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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: An idea I had
Thread: An idea I had This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
kjarn
kjarn

Tavern Dweller
posted May 13, 2002 09:31 PM

An idea I had

I like mapping for heroes, and planto utilize the new hero system in my future maps. Here is what I was planning to do. I was planning on making a campaign with maybe 3-5 XL maps, multileveled, using only heroes (no creatures AT ALL.) A few problems I have encountered in designing them are:

The Summoning skill is WAY to good, I'll have to outlaw it.

It is difficult to determine an adequate challenge for a player.

Potions of Immortality are easily abused, I plan on putting a limit of 1-2 per map.


Besides that, I feel like I may have a good idea. In some of the maps, I still plan on giving a castle, but one that yields no troops, so you can at least get a Mage Guild.

So I was just wondering what people might think of something like that. Would you be interested in playing a campaign like that? Do you have any comments/suggestions?

Thanks
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Jester
Jester

Tavern Dweller
posted May 13, 2002 09:49 PM

Only heroes

It sounds fun... Are you thinking of making it with the basis of something already made, lika Lord of the rings or Wheel of time, well you understand what I looking for... Anyway it sounds fun....
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kjarn
kjarn

Tavern Dweller
posted May 13, 2002 09:51 PM

I was considering it

I was actually considering doing Forgotten Realms (TM) but I may just do it in the normal Heroes setting.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted May 13, 2002 10:39 PM

Quote:
The Summoning skill is WAY to good, I'll have to outlaw it.


Summoning too good? How about Necromancy being WAY Too good.

Charm and Diplomacy are also likely to net a lot of creatures once Heroes begin to climb in levels.

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Conn
Conn


Responsible
Famous Hero
God slayer
posted May 13, 2002 10:51 PM

Quote:
Potions of Immortality are easily abused, I plan on putting a limit of 1-2 per map.




I may be totaly wrong here, but aren't Immortality Potions being sold in some towns' blacksmith? How are you going to limit that? Prevent blacksmith being built?
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Whatever does not kill us, only makes us stronger

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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 13, 2002 10:54 PM

Quote:
I like mapping for heroes, and planto utilize the new hero system in my future maps. Here is what I was planning to do. I was planning on making a campaign with maybe 3-5 XL maps, multileveled, using only heroes (no creatures AT ALL.)

Without any creatures, you are throwing away much of HOMM's gameplay out the window.  Lots of things in HOMM are relevant to creatures.  There are many artifacts and spells that apply to creatures only.  Building town dwellings to generate creatures is the heart and soul of the game.  If you have no need to build dwellings, you may as well have no need for gold mines and resources.  There are 67 creature types, but only 11 starting hero classes.  In short, creatures provide depth and complexity to this game much more so than heroes.

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kjarn
kjarn

Tavern Dweller
posted May 13, 2002 11:11 PM



Without any creatures, you are throwing away much of HOMM's gameplay out the window.  Lots of things in HOMM are relevant to creatures.  There are many artifacts and spells that apply to creatures only.  Building town dwellings to generate creatures is the heart and soul of the game.  If you have no need to build dwellings, you may as well have no need for gold mines and resources.  There are 67 creature types, but only 11 starting hero classes.  In short, creatures provide depth and complexity to this game much more so than heroes.



The ENTIRE point of this is to try to make an RPG form of Heroes. I am going to eliminate certain artifacts that would be problematic. I am not throwing ANYTHING out the window, it's called trying something new. I'm not making it a strategy map, can you not see that???? Creatures are good yes, I am not saying otherwise, but apparently you don't understand that. I'm not just making a map and saying no creatures, I am going to actually put some thought into it. Would you not buy a game because it didn't have armies in it???? I think you missed the entire point of what I was saying.
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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 13, 2002 11:50 PM
Edited By: kevyip on 13 May 2002

Are you capable of comprehending simple logic?  If you want to turn a strategy game into an RPG game, you HAVE to throw away a big chuck of stuff designed for the strategy aspects of the game.  There are RPG elements in HOMM, but they alone are not enough to sustain quality gameplay.  So the odds are against you to come up with something enjoyable or even playable or design-able.  


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Juregen
Juregen

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2002 12:49 AM

Give the guy a break

If he wants to design a map like that let it be, and if you don't want to play, just don't.

But don't break others people spirit because you don't see the point in all of it


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krutselno
krutselno


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2002 01:41 AM

Sounds like a great idea Kjarn ! I would really like to try to play a map/campaign like that.
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r2
r2


Hired Hero
posted May 14, 2002 02:58 AM


Keep up the good work Kjarn! This sounds like an excellent idea!!
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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2002 03:10 AM

Quote:
Give the guy a break

If he wants to design a map like that let it be, and if you don't want to play, just don't.

But don't break others people spirit because you don't see the point in all of it

What transpired here is this: I offered him advice and opinion, but they were opposed to his, and he felt rattled so he turned defensive.  Anyone who is easily made uncomfortable by opinions contrary to his would never succeed in pretty much anything, in gaming or in life...

