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| Thread: Bron: The most unique hero? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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NimoStar
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Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 23, 2023 04:44 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 06:31, 23 Jan 2023.
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Poll Question:
Bron: The most unique hero?
This guy comes with Basilisks. He is the only hero that starts with a level 4 unit. All other heroes are capped at level 3.
The Basilisks replace Lizard Warriors and not Serpent Flies, giving you a hefty complement of them while keeping the fast, flying dispel-casters.
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Bron
By being a specialist, the +1 speed to basilisks is useful in making them hit more tactically with their stone gaze.
A good strategy is dividing the starting 4-7 basilisks amongst preferably 4-6 stacks, including stacks of a single basilisk.
Even with only 20%, you are likely to get a stone gaze per turn by attacking alone (they also get to retaliate). The Stone Gaze lasts for 3 turns allowing to stack up to 3+ Stone Gazes in effect at a single time (!) on average probabilities on extended fights on the early game, as long as you have 5 basilisk stacks; allowing you to basically paralyze opposing neutrals.
At further levels, the increased attack and survivability of Basilisks will also help, including to get more uses of their abilities in combat.
This hero also gives something more "special" to Fortress town, since normally they don't have much unique bonuses other than their strong, ability-focused creatures.
(Hota kinda ruined Bron by making the overpowered Illor which has specialty in a more OP 4th level creature which flies, is super fast, cheap, upgrades into attacks twice and has a horde building for almost double growth, also the hero has Tactics and Offense; yay, OP cove strikes again, and also Bron got changed the cool Resistance which protects from every magic including creature ones, to the uncool Interference that only works against enemy heroes with high SP. A positive point: Bron will 100% start with Basilisks and not "only" 88% of the time, and the "Illor" guy replaces the level 2 stacks with less Stormbirds [3-5] than there were Crewmates unlike Bron which keeps the same quantity [like that would compensate making Bron into an un-unique wimp with a fake skill, compared with an artificially stronger specialist for artificially beefed town]. Basilisks have a small but symbolically significant chance of defeating Ayssids by randomly paralyzing them on retaliation [which is still better than all other 4th level creatures which have 0% chance]. Oh well, what does HotA not ruin? At the end of the day it's just another mod. Bron will forever reign as the most special hero in vanilla H3 forever!)
Bonus meme from the darkest and dankest web:
This informative picture correctly identifies Bromine and Barium, both important elements in a basilisk's petrifying venom, as we all well know 
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 23, 2023 07:33 AM |
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I liked your story, it was a good read.
The question is if "Bron's Basilisks" was actually a mistake made by original developers...
Or perhaps we could ask why was Bron the only level 4 specialist starting with level 4 creatures?
Also where is the Medusa specialist?
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 23, 2023 10:40 AM |
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Yes he is!
I wish Vokial started with vampires or Sorsha with swordsmen too...
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 23, 2023 12:25 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Yes he is!
I wish Vokial started with vampires or Sorsha with swordsmen too...
I wish there was a gremlin specialist instead of the idiotic gargoyle guy.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 23, 2023 01:10 PM |
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Bron is sucking hero.. No medusas, when you find a Ammo Cart, and you can play around the map.. Then Gargoyles are awesome, thus Cyra.. So player must to strike Gargoyles.. Heh attacker being! You can bully a player, when you use only one Gargoyle.. Then opponent player use a Magic Arrow or archers or soldiers hit a Gargoyle..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 23, 2023 04:17 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 16:35, 23 Jan 2023.
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Quote:
The question is if "Bron's Basilisks" was actually a mistake made by original developers...
I don't think it could be done entirely by mistake. Maybe some Beta change that they didn't reverse?
I wonder if Bron average starting army can beat for example specialty Troglodytes or Skeletons.
Problem with level 1 specialists is too many troops. They should have a regular army, they already have level 1 units. After all bron doesn't need *all* slots in basilisk stacks, one is enough.
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Combine Bron's basilisks with early Wyverns for a really powerful Fortress rush army composition.
It is also reasonably possible to get early Basilisk Pit (It is quite cheap and with few requisites, unlike mage tower), specially if your map contains treasures you can exploit with your instant army.
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And yeah I would like a Medusa specialist too, since Medusas aren't very good (low HP and stats) that would not be overpowered.
But, I think if standarized, level 4 starting creatures for specialists should replace level 3 stack and not level 2 stack (except in Bron of course ).
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 23, 2023 08:14 PM |
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I think it might be a mistake actually. Bron starts with 4-7 basilisks in his second slot, that's where other Fortress heroes would have 4-7 lizardmen. They probably inserted the wrong creature id, but maybe decided not to fix this little bug after all. But I don't mind it, Fortress could use a little power and it's quite unique and interesting.
