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| Thread: Level 1 town units VS slowest town units | |
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 13, 2023 10:53 PM |
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Poll Question:
Level 1 town units VS slowest town units
This might seem like a strange question, but which unit do you consider most useful in a town, level 1 units or the slowest unit in town?
For example Centaur Captains VS Dendroid Soldiers or Oceanids VS Seamen in HotA?
I am not sure, cause I feel like level 1 units die extremely easy and are always targeted by arrow towers and spells, but slowest units are so slow that they often don't see much action.
I guess I could also ask this way:
What is the least useful unit of each town?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 14, 2023 09:59 PM |
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Because of dumbed AI.. An example Gameboy H2, AIs prefer to kill stronger creatures.. So without loss/defeat.. You can't use spells than only AIs.. A bug! Ok? Then what Heroes 3 is like, but in the WoG, you can put scripts, I tried different AI value, fight, adventure.. AIs killed stronger monsters, what's the good, but it meant also neutral.. So :/ Thus AIs failed sometimes.. Benefit what? Emptied monsters, if you're a slow player, you can't get a experience or join them.. But my map is destroyed, thus broken motherboard..
Level 1 is a good.. You can beat the lots of Ancient Behemoths, you use only swarm between zounds of skeletons, if you split them.. Or smaller skeletons, if you've a Animate Dead..
Ok a good question  I don't vote.. Ok
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted November 14, 2023 11:02 PM |
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Its is trud that often battle ends before slow units can do something. So It means that important is no only unit strenght and speed too. Fastest are more usefull but have biggest casualties too. Of course shooters are ,fast' too. Slow unit is rare using unit too. Second problem is always when we have strong shooters. Slowers are simply destroyed.
But second side is that haste gives them a lot. Or teleport.
But ,slow' unit is too small charakteristic. We have completly useles zombies ( stats are failed - damages and growth) and wevhave very good one too. Ents and ogres. Golems and dwarves rather in the middle.
The same 1st lvl. We have fast but completly failed imps and rather slow pikemans but very strong.
Fast unit needs some power to be usefull. Eg centaurs flies or griffins but not pixies or goblins.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 14, 2023 11:30 PM |
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@Baronus Yeah Teleport is a way to overcome slow speed and it's nice with hydras, gorgons etc.
Since many of you agree it varies from town to town, I would like to hear what you consider the least "usable" unit for each town. 
Let me start with one I think you'll agree with: Necropolis - Zombies.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 15, 2023 06:42 PM |
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I feel the "main question" is a bit tricky. In terms of gameplay, slow speed always means some amount of bulk in this game, making those creatures the most preferable targets when your forces must receive hits. Oftenly, it's these bulky creatures that even take fatal strikes in order to save more precious creatures. Early Marksman stack can really get you going in the early stages of the game, but they will not achieve this goal themselves, as they will need their trusty Pikemen will keep the shooters safe. So even if a creature would be solely dedicated to drain the damage and even die, that doesn't necessary make the creature non-useful.
Obviously, something is always "least useful." But just wanted to point this out.
Phoenix4ever said:
Let me start with one I think you'll agree with: Necropolis - Zombies.
The Walking dead are indeed the worst, and to some extend probably least useful among all of the towns. Sadly, they don't really have a good place in the game, it's more preferable just turn them into skellies right away, so they will hit harder.
Castle - Griffins. Pretty averarage stats all around, but for the most part, it's the build path that sets them down. Griffins are not needed to be build, and you should really upgrade them in order to get something out of the unit. So in most games they're not as vital for gameplay like Pikeman, that are actually useful in order to utilize the Marksmen properly.
Rampart - Well, Dwarfs, whereas they are good at hives and in general taking damage. Resistance can be understood lore-wise, but in terms of gameplay, this is probably one of the least suitable creatures to carry the ability. But like said, Dwarfs are good creatures to drain damage, and have saved zillion Centaur lives among the history of Homm3.
Tower - This one is a bit though, but it's between Stone Golems and Gargoyles.
Inferno - In Sod? Magog. In Hota? Imps. Even during early game, they're not really good. They don't really excel at defending the now-buffed Magogs, but they never really are a damage threat.
