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| Thread: HotA 1.7.0 is out - Factory creature analysis |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 01, 2024 11:59 AM |
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HotA 1.7.0 is out - Factory creature analysis
Hiya guys. Wanna check out how the new lineup fares in comparison to the rest of the cast?
These numbers assume you use a hero with 0 ATT/0 DEF and attack an unit with 20 DEF / get attacked by a unit with 20 ATT, because you have to assume something for comparison purposes.
DPW is whole weekly population's damage per week under these conditions,
EHP is effective HP of the weekly pop under these conditions.
Tier 1 - Halfings/Halfing Grenadiers
Factory's tier 1 unit is a very solid shooter, its whole population actually does more damage per week than many tier 2, 3 and 4 shooter units. Those stats include the -20% defense special for upgraded units (so the difference will be smaller vs. low def units of course, but not by much - against 0 defense they have 47 dpw, which is still above Ice Elementals (at 42) and Medusa Queens (also at 42).
They are however very frail and quite expensive (over 50% more expensive than master gremlin's entire pop). They are however 1 speed point above master gremlins.
Because there's also a halfing specialist (Henrietta), this allows Factory to have a strong ranged unit start, although Henrietta starts with skills you may not want on your main guy - Leadership and Luck.
Very solid unit, probably the best T1 in the game.
Tier 2 - Mechanics/Engineers
Statistically there's nothing special about those units. They are fairly slow (7 speed upg) walkers with unimpressive offensive and defensive stats. Their main utility lies in their repair ability that can repair/resurrect mechs, and it's quite powerful (20 hp per unit). Unfortunately, those guys have to walk next to the target to repair it, which makes it clunky. Because of AI's preference of attacking Factory's tier4 units (Automatons) while shooters are not available, however, it is pretty easy to use those units as baits and repair them before combat ends, leading to powerful and unique map clearing possibilities.
In the final fight, your opponent has to factor in those units and their repair ability which can draw attention away from your heavier hitters for a turn or two.
They also have a breath attack, but due to their speed it's hard to use properly (and can become a nuisance on retaliations).
A niche, but interesting unit.
Tier 3 - Armadillos/Bellwether Armadillos
Worst unit of the tier and arguably one of the worst units in the game. A slow (6 speed upg) walker with zero special abilities and unimpressive stats, even with a 1000 gold horde building purchased. Skip.
Tier 4 - Automatons/Sentinel Automatons
While these units are walkers again, they are quite interesting: mechanical (can be repaired by engineers), no retal, decent stats, 9 upgraded speed. I haven't tested the explosion stuff yet, so I'm unsure how good it is. Sorry about that.
They attract AI a lot, which makes them great in tandem with Engineers (and tactics).
Very decent unit.
Tier 5 - Sandworms/Olgoi-Khorkois
This is a fairly fast (10 upg) teleporter that is immune to blind spell and with decent stats. Its special is a bit awkward: it can consume corpses to gain extra attacks, but it cannot be used together with an attack command iirc, so in most cases you have to waste a turn in order to gain an attack the next turn, unless there's more corpses at one place for those units to eat, making it intriguing but very hard to actually use and somewhat a gimmick, though you can, of course, send single tier 1 units (with tactics) to die en masse on the front and then eat their bodies, allowing this unit to attack several times. However, it will still attack just 1 target, making it - again - pretty niche.
A pretty good unit though, even without that gimmick.
Tier 6 - Gunslingers/Bounty Hunters
A powerful shooter that is also made of glass; it has survivability of (roughly) a population of Harpy Hags. Ugh.
It does come with a very cool special that allows those units to shoot first when attacked by another shooter. With enough of those, you can clear most shooters on the map without losses; the upgraded variant doesn't have a cap on how many times it can use the special retal. Meaning that it can clear neutral shooters if they get divided into 7 stacks with ease.
Tier 7 - Couatls/Crimson Couatls and Dreadnoughts/Juggernaugts
Factory does have two level 7 dwellings.
The Couatls are fast (15 speed upg) fliers with unremarkable stats, making them a slightly more durable Bone/Ghost Dragon without the aging special.
While unimpressive statistically, they do offer the necessary speed.
Their special makes them invulnerable for a turn (they don't waste a turn by doing so) which means they can rush an entire army's shooters @ turn1 while not getting immediately pummeled by everything the opponent brought with him. A niche little bonus but it can be impactful in the 1st turn.
Not the greatest of units.
The mechs (Dreadnoughts/Juggernauts) are unfortunately slow (7 spd upg - same as Chaos Hydras). They are extremely durable and above average offensively.Their only special is their "stroke attack", an attack that targets several hexes in front of them (can do friendly fire). They cannot move and use that ability though, unlike hydra's multi-head attack, making it harder to use.
Those units probably work best when protecting the shooters. The enemy will either not come (and get pummeled by the shooters) or some and get burned to crisp by the stroke attack (which also is a no-retal attack). If you combine that with engineers, you get impressive bulk.
It's obviously not the best unit in the game, but I can see it having some potential.
While the Factory's lineup (excluding tier 3) is rather solid, it does lack the "wow" factor and feels more of a defensive setup.