Actually more unique starting armies could have been interesting. One slot of level 4 units for all level 4 specialists would have been perfectly fine.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 23, 2023 09:33 PM |
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I'd like the idea of EVERY creature specialst starting with the creature they are specialst in.
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ArdentWyrm
Famous Hero
King of the Elder Dragons
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posted January 23, 2023 11:57 PM |
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Me too, like in h5 one sylvan hero starts with a UNICORN, a lvl5 creature for starting army, but anyways I think Bron is really cool.
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Torment is blinding. It lies. Its pollution steals my sense. It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
- Kralkatorrik
https://dragcave.net/user/ArdentWyrm
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 24, 2023 12:39 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 00:40, 24 Jan 2023.
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Phoenix4ever said:
I think it might be a mistake actually. Bron starts with 4-7 basilisks in his second slot, that's where other Fortress heroes would have 4-7 lizardmen. They probably inserted the wrong creature id, but maybe decided not to fix this little bug after all. But I don't mind it, Fortress could use a little power and it's quite unique and interesting.
Actually more unique starting armies could have been interesting. One slot of level 4 units for all level 4 specialists would have been perfectly fine.
I don't think it's an error at all, kind of strange that they would *just* insert the ID of basilisks for the basilisk specialist, and also that this never happened again and wasn't patched or changed in the expansions.
It's just quirky but seems it was designed this way.
Quote:
I'd like the idea of EVERY creature specialst starting with the creature they are specialst in.
Starting with even one level 7 creature would be too much, and I'm in favor of more level 7 specialists existing (this one exists and wasn't unbalanced for tournament play)
Even one level 6 creature is basically worth as much as an starting army in general, though I can see the entire army being replaced by 1-2 wyverns; not so by a Hydra
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Never changing = never improving
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 02:05 AM |
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Edited by heymlich at 02:05, 24 Jan 2023.
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JollyJoker said:
I'd like the idea of EVERY creature specialst starting with the creature they are specialst in.
Forget about Gremlins. Now I want a Titan specialist. grin:
But there are tier 6 creature specialists. Even if they get only one, it would still be too much. Cyclops might be ok because they are trash, but at least the Naga and Black Knight specialists would be OP.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 24, 2023 02:07 AM |
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I think lvl 1-4 specialists getting the creatures would be cool.
Vokial has to start with vampires, dammit! 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 02:11 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Vokial has to start with vampires, dammit!
Put him in a prison. Then you can change the starting army. 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 24, 2023 02:12 AM |
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heymlich said:
Drakon-Deus said:
Vokial has to start with vampires, dammit!
Put him in a prison. Then you can change the starting army.
Sure. But it would be even cooler for him to start with them like Bron starts with Basiliks.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 24, 2023 07:51 AM |
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So what do we think?
Level 4 creatures: 
Level 5 creatures:
Level 6 creatures: /
(Level 7 creatures: )
Hex editing starting armies is possible, though it's a bit of work...
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted January 24, 2023 07:54 AM |
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I think level 1 to 4 creature specialists definitely.
Although I understand why there is no Gremlin specialist.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 24, 2023 08:01 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 08:02, 24 Jan 2023.
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Quote:
Vokial has to start with vampires, dammit!
Actually woudn't be OP as regular Vampires don't drain life, you would still need to get to Vampire Lords and for that a lot of building and resources. Starting 3-5 regular vampires woudn't be different from the Stormbirds or whatever.
Quote:
I understand why there is no Gremlin specialist.
Not a problem if level 1 specialists would just have regular armies...
Quote:
So what do we think?
Needs a poll for "maximum permissible level of starting creature"
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Never changing = never improving
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 02:59 PM |
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There are so many things "OP" in the game - or UP -, and many creature specialists start with crappy skills, so what's wrong with letting an L6 specialst start with one (instead of the L2s)?
OP. Pfft.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2023 03:03 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Although I understand why there is no Gremlin specialist.
Because Tower herroes have to be snowty? Honestly, if the Ranger class was with tower, I wouldn't pick a gremlin specialist over Mephala or Kyrre. But as it is, a Gremlin specialist would far outclass any other tower hero.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 24, 2023 06:16 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
There are so many things "OP" in the game - or UP -, and many creature specialists start with crappy skills, so what's wrong with letting an L6 specialst start with one (instead of the L2s)?
OP. Pfft.
Well, I wasn't the one that said it was OP, but "other things are op" is faulty reasoning. Tournament rules ban plenty of things in the base game for being game-breaking.
I would say that the biggest problem with level 6 specialists would be in the realm of lossless battles. It would be easy to take on guards just by exploiting the fact that some lvl6 creatures have very high base HP (and defense). So your lvl 6 creature can take some hits and retaliations while the rest of the army pummels the enemy. Replacing a single stack of level 2 creatures also doesn't take into accont the great investment in buildings that getting a level 6 creature would normally require (wyverns excluded, but they are also very weak)
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Never changing = never improving
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