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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Robert Jordan, anyone?
Thread: Robert Jordan, anyone? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 11, 2002 11:37 AM

Robert Jordan, anyone?

I would have posted this in the Tavern, but there it would have no doubt drowned in the stream of spam and bar threads. So to keep it in sight for just a little longer, I post it in the library (books - library, I think I should get away with this)

I am a great fan of the WoT series, and have just startet reading it for the third or fourth time (can't remember exactly which) while waiting for book 10.

So, is anyone else waiting for book 10 in WoT? What do you think will happen? Will Moiraine return (or has she already)? Do you think Rand has gotten too powerful?


some major spoilers from book nine follows. Proceed at your own risk
SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!SPOILERS!!!

What's the challenge for Rand now that he's cleansed sai'din? Is Mat cool with being stuck with this Seanchan chick? And will Perrin lose contact with his human self?


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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 11, 2002 11:36 PM

Well, Moiraine will surely be rescued by Thom Merrilin, and marry him afterwards. But no idea whether this is intended for book 10.
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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted May 11, 2002 11:38 PM

c'mon kinslayer

don't spoil everything...
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 12, 2002 09:05 AM

Rescued by Thom Merrilin??? And her, marrying that old geezer?? And where, if I may ask, is she held captive??
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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 12, 2002 05:29 PM

Lith, after all, this is place is called Library of Enlightenment .

She´s probably in snakes&foxes land at the moment (= Tower of Genji).

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 13, 2002 07:00 PM

cauthon stays

Well, if the prophencies are right at all, Matt has to stay with the seanchan princess of the moons.

Rand's challenge is to stop getting manipulated and his attention diverted, Cleansing saidin wasn't permanent I think, or else some other type of taint will surface for the women(Black Ajah)... also his guilt over destroying the Aiel will bring lots of problems for him.

Perrin might temprarily lose his humanity, but it won't be Faile saving him this time I think, it'll be the other women who he thinks he hates.

There needs to be a confrontation with the Trollocs soon... all that inactivity in the Blight means something big.

More people will visit the Tower of Gengei I think- not sure if it'll be Thom or not. The Forsaken are also getting in good positions to betray Elaine and others.

The rebel Aiel will be a problem worse than the seanchan for Rand I think. Matt will deal with the seanchan mostly, though I wonder if the closed lands in the east might become more active as a problem for seanchan.

I've been reading this series since the start... everytime new book comes out have to reread all the previous ones. The last one was a little slow though, alot of filler, the action better justofy the buildup in the next one. WoT has to be one of the most ambitious series ever though, overall still very good, though after the 5th book kinda came undone.  

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 14, 2002 10:07 AM

Thanks for replying, Ichon.

I know what the prophecies say. That's why I asked if you think Mat was "cool" with "being stuck" with her, implying that he can't escape even if he should want it. A bit sad, though, Mat settling down, I always enjoyed him playing around with the women (noone else were doing it, so I guess he didn't have too much competition), and I can picture him now, turning into a bitter old grumpy man instead of the cynical, humourous, mischievious boy we all knew and loved.

And I know what you mean, I've just started reading the series again, and the first books are really great.

I seem to be one of the few, though, who don't think that the series has become "undone", as you call it. That thought hardly crossed my mind until I heard complaints from fellow readers. The only part of the criticism (spell check?) I agree on, is that Jordan seem to have to bring in harder adversaries from 'nowhere' to give Rand a challenge. After all, the forsaken doesn't seem like that much of a threat anymore...

Another point of critique is Jordan's somewhat jerky dialogue at times. Totally unnatural things to say will be said to get a point across to the reader or to give the reader information. But then again, writing credible dialogue is one of the hardest things about writing. So overall, Jordan is my second-most favourite fantasy writer.

Can fellow fantasy lovers out there recommend anything else?

