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| Thread: The most useless spells |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted September 02, 2002 10:12 AM |
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I think "Summon Barbarian" is an "Tavern" magic spell !!
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kujo
Known Hero
who loves to script.
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posted September 02, 2002 02:37 PM |
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you guys dunno what summon barbarian is? you can find it at the Barb Spells lvl 3 place on the map. Since theres only one might spell you always get it.
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guten tag
du bist schwul.
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted September 02, 2002 03:12 PM |
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undead_wolf_...
Adventuring Hero
Undead Wolf Wrangler
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posted September 03, 2002 08:13 AM |
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back to question...
Sparks is pretty useless
Fire Aura is lame
Sorrow is pretty weak, Mass Sorrow is OK, though.
Defender sucks
Mirth is pretty weak, Fervor is good though
Summon Leprechaun sucks.
Actually, all lower level summoning spells are pretty worthless once you get the higher summoning spells...Who would summon wolves when you can summon elementals? It kind of cheats the Nature magic if you ask me.
Same thing applies to the "Raise X" for Death Magic.
But with the other schools of magic, they have very few spells that render others obsolete.
Nature Magic and Death magic get kind of screwed IMO.
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"where's a damn werewolf when you need one?"
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted September 09, 2002 05:22 PM |
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2002 03:46 PM |
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GREAT !!!! Finaly someone dislikes "Summon Leprechaun" and Leprechauns. 
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted September 11, 2002 02:28 PM |
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I think these low level summon spells are perfectly fine.. I am mean summoning say what 7 sprites or so per battle can be just as damaging in the long run as casting a 36 dmg Magic arrow or equivalent.. Also what would you have a lv1 summon Elemental spell or something?
The low level summons are a great way to take the "Heat" off your real troops to avoid loses early along in the game. Agreed summon leprechaun is completely useless in the early stages.. but I have seen that Mirth boost come in handy a number times when dealing with large stacks, say week 4-5 range. ANd depending on difficulty. ( I Play champion and here they do not) I bet that on some easy settings the large stacks week 4 or 5 would still attack your fodder with this crapp AI.
Another thing is that in a multi-player game I think the spell Sparks will be EXTREMELY useful.. I'd be willing to bet that early combats between heroes some players will choose to surrond a hero with stacks of 1 or 2 low level creatures destroying his line of sight to cast more devastating spells.. and using 3 attacks.. or a stronger stack of creatures to deal with this measly nuissance seems a waste of time.
Summon Boat is actually quite helpful.. I've found on maps with water I have attacked some snows.. well lets say prematurely... lol
Before I really knew what to expect, if a map has no shipyard but loose boats you can retreat a hero from a water battle, and the boat remains under your control.. kinda like a heroes tomb stone on the adventure map. Which allows you to summon the boat back. This could be a game winner in certain circumstance..
NOw granted most of these spells discussed are Very situational. But I find that even the more powerful spells also are...
I had a question as well.. With the lv5 Life spell "Guardian Angel" I have a hero with ability to cast it so she should gain 7 lives from it... ( I havn't played alot of life yet, they are my 4th town strategic attempt) Now for my question.. Does this spell give me say 700 extra hitpoints? if my hero was with 100 hp? or does it allow me to die 7 times and be brought back..
I mean for example I cast Guardian ANgel.. a stack of 200 efreets hit my hero.. she falls... can she withstand this attack 6 more times? or does the dmg carry over into future lives?
Hope you understand what I mean here.
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THe Dead Walk!!!
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted September 11, 2002 02:44 PM |
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The "Guardian Angel" spell on heroes works, like potion of immortality. If you'll cast it on hero, and if he dies in combat, he will be ressurected, but if someone kills your hero again he will be dead. And "Guardian Angel" spell duration is one combat. (Not like potion of immortality).
For creatures is another thing. Let say the spell says: "Guardian Angel" grats 7 lives. If you cast it on, for example Angels, it will granted 7 lives. That means if someone kills Angel with this spell, the quantity of Angels will not change. And if again, 6 lives remains and so on...
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Tristan
Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
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posted September 11, 2002 04:14 PM |
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I have not ever had occasion to use guardian angel but from the description I think it works a little differently. If you have the ability to grant 7 lifes, and you cast it on say 5 champions, then each champ gets one protection. I am not really saying this well, maybe why the description is confusing is because it is hard to say. The reason you only get one life for a hero is because there is only one hero to be protected, if you had only 1 angel in a stack, it would only be guarded once.
On summoning spells:
I agree that low level summoning spells (and raise spells for necro) are useless in the later game, but I think much of the reason for this is the way in which the numbers increase. You go up a level and can summon 5 more sprites than last level, but 1 more elemental? Maybe if the numbers increased faster at higher levels-skills, we would find more use for these spells. I can think of times I might prefer to summon 500 sprites than 20 earth elementals.
On useless spells in general:
I am encouraged to see the reletively low number of spells deemed useless, it seems that a better job was done on spells this time around.
