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| Thread: WHAT?! No creature stat changes in the patch!? | |
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lichie_lich
Hired Hero
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posted September 10, 2002 08:12 AM |
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WHAT?! No creature stat changes in the patch!?
Okay...so far I'm quite satisfied with the changes and bug fixes in the MP patch except for one thing: there's no creature stat fix at all! The creature roster are still unbalanced for the multiplayer.
Well,think about it: we still got lots of creatures that are too weak or too useless to be compared with the other creatures on the same level, E.g. Ogre Mages to be compared with cyclops,nagas to be compared with genies. So we should enhance some of these dumb creatures' stats to make them a tad stronger or else no one will be bothered to use them at all! Some weak creatures like dwarves and wolves should also have higher stats to make thme more durable in combat.
So what do you guys think?
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted September 10, 2002 12:05 PM |
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I think..uhmm..
all towns have a good feature to them..If the level one creature sux, usually the level 2's or 3's are good.
I don't think you should compare the creatures by level.
I hope I made myself clear because I don't quite know how to exactly explain it.
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted September 10, 2002 01:41 PM |
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I dunno they are pretty unbalanced, but you can always limit the scenario if you desperately want to play with those creatures
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted September 10, 2002 02:04 PM |
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The solution is not always to make the weak alternative stronger. In the case of Genies I'd say cut down the growth to 5 and make them more expensive. (Genies should also receive an increased XP value.)
Ogre Mages what annoys me the most is their low speed on the adventure Map, also very slow on combat Map. Make them at least as fast as the Berserkers. One or two more useful spells would also be a good idea for the Ogre Magi. For instance cancellation, exorcism or dispel.
When it comes to the choice of player vs. player Ogre Magi may be a choice which is as good as Cyclopses (and better against certain line-ups), but against the AI Cyclopses is much better than the Ogres.
Isn't both dwarves and wolves among the more durable level 1s already?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted September 10, 2002 02:49 PM |
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Yes Djive, that would make sense: ogres should have only those three mass spells you told us! It would make an ogre mage good choose when fighting against magic heroes!
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 -Largo has spoken-
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2002 06:29 PM |
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Ogre Magi, unless they are strengthened, will never be a better choice against player than Cyclops. Reason for this is that Cyclops can kill enemy hero in the first round, where as Ogre Magi can't. And even with Grand Master Tactics skill no other Stronghold units will reach the back row of opponent in the first turn.
Second reason is that you can bargain with the weaknesses of Cyclops, they can be protected and they are not slower than Ogres. But you can't bargain with Ogre Magi. If you take them there are no units in Stronghold who can kill the enemy hero in the first round and, like I have said before, it will leave you tactically vulnerable.
Let's see two different possible creature scenarios:
You have Ogre Magi (some smaller stacks to cast Bloodlust), large number of Berserkers, Harpies and few Thunderbirds. There aren't high level heroes or heroes who have Grand Mastery in anything. If there would, it will be a tough battle, for you. Your opponent has some shooters or spell casters or any other that gives you a reason not to sit idle on your side of battlefield, which is likely. So you are wondering what tactical closement you should make. You decide to wait with all of your units and opposite Druid or Mage casts Teleport/(Mass) Slow/Slow/Wasp. Even those low level spells can win opponent a battle provided that he has come in reasonable force. Opponent has no reason to make an aggressive anvancement, so he can move his units defensively and make raids with faster units.
The situation is same and sides are same but you just have Cyclops (divided into two stacks). Note that there are very few creatures (if any) that can match the shooting power of Cyclops. Your opponent has no creatures that can hurt the Cyclops as you have tight formation (allright he has the Teleport, but if he casts it, there are no spells in effect that will reduce your army's movement). You have no reason to hurry to opposite side of field with your forces, in fact it might be very likely that the fire is in opponent's pants thanks to Cyclops.
Or let put it this way. There is a Stronghold player who has chosen Cyclops and a Stronghold player who has chosen Ogre Magi. Who will win? The answer is self-explanatory.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted September 10, 2002 07:45 PM |
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Quote:
Or let put it this way. There is a Stronghold player who has chosen Cyclops and a Stronghold player who has chosen Ogre Magi. Who will win? The answer is self-explanatory.
Actually, it's not evident. You don't win the battle because you have a free attack with the Cyclops in round 1. The player with the ogre magi has a fairly big advantage in melee capablilities, adn this is enchanced bt casting bloodlust on a few of the units. The opponent can limit the effect by spreading out the units so Cyclops won't hit them all that bad.
The reason Ogre magi are bad is that picking them tend to up your own losses against neutral stacks by a lot. So myself I never build for them.
Fighting against a stack of only Ogres is often a very good source of easy XP while doing the same with half the amount of Cyclops is usually very costly.
The Ogres are good as guards of shooters, but the shooter in this case just happens to be the alternative choice which is bad.
Largo: I didn't suggest Mass versions of the spell. The single target spell would work just as well.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Largo_LeGrande
Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
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posted September 11, 2002 06:24 AM |
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Quote:
Largo: I didn't suggest Mass versions of the spell. The single target spell would work just as well.
What ever you say, captain  !
And I have a idea for nagas: beside the no retallion give them first strike, negate first strike and negate no retallion. Then they would always attack first!
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-Largo has spoken-
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted September 13, 2002 08:44 PM |
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Not giving Devils their teleport feature, that would be a balancing move. Devils are crazy hero killing freaks-no fun in single player but watch them in PvP...
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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