I don't like fantasy mixed with sci-fi, and I have also tried and "rejected" writers like Katherine Kerr, Terry Brooks, Dennis L. McTiernan (or something like that).

I have read and enjoyed Robin Hobb, David Eddings, ++
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 14, 2002 05:20 PM

sure

Well, I think Matt will have his hands full with just the princess. He's also going to be discovering more of his past lives talents I think. Also I'm thinking he'll try to play with more women, but his princess is going keep a close eye on him... he'll end up playing with her all the time as a result. He's probably my favorite character though.

I think Rand's struggle will be mostly with himself. I actually like that idea... life is more like that than opposing any odds from outside yourself. Of course the foes will offer distraction and temptations to defeat himself, but beyond that and the final confrontation at Shayuol Gul, he probably won't have much challenge. I'm curious what will happens between the Black and White Towers though... could be alot of confrontation there.

I wonder if it's possible to return from the foxes dimension- if so, then Lanfear isn't quite gone. I've got the feeling people are underestimating the Forsaken. Rand has only defeated the weakest ones so far. I think his battles will be much more psychological than based on the power. Grendall is still waiting... and if Lanfear returns while Rand loses more of himself to the Dragon then he'll have trouble there too. Of course he's got 3 women to protect him somewhat and I think that is the lesson he's going to learn from that old Aes Sedai whose name I forget right now.

I'm not too keen on mixing scifi with fantasy, but one genre I really enjoy is the scifi when it's presented as fantasy. In other words the idea of technology so fantastic it's difficult to seperate from magic... or a population ruled by technology they don't see, and only percieve the results as magic. I've only read about 3 really good books from this perspective, but they were great. I can't recall the names right now, but one was, something "Helm" Another was about a world where humans had colonized, then forgotten about technology and a new human ship arrives and the crew set themselves up as Gods. The other one deals with time travel, science from the future so advanced that even in the 22nd century, people can't identify it.
I'll try and look those names up, I still have the books somewhere, but I left them with my sister boxed up when I last moved.

There is a thread somewhere in the community that mentions the names of just about every good author I've ever read. It's from about 6 months ago...

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 14, 2002 05:55 PM

forgot one

A book I just read recently I believe is called, "The Centurion" or somesuch. It was written awhile ago actually, but it is fantastic. It explores the hypothesis that the roman empire was formed due to the machinations of a secret cabal who had discovered a limited type of time travel by freezing the bodies of the best and brightest minds of antiquity, only to unfreeze them when their particular talents were needed at different times thru the empires rise and rule. A particular centurion is semi-recruited into their ranks as a potential ruler, but a power play between some of the nearly immortal preatorians(name of this group, this book was written before others used that name so it wasn't a plaigarism) leaves the centurion with just enough of this semi technology in his possesion to freeze himself a few times. He goes to britain and after a bad episode with his lover decides to freeze himself in a village where there is a sort of priesthood dedicated to the preatorians. Well, of course there are many troubles in britain through the ages and he is unfrozen a few times, establishing the legend of king arthur and other legends. Then also in the middle ages he is unfrozen because the climate in britain changes and he needs to go to the alps to find a place cold enough to keep him frozen. Well, his priesthood has become obssesed with keeping him alive and they begin lying to him. On his journey he has several encounters that will resound through the ages... Now the book at the point he reaches the alps is only 1/4 finished. It gets even better. Some of the destruction of the preatorians occured due to alien time travelers he was fighting in the future(sort of future anyway) he doesn't find this out until he finds himself there. Anyway, his body is discovered in the alps in the late 21st century, the only thing is... he's not the only preatorian to have survived. The power struggle is continuing, pitting some followers of various preatorians who believe they are gods against the high tech corporations that rule in that time. Now the aliens come into it- Russians find an alien shipwreck in Siberia and start harvesting the technology from it. Corporations in the west grow suspicious of this new technologies source, and coincidentally one of the biggest corporations is ruled by the centurions priesthood who began it to research refrigeration technologies in order to preserve the centurions life, but alot of the managers in this corporation think the centurion is a myth, but there are a few fanatics who know he exists- anyway, he is revived(a subplot here is that it isn't really himself that is revived, but no one knows that, anyway)in order to sign a contract allowing the corporation to change the way it does business(the managers who disbelieve the myth think he was established as a clause in their charter to keep the family which started the corporation in power). Anyway, once they are convinced he is actually from roman times when more preatorians come into the open, they still think he is a primitive and won't understand anything and be easily manipulated... well- the alien ship the russians are harvesting isn't really wrecked, and the owners of that ship are still very much alive and want it back when they realize what has become of it. In a paradox, it was the centurion himself who caused it to be abandoned when he goes back in time to fight the aliens because they return wanting their ship back... anyway, I read this book 3 times in a row. It's very good- it could even have become a series I think with the ending that is given, though I'll let you read it if you can find it.  