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If you learn so much by losing, why am I so dumb?
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Grythandril
Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
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posted September 11, 2002 04:20 PM |
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Fatigue is a weak spell because i dont think there is a mass Fatigue but you can get mass Slow which is better as well as Slow
Sparks is not bad at all but only at close range.
Fire Aura is superb
Sorrow is pretty weak,
Mass Sorrow and Sorrow is essential.
Defender sucks
Mirth and Fervor is also essential
Summon Leprechaun has some advantages however small
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted September 11, 2002 05:43 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 11 Sep 2002
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For a Lone Hero taking on a monster stack (containing only one monster type) Sorrow can be very strong.
You need to have the effects of:
Sorrow.
No retaliation. (Amulet of Fear or Advanced class bonus.))
First strike/Snake Strike or Master Melee
Then you can defeat most types of monsters with a single hero, with no risk of losing.
Mirth is Ok. One or two of your stacks generally seem to do all the damage so boosting their initiative and damage is quite good.
Well, if you want some buff-troops to take an attack/retaliation this spell and troop rocks. Summon Leprechaun, Leprechaun casts Fortune on your Hero. It can often be a life-saver.
Lower level summoning spells does conserve your spell-points. If the map-making has made the oppurtunities to replenish mana few and far in between then you will often not be able to afford to cast the higher level spells each time. Both Summon Leprechaun and Summon Satyr has a very good usefulness long into the game.
Other schools have mass versions of spells that are also on lower levels. Just look at Life Magic and Wards. The Mass spell often renders the other spell obsolete (except in the case where you need to conserve spell points.)
All the magic skills work the same way. Higher level spells are more powerful than lower level spells, but they also cost more. Therefore, you usually consider casting the higher level spells before casting lower level spells, and this applies to every magic school.
I don't think Nature and Death is at an disadvantage. For one thing both Nature and Death can cast their spells multiple times building up bigger and bigger stacks.
Added:
In shorter games, you may not have time to build up your Heroes to get GM of your skills. An archer who primarily has combat will probably not get more than expert in their magic skills. Most of your heroes will be stranded on mid-levels for most of their magic schools. Sure, they can build up one magic skill but there's not time to build up two.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Wub
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2002 06:03 PM |
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Edited By: Wub on 11 Sep 2002
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Nature summoning spells become useless after a while?
I keep hearing that many summoning spells get useless when you can summon higher level creatures. I don't agree. Even later in the game I keep casting level 1 summoning spells. In this post I want to show the usefulness of every summoning spell and how summoning can be used.
I can think of 3 ways to use summoning spells:
-summon creatures to reinforce your army. This is quite obvious. However, it often only makes sense to do this when the stack of summoned creatures is fairly big when compared with the forces that are already on the battlefield. For example: summon mantis may be great in small battles, but when you are facing a huge army, those 2 mantises won't make much of a difference.
-summon creatures for their special ability. For example: summon some satyrs to cast mirth on your army members. Since the amount of creatures summoned does not matter for this, it is already very powerful when you don't have a high level spellcaster.
-summon creatures to be a sacrificial stack. A sacrificial stack can serve the following purposes:
-Block a shooter
-Eat up retaliation.
-Block the line of sight of a spellcaster or shooter.
-'Unblock' a shooter by attacking the blocking creature from behind.
-Let an enemy unit move to the opposite direction of your archers by deploying a sacrificials stack behind it. Only the AI is stupid enough to fall for this.
These are the ways in which summoning can be used in my opinion, now what spell should you use for what purpose?
Summon leprechaun: These green-gloved fruitcakes may not be very good to reinforce your army, but you should use them to cast fortune. I consider summon leprechaun (one of) the best 1st level nature spells because it equals the effect of a level 2 spell. Casting fortune is very good; the luck effect is always applied and it decreases the percentage of damage your enemy does by 1/3. This equals an increase of defense of 50%, the double of stoneskin! And besides that, once you have cast fortune, you can use the leprechauns as a sacrificial stack too.
Summon wolf: Early in the game they may be used to beef up your army, but later in the game they are still good sacrificial stacks due to the low casting cost of the spell. Their relatively high speed perfectly allows them to eat up retaliation or quickly block an enemy's the line of sight.
Summon sprite: This spell can reinforce your early army greatly, because their relatively high speed and movement and no retaliation specialty is great for doing hit&run on slow creatures. Good to rob graveyards at day 1. Also, their high movement, combined with the cheap cost of the spell makes it worth summoning them to block shooters or something.
Summon satyr: Being no great fighters and too expensive to just sacrifice, these hip-swaying clowns are best summoned to cast mirth. Compare this with the life spell mirth: both are level 2 spells, but 'summon satyr' allows you to cast mirth a few times and gives you extra units too!
Summon elf: The only reason to cast this spell is to reinforce your army. But since this is your first 'summon shooter' spell, it is great in addition with quicksand.
