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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Unused content - Watermill building for Fortress
Thread: Unused content - Watermill building for Fortress
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 24, 2023 07:46 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 14:18, 25 Jan 2023.

Unused content - Watermill building for Fortress

Apparently the game includes a graphic for an unused but planned building:
Watermill for Fortress
Since HoTA don't like Fortress for some reason (but yes very much upgrading Tower, for some reason), the building has remained unimplemented even though it has a very nifty animation and is integrated to the town screen.



The existence of this Watermill confirms what I have always been saying, H3 Fortress doesn't have enough unique functions. This shows that more were planned.

Now the questions: What is this building supposed to do?

Something simple, like +1000 gold weekly (as map Water Wheels?), which was considered underwhelming when the capitol gives 4000 per day? (could have still been nice)

A variation of this? For example, +1000 gold weekly for every town you own would be nicer.

Or perhaps, something completely different?

Who knows? Who can speculate?

What would you like the Watermill to do?

Do you think NWC had it planned, or did they just make the anim and coudn't think anything good? Did they forget? Run out of time?

Very strange is that despite the existence of this, I have never once seen it discussed nor could I find any information anywhere on the net.
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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted January 24, 2023 07:59 PM

NimoStar said:
+1000 gold weekly (as map Water Wheels?)


cool find
probably gold as its attached to the hall
maybe 1k gold per day?
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 25, 2023 02:10 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 14:21, 25 Jan 2023.

Quote:
cool find
probably gold as its attached to the hall
maybe 1k gold per day?


1k per day would be quite strong

On the other hand, it could be that it would work as a second resource silo. Hydras need Sulfur after all while the regular one just gives +1 ore and wood, and sulfur is known to form in swamps and other wetlands.

I would even be happy with it just giving +1000 gold per week, though, as long as it was cheap (2500 gold 5 ore 5 wood?) - Like a more useful version of the absolutely terrible (and that needs to be buffed) Mystic Pond, which is almost always better to never build since at average it takes over two months to pay for itself.

Another possibility which is more balanced than 1000 per day, I would say, is 2000 at the start of each week. After all, it has two wheels
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heymlich
heymlich


Famous Hero
posted January 25, 2023 03:30 PM

Who cares about 1000 gold? Many players don't even build the capitol.

+2 Gorgons/week. That I would care about

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ArdentWyrm
ArdentWyrm


Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
posted January 25, 2023 06:53 PM

Yeah, but waterwheel boosting growth is weird, just weird.
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https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 25, 2023 07:54 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 20:31, 25 Jan 2023.

heymlich said:
Who cares about 1000 gold? Many players don't even build the capitol.

+2 Gorgons/week. That I would care about


The capitol is very expensive, while this building could be cheap and just build a day you have nothing better to do

I agree tho that it would be preferable to have other functions, which is why I said the +1 sulfur as well. Any combinations of these effects are posisble, such as: Day 1 of the week +2000 gold +2 sulfur.

I also thought about it giving ballista since it's besides the First Aid Tent, but that war machine is soo underwhelming...

PS:  Probably my final design would make it alternate between giving +1000 gold one day and +1 sulfur the next. Upon clicking the Watermill it would tell you what resource did it provide that day.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 25, 2023 08:36 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 20:48, 25 Jan 2023.

Have you guys seen this page, it's quite interesting imo.
heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Unused_content
(I wonder what all those unused spellcasting animations were for, most of those units does'nt even cast spells.)

Would also have been very cool if centaurs were able to shoot. Would have given Rangers more reason to have Archery.

Next thing for HotA to realize must be Market of Time and perhaps this Fortress watermill.

EDIT: I just realised you linked to that page in your opening post NimoStar.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 25, 2023 09:24 PM

I think HotA would need a market of time to buy time to their next release because they seem quite almost dead...

But, I'm pretty certain something relatively simple could be done to enable this as a mod for VCMI, for example
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 25, 2023 09:49 PM

HD Mod keeps writing about future compatibility with HotA, so I am certain there will be an update at some point, but it's been 3+ years already.

Has anyone tried inserting ballista, ammo cart, first aid tent, spell book and grail as adventure map objects? Are they fully functional? (Have'nt had time to test it myself yet.)

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heymlich
heymlich


Famous Hero
posted January 25, 2023 10:35 PM

Phoenix4ever said:

Has anyone tried inserting ballista, ammo cart, first aid tent, spell book and grail as adventure map objects? Are they fully functional? (Have'nt had time to test it myself yet.)



The war machine factory works fine (at least in unmodded HoMM3). Don't know if there is a way to add spellbooks.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 25, 2023 11:20 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 23:22, 25 Jan 2023.

I think the Grail worked fine as a map object, though I don't remember if I was trying that on WoG or not.

Still sad nobody even tried Watermill in like 26 years

***

On the other hand, I do believe centaurs should be able to shoot. The anims are there. They can in other games (including Heroes 4 and Heroes 2). The whole "Rampart is a Ranger town with arrows and such" is heavily undermined by having a single, low-level (although very good for its level) shooting creature.

Probably Centaurs would be ok with havingj ust 4 Shots and No Melee Penalty, but this does mean that Rampart should be somewhat nerfed in some other way (less oppressive Grand Elves?)
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 25, 2023 11:41 PM

NimoStar said:
Still sad nobody even tried Watermill in like 26 years

But it does'nt actually do anything, does it? It is just graphic that was abandoned by original developers, right?

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 26, 2023 01:38 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 01:39, 26 Jan 2023.

Yes, but even then. People be making entire towns from scratch with all town screens buildings music and creatures, but can't implement an existing graphic which was intended to be used in the base game...
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Liso1
Liso1


Known Hero
posted February 06, 2023 08:25 AM

I asked Greg Fulton directly about this discovered building and here is his response:
Quote:
As for your question, I very vaguely remember this particular ‘element’.  Obviously, it is a Watermill of some sort, and I think it was supposed to be used for the Resource Silo or the Blacksmith.  I suspect we thought it was too difficult to see and click, so we ignored it and crafted other elements to represent the Resource Silo and Blacksmith.  Hope this answers your question.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2023 04:33 PM

NimoStar said:
Yes, but even then. People be making entire towns from scratch with all town screens buildings music and creatures, but can't implement an existing graphic which was intended to be used in the base game...


This graphic was implemented in vcmi for ages. It does nothing, just shows up after building Capitol.
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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2023 04:56 PM

I guess it makes sense that it was going to be a resource silo. Before reading Greg’s response, I was thinking the building could  boost lizardmen production a bit. The other towns with only one ranged unit have some sort of offensive skill tied to the unit, leaving lizardmen in the dust a little bit. A building giving them a few extra per week coulda made up for that.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2023 05:58 PM

Hardly. Resource silos and creature hordes are enhanced versions of existing buildings, not diffirent structures.

I think, this animation was rejected (and forgotten to clean up) because someone said that town didn't need another (bad) animation that could affect performance and take additional memory of 90's computers.
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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2023 06:07 PM

avatar said:
I think, this animation was rejected (and forgotten to clean up) because someone said that town didn't need another (bad) animation that could affect performance and take additional memory of 90's computers.

lol
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