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 14, 2002 09:59 PM

Thanks for another reply. I'll read that Centurion book if I should see it somewhere. Now, I wonder, are these few the only ones who has a relationship with Jordan's books?

And if Lanfear is alive, that pretty much has to imply that Moiraine is as well, unless one kills the other in that fox dimension.
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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 14, 2002 11:44 PM

Quote: I've got the feeling people are underestimating the Forsaken. Rand has only defeated the weakest ones so far.

Rand has already defeated the three strongest Forsaken: Ishamael, Lanfear and Aginor. Not his fault that the DO brought them back from the dead (in Lanfear´s case we don´t know how she returned). He also balefired Rahvin, who certainly wasn´t one of the weaker Forsaken either.

Quote: Unless one kills the other in that fox dimension.

About as likely as a love affair between Mat and Nynaeve. Lanfear is back already since book 9, caught in Ishamael´s mindtrap and serving him, and Moiraine is prophesized to come back and marry old Thom. As Thom is also prophesized to something like 'drag the blue crystal out of the fire', it´s almost obvious that he will play a major role in her rescue/return.
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 15, 2002 04:16 PM

weakest are first to fall

Lews- I think you're right about Lanfear and Moiraine, but Rand didn't really defeat Lanfear, and Aginor might be more dangerous in her new form than the old one. Rahvin was strong in saidin, but a fool otherwise. Rand did defeat the only forsaken to escape the seal, but I really do think that Grendall and Lanfear will be his worst enemies. He has a problem with women, and Lanfear will cause the Dragon to rise, while Grendall will exploit his guilt. I'd hope that's how it's written anyway...

I'm wondering about new enemies a bit though, if that Fade who is connected to the source more strongly than any Forsaken isn't unique... alot more in store for Rand & Co.

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 16, 2002 10:39 PM

You´re right about the Forsaken, Ichon. But I´m quite sure that there won´t be any other super-fades. Shaidar Haran is unique, the name alone very strongly suggests it. And the way he acts since his creation at the beginning of book 6 shows him as the Dark One´s hand, and not just an improved shadowspawn creation.
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joney18
joney18

Tavern Dweller
posted May 19, 2002 03:35 AM

I am actualy TRYING to make a Wheel of time campaign for heroes4. It is pretty damn hard, the main problem being the Aeil they have no good heroes 4 substitute. Some of the others though were not to bad Trollocs=Orcs/minataur Mydraal=vampire, Ash'man=monks+prists, whitecloaks=crusaders. It is coming along I doubt I will get far in the series before I have to stop because of the Aiel issue. Right now i am at Shadar Logoth and trying to figure out how the hell to use the map editor. I also am hoping for better hero pictures, some of the current ones work but otherwise they suck.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted May 19, 2002 11:41 AM

I should think berserkers would be appropriate for Aiel.

It's an interesting project, though. Perrin should definitely be a druid, summoning wolves. The girls should be priestesses.

