, Heavenly Shield, a fitting Ward, and even Defender. That's what makes the Life L2 spells so great thematically - but the structure makes it difficult to get that synergy really working.

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Albyx
Albyx


Known Hero
posted October 08, 2022 04:16 AM

JollyJoker said:

The problem with this view is that if that works it's an error of the other side, because you should simply attack the Martyrer directly. Squires aren't the most solid troop.
So the trouble is you don't HAVE to attack the guarded stack (you can also Dispel or Cancel it). these spells work way better in synergy. Martyr, Heal, Heavenly Shield, a fitting Ward, and even Defender. That's what makes the Life L2 spells so great thematically - but the structure makes it difficult to get that synergy really working.

You are probably right if we are talking about PvP, because nobody will attack unit protected by Martyr.
I'm more of PvE person, so from my perspective it works 90% of the time for AI

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 08, 2022 08:43 PM

But wouldn't that make "best spell" to "spell the AI isn't prepared to counter"? I mean, that's a bit lame.
I mean, the thing is, that Martyr is a cool spell, no matter what, but as you yourself wrote, it needs a second one (you yourself cited Resurrect, possibly from Angels, I cited Heal and Heavenly Shield).
And that synergy is the thing for Life. Slap Martyr on Angels and anyone, put a fitting Ward on Angels, wreak havoc with them, then resurrect the Martyr. Nice move.

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Albyx
Albyx


Known Hero
posted October 11, 2022 02:59 PM

JollyJoker said:
But wouldn't that make "best spell" to "spell the AI isn't prepared to counter"? I mean, that's a bit lame.

We have to deal with AI all the time, even in PvP. The best spell is the one that is the most useful in most cases. Clearing the map takes most of the game time and is very, very important.

We have the Efreet/Nightmare kind of discussion. Nightmares are good during all stages of the game, but not in final battle, the most important part of the match. Efreets on other hand do almost nothing against AI guards, but in final battle they go for heroes/casters/shooters, as well as they can make use of their fire shield.

The difference between situation I described right now and Martyr/Song of peace is that generally none of them are useful in final battle. Why use song of peace, if there is Sanctuary? Why use Martyr to save strong creatures, if there is Guardian angel and you are likely not to have weak creatures in your army to redirect damage on? So, if both spells are kinda useless against real opponent (if we assume you'll fight them 1, max 2 times throughout the game), the best spell out of life level 2 is the "spell AI isn't prepared to counter", as you said.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 12, 2022 08:00 AM

Depends on the map you play and how early you have contact. And even if you ARE Grandmaster Life and have the L5 guild you'll have just one spell, not two. I mean, sure if you have maximum morale and Initiative, the caster having the lowest (of those that counts) you can spam Sanctuary just fine. And if you have a second lower-level caster?

Anyway, you didn't answer to the main point here, just to the SIDE point. The main point is that Martyr needs a SECOND spell to work really well. So this would be a combo, as I said. And if you pick a combo you do what I do and rate the best mage guild you can get, not the best spell.

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