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| Thread: Is Learning a must-have skill in HotA 1.7.2? | |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 03:59 PM |
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Poll Question:
Is Learning a must-have skill in HotA 1.7.2?
Hi guys
Learning got quite a significant buff, in HotA, with last update.
Do you consider Learning a must-have skill now?
I tried to tone down the XP bonus from Learning, but it seems Advanced Learning uses the same address as Expert Intelligence, so changing this will affect both. Now I have to choose between a very strong Learning or a very weak Intelligence skill. I guess I'll keep both at 50% for now...  (Basic Intelligence also seems to share an address with Expert Logistics... )
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 04:23 PM |
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I don't see skills as "must" or "mustn't".
Of course there are qualities to them. But with this update, I lost that way of seeing at them.
To me, there are more than 8 good skills, a lot more. But it mostly depends on the Hero or Map, regarding what strategy you are aiming to.
New learning? I love it, it is impactful now.
This game has something special, it is complete chaos inside an orb of order, anyone can turn the board around at any moment, because there are a lot of ways of becomming powerwul, or even godlike-powerful.. leaving way behind the other heores, that once were worthy adversaries.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 04:37 PM |
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Yeah, I kinda agree with you Juas, though I am a bit worried Learning has become a bit too powerful now, especially in certain maps, like my own...
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Juas at 17:27, 12 Jan 2025.
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phoenix4ever said:
Yeah, I kinda agree with you Juas, though I am a bit worried Learning has become a bit too powerful now, especially in certain maps, like my own...
I get you, but I have no worries. This game has a huge pool of options. Learning, First Aid and Eagle Eye, are new ways of playing the game.. and they are new ways, because now they impact the world. But remember that everything is a give & take. If you have chosen Learning, you didn't choose another good option.
The ballance is always on action in this game, everything ends out adapting and blending with the world, like a fine melody composed by Paul Romero.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 05:50 PM |
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I hope you are right. 
Pathfinding, Sorcery and Mysticism also seems very good now. (Except for Wizard's Well, which ruins Mysticism and is extremely easy to assemble. It only gives +10% mana in my game.)
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 06:39 PM |
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Edited by Juas at 18:47, 12 Jan 2025.
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Phoenix4ever said:
Pathfinding, Sorcery and Mysticism also seems very good now.
I haven't tested those yet..
but I did have a great playtrhough at the map "When Seas Were Deeper", I had the chance to appreciate a lot of things, I am pleased at how the game, as a whole, feels now.
To me, HoMM 3 is a 10 (GOAT, has the maxium score), and HotA ellevated it to an 11.. it is already "perfect" now, but never perfect enough it seems. So I wouldn't get too surprised if it gets to a 12 in a few more years.
--------------------
I am curious about your map, bro
It's been years, and if I don't mistake you always keep working on the same map?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 06:50 PM |
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With HD Mod, HotA and my own mods and maps, I would defintely put H3 as my favorite game of all time as well. I can agree with 11/10. 
I have spent thoudsands of hours with this game and I'm not planning on stopping any time soon.
Though I have some good, old and nostalgic memories with especially N64 and PS2 games.
Yep always working on the same map, I will probably never get tired of that either. 
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 06:57 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
With HD Mod, HotA and my own mods and maps, I would defintely put H3 as my favorite game of all time as well. I can agree with 11/10.
Between you and me, I also put that score based on my modifications. Because that's the liberty you have, to be a God of a bast and enchanting fantasy world.
Don't get me too serious of course. I smoke marihuana when I spend time on the game.
phoenix4ever said:
(...)
Though I have some good, old and nostalgic memories with especially N64 and PS2 games.
Well, my other love, I mean rank 2, is Diablo 2.
(a 10, based on my modifications)
phoenix4ever said:
Yep always working on the same map, I will probably never get tired of that either.
Well, have you got any thread with images?
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 08:31 PM |
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Yeah, it feels good to be a god, at least in H3 "creator mode". 
No, my map is not public, since it is meant to be played with my rules and I constantly change the rules and the map, so I would have to re-upload it every second day. 
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 08:41 PM |
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Well.. I meant I want to see how it looks
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 12, 2025 09:19 PM |
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Sorry I don't have any screenshots.
It's probably not gonna win any beauty contest, let's be honest, but I have tried to make it fun and balanced for all 6 players. It's an XL +underground island map. So in the beginning you will need to sail from island to island, but later Town Portal, Water Walk, Fly and Dimension Door comes in to play and then you can almost ignore the sailing completely, at least for your main hero.