Check out the female sorcerer Mayweda for Aviendha.

Lord Paulus would fit Mat nicely.

Elyas could be Elleshar the Druid.

Just some suggestions...

Edit well
DonGio
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joney18
joney18

Tavern Dweller
posted May 19, 2002 03:24 PM

the problem with perin as a druid is that none look even vaguely like him.I did put Palu as Rand and an archer as May. He was hard to do becase none look like him.So i chose Ihvor. I put the knight Christian as perrin because of the whole beard thing and figured i would give him nature magic a little into the campaign.I also chose the pries Nanett as Elyane and Geneniene the mage as Egwen. Dallas the knight as Lan and Minasli the mage as Moiraine. Those two fit perfectly. The problem wit the aiel as berserkers is they seemto week and stupid to be Aiel, and they don't use spears. Oh well lack of options I can fix it later on when an expansion pack comes out.
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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted May 30, 2002 11:06 PM

I just wanna thank all you guys for introducing me to Robert Jordan.  I started reading it thinking "Hmmm...." Now I'm really enjoying the WoT series.. cheers, guys.. I owe u one!
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted May 31, 2002 05:02 AM

prepare to lose alot of sleep

Reading the whole series from start to present takes alot of time, even the first 4 books which I think are the best take a couple days reading straight thru.

Have fun...

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Avallach
Avallach


Hired Hero
Disputo ergo sum.
posted June 05, 2002 10:56 AM
Edited By: Avallach on 5 Jun 2002

Quote:
WoT has to be one of the most ambitious series ever though, overall still very good, though after the 5th book kinda came undone.

Good call... though I'd say that it was during the fifth that it came undone. The Shadow Rising was (in my opinion) the pinnacle. Lord of Chaos had its moments, and is my second favourite of the books, but in terms of the series as a whole it was into the decline. Winters Heart was a big disappointment. Only one thing of import really happened (the scene at the end, of course). Even that scene was disappointing... he had been building up to it for so long through the series, and then in WH it was like "let's just get this over with". Highly anti-climatic, and poorly written. And it gave too much ammunition to those anti-Taimandreders .

[edit]
***SPOILERS***
Quote:
Aginor might be more dangerous in her new form than the old one.

Actually, Aginor is toast. Aginor was Osan'gar (aka Dashiva), and died again at the end of WH. The remaining one of the 'gars is Balthamel, aka Halima. I'd say he/she is actually more of a threat to the Aes Sedai than to Rand. Rand at least could detect his channeling, whereas the Aes Sedai would be practically helpless.
[/edit]


Quote:
Can fellow fantasy lovers out there recommend anything else?

Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion . Best. Fantasy. Ever.

Other than that, there's one I read recently called The Lightstone by David Zindell. First in a series, so it will mean more waiting, but it's worth it I think .

A series that I haven't read yet (will soon), but that I always see the most recommendations for, is the Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman. Might want to give that a try.


If you're interested, there's a large WoT discussion board here: [url]http://209.191.163.241/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3[/url]
I don't post there much anymore as everything's been pretty much done to death (you'll find a lot of OT there now). But you might want to check it out when Crossroads of Twilight is released.

There's also the FAQ, well worth reading if you haven't come across it already: [url]http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/0_admin/0.01_intro.html[/url]

Finally, for other book recommendations and the like I'd suggest Juima: [url]http://juima.org/board/content.asp?pageid=5[/url]
Specifically the 'Just Imagine' board. The site is only getting started, so replies might be slow, but there are people there who really know what they're talking about. Good place for general science-fiction/fantasy discussion.
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted June 05, 2002 12:06 PM

good catch

Yeah, I meant to say Halima, but could only remember Aginor's name- thought she had been he. As for Halima's danger... Rand needs some of the Aes Sedai 1 in particular who Halima has easy access to. It might not be a direct danger, but it's a very serious danger to Rand nonetheless.

Good links you posted there.

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