It's also the most expensive lineup in the game, however, including the two tier 7 and dropping tier 3 only puts it ~1500 gold per week above Tower.
It's not the weekly population's cost that's a problem, though. The problem lies in the dwellings. Building up this town to maximum potential requires over 70 pieces of crystal which is outrageous (compared to tower's 56 gems for instance) and ridiculous 95 ore (compared to castle's 52 ore). The tier 7 dwellings both require crystal and they both require a lot of it (30 and 40 crystal respecitvely) meaning it's unlikely for the player to freely use both tier 7s from scratch.
Another problem is that the unupgraded tier 7s are poor: Couatls are the worst tier 7 in the game, being both extremely unimpressive offensively and fairly fragile; mechs are roughly as good as green/red dragons but they are very slow (at least they get their heat stroke special while unupgraded).
We'll see how good this town is soon, I guess.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 01, 2024 12:15 PM |
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Nice analysis Doomforge.
I haven't actually played 1.7.0 yet, just downloaded it now, but yeah I knew there were going to be some challenges/problems with Factory having 8 units. I guess armadillos you just don't buy, only buy their dwellings, if needed for higher tier dwellings and armadillos as a finally backup plan.
Factory requirering a lot of gold and resources can also be troublesome.
I fail to see why HotA Crew insisted on having 2 level 7 units, maybe the armadillos could have been a bit better and the couatls have been a new neutral level 7 instead, oh well...
Of course I'm looking forward to try the new faction anyway.
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PTimeButcher
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 01, 2024 02:56 PM |
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Not sure about armadillos being so bad, for me they look like a bit worse version of stone golem, use them to protect ranged unit, they should also be fine when doing dragon fly hive, they are tanky so mage heroes get more turns to cast spells.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 01, 2024 03:54 PM |
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Sure they are bad. You need to upgrade their dwelling and build their horde building just to bring them to +/- water elemental level, without any special abilities whatsoever.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted January 01, 2024 04:36 PM |
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Thanks for the analysis! I always like comparing the unit stats.
Haven’t had the chance to play a proper game with them yet. But I did do a quick Good to Go match. Feels a little out of place having so many units with an active ability in this game. I kinda wish the juggernaut would at least work as a passive. Maybe it’s laser could only trigger when it attacks without moving.
Was also surprised to see how cheap the level 7s are. With them having two, I guess I expected at least one of them to cost like 10+ of each precious resource or something. Seems you just need to get a lot of crystal and gold income and you’re set. Looking forward to playing them out on a large map to see how fast they can be built up.
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elaf
Adventuring Hero
viajeinterminable.com
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posted January 01, 2024 05:55 PM |
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I like a mechanic that you use in pokemon games, where if a creature is under ground, and you use earthquake, you insta kill the creature.
They can add this feature, if sandworm takes 1 round underground before strike in the second, also as a boost to the bad eartquake spell.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted January 01, 2024 07:00 PM |
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I don't really get why Armadillos should be somehow "skipped." They're not impressive by stats, but they offer a solid 2-hex defender for the Halflings, just squeeze them to the corner with armadillo stack and something else like a mechanic. The setup is very similar to the tower strategy, exept there's no need to split golems or something else. I believe the early Factory can actually defend it's shooter better than Tower can.
Really tried to mess with Olghoi-khorkois, but haven't yet found a place where 3 worms could be used to cheese something, maybe something like Black tower you could do with only minimal loses, but the dragons need to co-operate to achieve that.
The automatons are something to watch out for. These things are really annoying as normal enemies actually. They're fast, so there's no really way of keeping them away, and they will blow up when you finish them. Really nasty enemies. However, I don't understand the no retalition ability, in seems very anti-synergic for the explosion. Intrestingly, now the land mine specialist makes a bit more sense, when automatons are finally introduced.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 01, 2024 09:07 PM |
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Hourglass said:
I don't really get why Armadillos should be somehow "skipped."
By "skipped" I usually mean using whatever comes with the heroes to act like meatshield, without upgrading them or actively purchasing them.
You get a few with every hero and that's usually enough.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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bloodsucker 
Legendary Hero
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posted January 02, 2024 12:48 AM |
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Yeah! If people don't look for griffins in Castle, the only chance their dwelling even gets built is if it is a building requirement for better ones.
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fiorin
Promising
Famous Hero
☠️
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posted January 02, 2024 03:36 PM |
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@Doomforge Excellent analysis
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 03, 2024 04:43 AM |
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The only thing that matters is how busted these halflings are, which puts Master Gremlins (already best for creeping after the Faerie nerf) to dust. They are ranged even when not upgraded (unlike the required upgrades of Faeries and Gremlins) so accumulating lots of them for lossless battles is fast and easy.
HotA did a lot of upgrades on Tower already as it regards their prices and initial armies for example plus spell research favoring them due to library etc. so an even more upgraded desert-themed tower is what we got. Even in the lore apparently this is tower shootout and they get max mage guild. Getting two lvl7 at once is just the icing...