The map can also be played 2 VS 2 VS 2.
I think I have seen screenshots of one of your maps, it looked quite beautiful.
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Juas
Adventuring Hero
Dragón Rojo
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posted January 12, 2025 09:44 PM |
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It is allright.. well, if you feel like it, I would play your map.
Thanks for that
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 13, 2025 02:55 AM |
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Ok I already said that Learning belonged to might heroes.. And no always pick up! No matter, it also fits specialty maps.. So the most suck skill is Ballistics, it after EE.. Because EE for scout magic heroes.. So they (HotA crew) tried noob players think now's time to play MP.. You need bud, when you don't need to get a disappointment, when they beat you.. So you can explain that you still drink beers.. Ok bros, even if I don't think you realized yet.. Mysticism is a legendary snowy.. Thus it belonged to DD, Fly and TP.. Your scout too.. You need many heroes.. You get OP.. When you build a field where are attackers, defenders, damagers, spies, guarders, terrors, collectors, etc No one "main hero".. Its king as a chess, but irregular, thus town is also king.. Don't get a checkmate with one hero.. If you try as some us, have a fun!
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 13, 2025 06:54 AM |
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I think what you were trying to say Ghost, was that you need many heroes, with different skills, for different roles.
And I am doing exactly that, so yeah...
I was talking about if Learning was a must-have skill for your main hero though.
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted January 13, 2025 09:21 AM |
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I think learning is fine as is, yes it creates an early momentum but when you've learned all the skills it kinda is a wasted slot. so on huge maps where it's easy to get to level 30 it loses a lot of value i think
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 13, 2025 02:24 PM |
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Makes sense, though I am running with 10 skills, so my perspective is probably a little different.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 13, 2025 03:06 PM |
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10 skills in WoG/ERA, so I can say that worst skill, they (WoGers) don't pick up..
I taught that Learning for specialty maps in Elite map, but I taught that Learning is sucking, helpless improvement is always sucking in Elite III..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Brevan
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 14, 2025 03:52 PM |
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Edited by Brevan at 15:59, 14 Jan 2025.
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My experience (1-2 games with each skill on my main hero) with the new changes
Learning (Kinkeria) - This was neat in the early game, but the hero levels fast enough that you're forced into selecting 1-2 undesired skills by random (after you're Expert in skills you chose, you are forced into learning a random skill), since you won't have the opportunity to find Universities or Elemental Confluxes to learn skills of your choice. In the end game, Kinkeria was about level 25 (so about 170% bonus XP), which was only 5 levels more than my hero that didn't have Learning at all. This made me feel like Learning was at best sacrificing a skill slot for a free +1 all stats artifact. This experience might have been messed up by Kinkeria -- as a Fortress Magic hero, her chance at some skills might just be really low (I declined Eagle Eye about 5 times (eventually forced into it, so end-game she had Eagle Eye, Ballistics, and Learning; none are my favourites, but they were fine really), but some skills were very rarely offered).
Pathfinding - Yeah this is a great skill now (at Expert this is about +20% movement (since costs reduced 15%) or no terrain penalty). I read someone suggesting that Logistics be buffed (since it's +20% movement at best, which I think means +400 movement points if you're using fast units, but I haven't confirmed this). I'd support changing Logistics to a flat movement bonus (this would encourage the use of slow creatures with less movement penalty, maybe +150 +300 +500 movement points. That said, in the end-game I didn't notice Pathfinding being useful since I'd already finished my off-road exploration, and usually just teleported around the map.
Sorcery - Yeah great skill now for Magic heroes. I'm pretty sure it magnifies the bonus from spell-specialties (I was playing with Solmyr, didn't bother breaking down the calculation of his damage), so +30% from each on a 100 damage spell would do 163 damage instead of 160. Sorcery as a specialty seemed really nice too, since it was like a spell specialty for every damage spell, but even stronger with the high-level spells (like Armageddon) being used against high-level targets.
Mysticism - Yeah great skill now. I don't notice the % effects in the early game, but once your knowledge is above 10 the 30% means mostly free spells if you're thrifty with spell usage. I think it's better than Intelligence in the early game, and balanced with it end-game (since in my end-game I'm often ending turns in a town, so my mana is usually completely refilled anyways).
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted January 14, 2025 06:16 PM |
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Brevan said:
.. I'd support changing Logistics to a flat movement bonus (this would encourage the use of slow creatures with less movement penalty
I've done this but I haven't played it yet.
Also movement artifacts are % instead (the two are reversed)
Maybe in 40 yrs I'll be free to do this
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