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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted August 14, 2025 04:58 AM |
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Unit Upgrades /tempo
The average att/def increase is combined ~2.5 and ~1.3 speed at a cost of ~22% for level 1s.
Would the game be better served in terms of game tempo by increasing this difference, to say, 50% or even 100%.
The way it currently stands, the building is cheap, the cost is low and the improvement marginal, so you spend very little time using the unupgraded units.
Maybe it would be more fun if 'upgrade' units were much, much better (and thus cost much more), with lower marginal utility so you would get level 1+2 base before you upgraded the level 1s.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 14, 2025 05:12 PM |
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Do you mean level one's especially or upgrading in general?
Especially talking about the early game units and the tempo meta, their upgrades are usually already the play for most towns - Rampart, Tower, Stronghold (Cove in Hota) basically always want to upgrade their lvl 1's on turn one, and I would say it's the common play for Fortress and Dungeon. Inferno is in though spot in SoD, they're super weak regardless what they do, but in SoD I would definietly build Familiars right away. Conflux loves going for Sprites in SoD, that's why they're nerfed in Hota. And Factory would most screamingly do their level one upgrade right away if they just could. Only in Castle the lvl 1 upgrade doesn't make sense on turn one.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted August 14, 2025 05:46 PM |
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Edited by phe at 17:48, 14 Aug 2025.
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H2 had double price difference cost...it should be one of the scripts, especially for high level units... could be different for any upgrade... it should also cost in experience by be possible only to upgrade if you had at least 4th experience level (erasing previous 4th level experience)  ...
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted August 14, 2025 05:49 PM |
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I guess lvl.1's mainly because the difference is so little, but applies to all.. except Vampire Lords etc. and lvl.7's where they gain a lot of HP and/or abilities.
Like sprites gaining no retal is way powerful enough, that would be like a ~100% difference (tactically)
Just, some units, it makes very little difference and seems even like a hassle to differentuate the two, it would fill out the game to make every unit have a substanstial difference, which, if they only gain att/def would have to be a lot more I suppose.
The purpose being to improve gameplay, so no choices are obvious.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted August 14, 2025 05:53 PM |
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phe said:
H2 had double price difference cost...it should be one of the scripts, especially for high level units... could be different for any upgrade... it should also cost in experience by be possible only to upgrade if you had at least 4th experience level (erasing previous 4th level experience) ...
actually I never understood the point of unit experience is this how it is used in era??
If not that would be a good idea
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BTB
Famous Hero
Moist & Creamy
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posted August 15, 2025 02:49 AM |
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I had a similar thought with the development of AH3M, which is part of why I ended up standardizing upgrades to provide only more health and a new or improved ability while the other stats remain the same. The upgrades really just become a choice of how much you want that ability versus the cost while the health bonus is just sort of a small bonus with purchase.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 15, 2025 07:54 AM |
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If you guys change stats of the downgraded units, how do you calculate cost and AI Value and Fight Value? Is there some kinda formula for this or is it just using your "gut feeling"?
Since the bonus of creature specialists of level 1-6 units are directly affected by the creatures attack and defense, perhaps they should share these values with the upgraded creatures.
Then upgrading would be more for speed, HP, damage and new abilities.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 15, 2025 02:17 PM |
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@unit experience
To make ERM script easily, you need to look at ERM help..
@AI value and fight also other values
If you give 700 to level 7 in fight value, and 100 to level 1, when easier in mind, but AI becomes stronger that is attacked against level 7 of monsters in 1 week.. Those values have to similar chess and monopoly.. I don't like an idea.. Thus I used H4 values sometimes, it looks like ok.. But today values are "realism mind", thus HoMM for kids, not PROs.. If you want to see smartest AI, try it values..
Ok 
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted August 15, 2025 05:38 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
If you guys change stats of the downgraded units, how do you calculate cost and AI Value and Fight Value? Is there some kinda formula for this or is it just using your "gut feeling"?
Since the bonus of creature specialists of level 1-6 units are directly affected by the creatures attack and defense, perhaps they should share these values with the upgraded creatures.
Then upgrading would be more for speed, HP, damage and new abilities.
Perhaps the original creators used a formula, or not.
The important thing is the relative value so the AI can fight properly by itself. But this requires 'feel' because the optimal result is different for 1 unit vs 10 units (hp to kill one unit)
But the AI is gross so no need to be so perfect anyway
If you're using scaling unit specialities that would keep it consistent.
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BTB
Famous Hero
Moist & Creamy
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posted August 16, 2025 02:21 AM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
If you guys change stats of the downgraded units, how do you calculate cost and AI Value and Fight Value? Is there some kinda formula for this or is it just using your "gut feeling"?
Since the bonus of creature specialists of level 1-6 units are directly affected by the creatures attack and defense, perhaps they should share these values with the upgraded creatures.
Then upgrading would be more for speed, HP, damage and new abilities.
This is the formula I settled on:
(HP * (SPD + (!) + Lv.)) + ((ATK + Lv.) * (DEF + Lv.))
(! = lower of shots;speed, ranged units only)
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted August 19, 2025 02:24 PM |
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+1 speed is worth upgrade. speed is imba in H3
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