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Kjarn
Kjarn

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2002 03:27 AM

Not at all

What you did was just trash my idea. I simply tried to explain why your arguments didn't apply. And please don't make me think your even stupider then I already do, to say someone isn't fit for life because they get pissed off about someones unfair criticism is just moronic. I just can't justify even saying any more to you.

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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2002 05:48 AM

Quote:
What you did was just trash my idea. I simply tried to explain why your arguments didn't apply. And please don't make me think your even stupider then I already do, to say someone isn't fit for life because they get pissed off about someones unfair criticism is just moronic. I just can't justify even saying any more to you.

Read my first post again.  I made legitimate criticisms about your flawed concepts, which due to your stubbornness and arrogance you were unable to accept.  From the utter inability to accept criticism alone, I know more about you as a person than you probably do yourself!

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Henl86
Henl86


Known Hero
oLd SkOoL RA2 OwNaH
posted May 14, 2002 02:42 PM

Since I'm a big rpg fan....

I would love to see that! Keep up the good work.

A LOTR map would be GREAT too! But that'd be too much work probably, with all the story and making the map look like the real one. But again, it would be GREAT.
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Largo_LeGrande
Largo_LeGrande


Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
posted May 14, 2002 03:05 PM

I'd like to make a LOTR map but I'm just so poor at making it look like it should But I'm pretty good with scripting so if someone who can do a XL underground map whit the middle earth continent on the surface (I would do the underworld part) I would do some teamwork whit him/her.

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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted May 14, 2002 04:31 PM

This isn't fair!

I was planning, believe it or not, to make a map where the focus is all on Heroes. This isn't fair! Now I'm going to have to rush to finish this, yessssss, firsssst out, yesssssssss.



Actually, people who like this idea are all kindred spirits; that much is clear. Summoning and Diplomacy are the skills I was worried about, and Necromancy, too, presents a problem. Once I finish the map, and get it playtested, I can see if I need to outlaw skills.

I can't wait to see what some of these maps will be like!

(Don't ask me why; I'm just feeling very happy this morning)



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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>

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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2002 04:57 PM

Quote:
Summoning and Diplomacy are the skills I was worried about, and Necromancy, too, presents a problem. Once I finish the map, and get it playtested, I can see if I need to outlaw skills.

That's right.  Throw away Summoning.  Throw away Necromancy, and skills.  And you also won't need external dwellings, half of the artifacts, all 67 creature types.  You are going to have a hard time to even fill up the map!!

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soulhunt79
soulhunt79

Tavern Dweller
posted May 14, 2002 05:01 PM

Quote:

Without any creatures, you are throwing away much of HOMM's gameplay out the window.  Lots of things in HOMM are relevant to creatures.  There are many artifacts and spells that apply to creatures only.  Building town dwellings to generate creatures is the heart and soul of the game.  If you have no need to build dwellings, you may as well have no need for gold mines and resources.  There are 67 creature types, but only 11 starting hero classes.  In short, creatures provide depth and complexity to this game much more so than heroes.



I'll agree with some of your points like some things are relevant to only creatures.  Artifacts I don't know of any but there probably are.  Spells are a definate.  Also no need for resources.

However I don't think building dwellings is the "heart and soul of the game"  I have edited a few maps myself just to get everyone having their entire castle built and then start the game.  Saves a lot of time for me if I want to create and finish a game shortly.  It is still pretty fair since everyone is starting off on roughly the same level.

Also I have to disagree with the creature depth.   I do believe they do a lot more than in HOMM3 and 2 but I personally think the heroes are much more diverse than any monster or even group of monster.   The amount of different spells alone would be enough and then decent combat is added on that.  It may be a bug in the game or an imbalance but you can take a hero throughout game any beat most anything.  I don't think you can do that with a few monsters of the same strength.


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kevyip
kevyip


Adventuring Hero
posted May 14, 2002 05:32 PM
Edited By: kevyip on 14 May 2002

Quote:
However I don't think building dwellings is the "heart and soul of the game"  I have edited a few maps myself just to get everyone having their entire castle built and then start the game.  

But maps like that are the exception.  In most maps you have to build from scratch.  That's part of the fun of HOMM.  I question whether taking that enjoyment away would be too drastic.  I wouldn't design it like that except perhaps for the purpose of storytelling or special quests.
Quote:
Also I have to disagree with the creature depth.   I do believe they do a lot more than in HOMM3 and 2 but I personally think the heroes are much more diverse than any monster or even group of monster.   The amount of different spells alone would be enough and then decent combat is added on that.  It may be a bug in the game or an imbalance but you can take a hero throughout game any beat most anything.  I don't think you can do that with a few monsters of the same strength.

In HOMM4, it takes a LONG time to for a hero to become strong enough to fight against anything in combats.  By the time your hero reaches level 20-30 and finally becomes strong enough to fight ONE level 4 creature, you will have gotten lots of level 4 creatures from your towns already.  It takes forever to develop such a hero, but only one week to get 2 Level 4 creatures.


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