Dungeon - On paper it looks like Trogs, but in the practice their amount is so high that they can really open up the map in the early game. Medusa because of the low amount of shots?
Stronghold - Goblins, they're slightly better Imps, but it's not saying much. Early Stronghold is about Wolfs, so the dudes than don't get to ride one are not that useful even in the early game.
Fortress - Probably Lizards, altrhough I must say have started to like them more than I did before.
Conflux - Earth elementals.
Cove - Crew mates, whereas by no means a bad unit, the games don't tend to center around them.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 15, 2023 07:12 PM |
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Nice analysis Hourglass.
2 questions:
Why do you think griffins are the worst in Castle? Are the games you play really that short?
They have the highest growth of all level 3 units, they are pretty fast, flies and have unlimited retaliations when upgraded.
I would go with pikemen, yes they can protect your archers, but so can swordsmen and they do it a lot better. Pikemen are both level 1 and the slowest units in Castle, so that's 2 negatives for them imo.
Second question:
How can you say lizardmen are the worst Fortress unit? Without them Fortress would have 0 ranged units. Lizardmen also have pretty good stats and come in high numbers, with Bless they can do a ton of damage.
I would go with gnolls here, again level 1, slowest speed tied with lizardmen, low growth and low numbers from heroes and 0 abilities.
Regarding troglodytes/medusas, maybe troglodytes just barely manages to win this one, but only because they come in very high numbers.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 16, 2023 07:15 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Why do you think griffins are the worst in Castle? Are the games you play really that short?
They have the highest growth of all level 3 units, they are pretty fast, flies and have unlimited retaliations when upgraded.
I would go with pikemen, yes they can protect your archers, but so can swordsmen and they do it a lot better. Pikemen are both level 1 and the slowest units in Castle, so that's 2 negatives for them imo.
I basically thought how much usage of each creature could see play on average games, or how much advantage having a spesific creature brings. I tried to focus on the side of "sees play/has imporant role" rather than thinking stats etc.
I have currently been playing h3dm1 and 6lm10a templates with XL+U size, on expert difficulty. I don't tend to like much bigger maps than that, as I like kinda play each game on one sitting.
About Griffins, they are not bad creatures by any means, it's really just the build path when you think about it:
The normal Castle build looks something like this for me:
Valeska start (so, only couple of Griffins are gained from the Castle hero in tavern)
Day 1 Upgrage Archers.
Day 2 Blacksmith
Day 3 Barracks
At this point, you should look that what's possible. The optimal route would be to be able to grab Angels during week 1, so:
Day 4 Mage guild
Day 5 Monastery
Day 6 You could in theory build Portal of Glory here, but it's often not possible. Marketplace is pretty often the choice, and can happen earlier in the build too. Same goes for Town hall.
Day 7 POG
Alternatively, you could look at your situation after the Barracks is build, realize the Angels aren't a realistic plan, and aim for Cavaliers by the end of the week.
I occasionally do build the Griffins on the week one, but as you can see the build path is simply not very favorable for the big birds, as their building isn't required for anything, and is build after
the tier 4 dwelling. And after the week 1, the it's 7 Griffins, which as non-upgraded units are not doing very much. Maybe their usual fate is to be used as baits, which will often get them all killed.
So it's not that they're awful units, it's really the build path of Castle town. And the fact that Angels are so dominant that it's worth pushing for them in the first week even.
Phoenix4ever said:
Second question:
How can you say lizardmen are the worst Fortress unit? Without them Fortress would have 0 ranged units. Lizardmen also have pretty good stats and come in high numbers, with Bless they can do a ton of damage.
I would go with gnolls here, again level 1, slowest speed tied with lizardmen, low growth and low numbers from heroes and 0 abilities.
Early Fortress is basically all about Gnolls. The Wystan and Lizard plan don't tend to have enough stopping power in order to do decently in the early game. Lizards are bit of a sidestack, they can soften enemy stack so it's safer for Gnolls to take it out.
I guess you could some else creature from the Fortress line up, but I would not personally name Gnolls, as they're simply that important for Fortress early game.
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