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Never changing = never improving
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 03, 2024 09:01 PM |
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Agreed. Halfings are extremely strong. Since you can easily boost their numbers (even if by recruiting a hero each week), they can become a serious force. With a powerhouse like Dumy, it's easy to snowball out of control.
Mercenaries (Factory might heroes) are likely to get Archery and Tactics, making those halfings especially strong.
Bounty hunters can allow lossless kills vs. neutral shooters like Grand Elves, which is awesome. Something that is hard to replicate for many towns, esp. without tactics and expendable, fast blockers like Gargoyles.
Proper usage of Engineer-Automaton isn't easy (and takes upgraded dwellings) but effective if used right as it allows a powerful resurrection once per combat. I did manage to get some amazing wins with spellbook-less hero with that combo. However, it's really hard to predict AI behavior at times. Sometimes, I get them to focus automatons. Other times, they just go for my meat shields/blockers (armadillos mostly) which spoils the effects.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted January 04, 2024 04:13 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Agreed. Halfings are extremely strong.
They have 24 shots on basic!!! You need to upgrade the Gremlins to get 8, half the lower level unupgraded creatures only get 12. It's a joke.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted January 04, 2024 04:59 PM |
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Quote:
Bounty hunters can allow lossless kills vs. neutral shooters like Grand Elves, which is awesome
Anyone actually tried this?
Because it turns out AI is too smart and simply does not shoot Bounty Hunters, it either shoots other units or charges with shooters to engage in melee.
Which makes them rather mediocre.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted January 04, 2024 05:07 PM |
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That happens to me as well.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 04, 2024 06:08 PM |
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Warmonger said:
Anyone actually tried this?
Because it turns out AI is too smart and simply does not shoot Bounty Hunters, it either shoots other units or charges with shooters to engage in melee.
Which makes them rather mediocre.
1. Remove all other units except for Bounty Hunters before approaching shooters. You also want to have as weak of an army as possible so that the stacks of enemy shooters get divided to 7.
2. Auto combat doesn't factor in the shooters behavior.
3. If you don't want to use auto combat for any reason, there's still the good old mass slow spell.
I use auto combat, so most of the fights of shooters vs. single bounty hunter stack are losless wins.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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CsArOs
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 09, 2024 03:04 PM |
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Hopefully I can add a few cents to the conversation.
First of all, as I've already fixed on the wiki, Olgoi-Khorkoi can devour corpses on the turn they attack. Even multiple corpses. The hex they attack from (the one from which the little sword icon points) has to have a corpse and they will consume before the attack (and may even use this 2nd attack that very turn). If you consider sending your own units to die as well as eating enemies, you can get a ton of attacks and only the first one is countered. And if you use the counterstrike on a 1-stack and eat it on the same turn you attack, you can vomit all those attacks on the enemy.
Against humans, it's obviously much harder to use, but you still have to look out for any and all corpses on the battlefield. And if you don't resurrect / animate dead on time... Sandworms took care of that already.
Bounty Hunters don't get targetted by AI unless they're the only stack OR they're the only stack except for meditating Couatl's OR the Bounty Hunters are Cloned.
It's worth mentioning that Cloned automatons can be used as a suicide bomber. They can be activated separately and work the same way (except they have 1 HP like all clones, making it easier for them to dish out some high explosion damage).
There's an interesting element to many Factory creatures really wanting to have Water Magic. Halflings and Gunslingers with Bless, Gunslingers, Mechanics and Automatons with Clone, Dreadnoughts with Teleportation... They all improve drastically when given a Water Magic spell. Perhaps that was the intent?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 10, 2024 09:07 PM |
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CsArOs said:
First of all, as I've already fixed on the wiki, Olgoi-Khorkoi can devour corpses on the turn they attack. Even multiple corpses. The hex they attack from (the one from which the little sword icon points) has to have a corpse and they will consume before the attack (and may even use this 2nd attack that very turn). If you consider sending your own units to die as well as eating enemies, you can get a ton of attacks and only the first one is countered. And if you use the counterstrike on a 1-stack and eat it on the same turn you attack, you can vomit all those attacks on the enemy.
Yes, that is true and I should edit my post. It has been 1st day hands-on kind of reaction and the fact that there's a separate icon for corpse devour had me fooled. I noticed on second day that you can eat corpses and attack.
Which makes the unit even better. I'd say it's even better than Minotaur Kings, because the special makes them cooler with situational double/triple damage, blind immunity, good speed and semi-teleport. A serious contender for top T5 unit.
CsArOs said:
Bounty Hunters don't get targetted by AI unless they're the only stack OR they're the only stack except for meditating Couatl's OR the Bounty Hunters are Cloned.
This is why (if your setting permits extra heroes) you hand your other units to your secondary hero and use auto combat. While it feels a bit dirty, the AI's behavior (to rush Bounty Hunters and melee them) doesn't seem to be factored in autocombat, so you can actually get better results than by playing through the battle yourself.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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gsandro1
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 10, 2024 10:06 PM |
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thanks for sharing this type of analysis
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 15, 2024 07:17 PM |
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So does people generally agree that Armadillos are the ones to be left alone?
I wonder which unit will be left alone, if maining Celestine though?
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