Summon white tiger: mainly used to reinforce your army, so it gets superfluous later in the game. Occasionally, you need the high speed of the tigers to eat up retaliation, but this is rare.
Summon earth elemental: Only used to reinforce your army or maybe block the line of sight of a direct damage spellcaster.
Summon air elemental: I you need hitpoints fast, this is your spell.
Summon fire elemental: good to use in combination with quicksand and it makes 'summon elf' a lot less desirable. Once again, only to reinforce your army.
Summon water elemental: One of the top nature spells in my opinion. These wet blobs can cast quicksand, fatigue, weakness or ice bolt. The best thing is that only one elemental is needed to annoy your opponent with really good spells. Summon water elemental is almost always preferred over casting quicksand (if you don't know how to cast quicksand, look on page 1 of this thread). Water elementals can even slow down flyers as well. Their icebolt is also great to reinforce your army. Occasionally, I use their cold resistance to block the line of sight of genies. But to make a long story short: this spell is great; wandering creature stacks consisting of walkers are (alomst) dead and it is very often a valuable spell to cast in battle (at least against the AI).
Summon Waspwort: The spell that makes 'summon fire elemental' and 'summon elf' almost superfluous. But if you want them to cast weakness, you'd be better off summoning water elementals.
Summon Griffin: reinforce army.
Summon Unicorn: reinforce army or hope for blind.
Summon Mantis: reinforce army. When you want them for their binding ability, you could once again consider casting 'summon water elemental'.
Summon Phoenix: reinforce army. Once in a hundred years, it may come in handy to block a shooter twice while using only 1 spell (rebirth ability).
Summon Faerie dragon: again, mainly used to reinforce your army. But, casting confusion will help you greatly too.
Conclusion: summoning low level creatures may be very useful as sacrificial stacks. The higher the level of the summoning spell, the better it is used to reinforce your army. For this reason, it is often better in HUGE battles to cast summon leprechaun for their luck ability than to summon 2 phoenixes.
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Tristan
Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
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posted September 11, 2002 07:57 PM |
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Well, I was able to summon 4 pheonix or about 45 sprites. Yes the mana cost was higher, but in a large battle (even more so if fighting with hero alone) you would have to summon sprites many more times to get the same protection against the enemy you can get with just the one spell.
I know, I know, multiplayer will change things a lot, but even in a multiplayer game more of your fights will be against the AI in neutral stacks than against another player. I have found summon air elemental to be one of the best spells for keeping your enemy away while your shooters chew them up, put them in the right place and all the enemy (or at least a large portion) will attack them while you have close range with your elves and fire elementals.
Another good idea can be to use summoned wolves to take down the gate in sieges. If you can summon enough of them with their double attacks they can take down a citidel gate in one attack. Cerebus can be nice for this too if you have them since they can attack the gate AND a creature or 2 behind it sometimes.
Of course some of this is dependent on having a high level hero casting the spells, something that may not happen quite as much in single maps as in campaigns! 
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If you learn so much by losing, why am I so dumb?
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Wub
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2002 10:52 PM |
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Quote:
Well, I was able to summon 4 pheonix or about 45 sprites. Yes the mana cost was higher, but in a large battle (even more so if fighting with hero alone) you would have to summon sprites many more times to get the same protection against the enemy you can get with just the one spell.
I wouldn't dare to disagree that 4 phoenixes generally are more useful than 45 sprites. But I meant that when you just wanted to block a shooter, the strength of the blocker doesn't make too much of a difference. That's why it is usually best to use a cheap spell in my opinion. Nice idea with that cerberi by the way!
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StrongholdKe...
Adventuring Hero
IRC fan
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posted September 12, 2002 10:52 AM |
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Armagedon
I think armagedon is a bad spell because it kills your creatures. The best way to use it is to go with your own hero and cast it.
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Barbarian rading party!
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 02:29 PM |
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Especialy when one hero casts it . (You know who is that hero> Strongholdkeeper.) 
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted September 12, 2002 02:36 PM |
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well it can help to have black dragons, they being immune to the effects
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted September 15, 2002 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
Especialy when one hero casts it . (You know who is that hero> Strongholdkeeper.)
I know who that person is 
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Guardians Grove forum
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Medusa
Famous Hero
Yeah, right
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posted September 17, 2002 02:02 PM |
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Edited By: Medusa on 26 Sep 2002
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I think that armagedon is usefull only if you have only a hero in your army. he doesn't get the damage
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Guardians Grove forum
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RexHomini
Hired Hero
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posted May 21, 2003 12:12 PM |
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It is also usefull if you have units that are imune to fire.
Or artifacts that grant magic protection on all friendly.
Else, just go with blackies , efretts and fire elementals.
I think that they are enough of an army
The spell that really sucks is anti magic .. especially when it is done by the_other_guy and you are a skilled level 40 magician he he he
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Never try to fail miserably..You will fail miserably
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