|
| Thread: How to develop a Hero in Heroes V |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
mskomu
Tavern Dweller
|
posted January 17, 2004 11:37 AM |
|
|
100% magic resistance is too good, but it's not fair if there is a chance that spellcaster destroys high level melee hero with one spell.
How about if magic resistance would work this way: XX% chance to resist non-damage spell and XX% damage resist on spells that do direct damage.
____________
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted January 25, 2004 04:21 AM |
|
|
I much preferred the Primary/Secondary skills used in H4 than H3. Though perhaps there could be only 3 secondaries in H5, as you very rarely got to GM in all your skills in H4. Due to this, I'd like to see Wisdom come back as a Primary skill, allowing you to learn higher levels of spells. It's secondary skills being Intelligence (spell points) Sorcery (spell damage) and Wizardry (spell potency/duration).
Then each magic school can worry about it's own particular skills, necromancy, summoning etc. I mean who needed occultism, herbalism AND healing? The amoint of spell points a basic level 6 archmage could have was just scandalous!
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted January 25, 2004 11:18 AM |
|
|
Do remember that Heroes on the battle-field is far from sure in Heroes 5. So giving ideas which require that they are absent (or present) is hazardous at best.
Magic Resistance fits much better as a primary Stat (affecting either Hero and7or army) like Attack and Defence, than as a secondary skill.
If you take away the "Wisdom" part, then there is not enough skills for you to take in the different schools. (And the motivation to take the subskills is poor at best. In H4 you took the subskills to be able to cast higher level spells, with that gone there is little motivation.)
I'd say making any spell available to Fighter type Heroes through a single skill is a bad idea. Exactly the type of thing I'd want the skill system to avoid doing.
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
|
|
posted January 25, 2004 04:02 PM |
|
|
I think there should be 3 magic learning skills:
Magic Research - stay in a town for a while and learn their spells.
Wisdom - learn Water, Air, Order, Life, and Nature spells.
Sorcery - learn Fire, Earth, Chaos, Death, and Nature
So a Might Hero would have a hard time learning spells, and a Magic Hero won't just learn all spells. He would initialy learn all spells suitable for his allignment.
____________
Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
|
|
regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
|
|
posted January 25, 2004 04:07 PM |
|
|
Disagree. I think that the same system as in H4 would be good, not that you're suggesting. BTW, I don't understand what you want to mean.
____________
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted January 31, 2004 02:02 PM |
|
|
I don't think Town Alignment/Faction should result in a corresponding magic skill placed in a skill group, because this assumes that the developers are likely to build in hard-coded restrictions in the game which makes it more or less impossible to add towns in expansions.
This because adding a new town would mean adding a new secondary magic skill, and all the consequences this has on the Hero skill system.
I guess Magic Research could reduce the number of Movement Points it costs the Hero to learn certain number of spells. Perhaps a system like this:
1st level spell: 6 Movement points to learn.
2nd level spell: 8 Movement points to learn.
3rd level spell: 10 Movement points to learn.
4th level spell: 12 Movement points to learn.
5th level spell: 15 Movement points to learn.
Magic Research could then decrease the cost in movement points by say: 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15 Movement points for each spell learnt. Having a character to stay several turns in a town to learn spells is not a good strategy in general turns, but giving the Hero a choice of whether or not to sacrifice movement to learn a spell sounds like a reasonable approach to me.
As for the Magic skills, I don't see why you have two groups? If you can improve on the skills independently of each other (and I got the impression of your proposal that you could) then what use is the groups? Is it not better then to have just X groups of magic skills each with one skill in it?
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted February 01, 2004 06:06 PM |
bonus applied. |
|
so equestrian's gloves or some boots will help you learn spells.
yeah, i understand, it's convenient to use movement points as currency, so you don't want to give your gloves to another rero while you learn spells.
giving it a second thought.. but it would be natural to take off your travelling boots and gloves when you enter the mage guild, why should those items help you learn magic?
ok, so i gess i would suggest % of day's movement instead. and maybe base the % on the hero's magic skill (the higher the magic skill the lower the %). then the % of movement could effectively be called 'time,' i guess.
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted February 01, 2004 09:47 PM |
|
|
You can always deduct movement points based on "unmodified" movement, or precentage of movement allowance. (But then you still get a unwanted effects for items like Troughs and Stables.)
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted February 20, 2004 02:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
- XP table-
The XP required to reach next level increases linearly at higher levels instead of exponentially.
The bonuses for level becomes overall a bit lower since Heroes will overall reach higher levels.
made me wonder why they made it so hard to get a level at higher hero levels while they probably know it themselves that it's better if heroes gained levels now and then.
you know they were also saying that focusing on one hero is what they don't really like. maybe they meant it so that when you can't gain levels with one hero you are motivated to start another hero. and it would be somewhat natural that when your territory increases, the number of heroes also increases.
i don't know how many people really use multiple heroes in homm4. i imagine that people are not very much excited about their freshly recruited low-level heroes and they rather like to forget them in some garrison.
maybe making the hero level bonuses lower and heroes generally less significant would be a good idea.
another problem that might make people want to focus on sigle hero is while most monster stacks are somewhat easy to defeat, there are some tough guards here and there, and you have to use your main army to defeat them anyway.
hmm.. maybe even one of the reasons for the simultaneous retaliation thing was to reduce the benefit for having too large armies.
|
|
Styq
Known Hero
Grandmaster Leadership
|
|
posted February 20, 2004 03:01 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't think Town Alignment/Faction should result in a corresponding magic skill placed in a skill group, because this assumes that the developers are likely to build in hard-coded restrictions in the game which makes it more or less impossible to add towns in expansions.
You got it all wrong Djive! Nothing says each magic system is ristricted to "it's" town. They could have added a drow town in heroes IV and have it's heroes have Order Magic and Death Magic.
____________
Leadership is nothing but being a good actor,
just like bravery is nothing but being a fool
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted February 21, 2004 04:19 AM |
|
|
I agree with Styq. The new monsters added in H4's expansion packs were almost a cross between two alignments.
Goblin Knights were mostly Chaos but Life too.
Evil Sorceresses were Order and Chaos.
Dark Champions were Death and Life
Gargantuans were Nature and Might.
So realistically new towns could have been added on. Eg - A Heretic town (not demons - but life magic + chaos magic = the heretic hero class), with the Goblin Knights could have had a chaos mage guild with a clerical library and a hall of the dead. And so on and so on. Just because the alignments were so neatly opposed didn't mean that that was ALL there could ever be.
And those Dark Champs are just crying out for a dark priest town!
The amount of variation in the secondary hero classes meant that you could more or less mix any combo of skills and still have a viable hero, so why not with the towns as well, there are rebels in all societies that don't conform to one label or another, why not in the world of Heroes?
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted February 21, 2004 09:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You got it all wrong Djive! Nothing says each magic system is ristricted to "it's" town. They could have added a drow town in heroes IV and have it's heroes have Order Magic and Death Magic.
That would throw symmetry out the window. Had I been the designer of the penatagram then i wouldn't even begin to consider doing such a huge change.
Just look at the Tavern interface for starters.
Will this new drow town have it's new own basic claseses or be forced to reuse the Order and Death classes?
Will the new town have a new alignment (a new colour) and how will this relate to existing alignment colours? (Morale penalities)
There is no place to place the new classes in the wheel of hero classes! And if you redo the wheel to include them you ruin the symmetry.
My best bet is that software and graphic changes would have been much greater for adding a new town in heroes 4 than it was in heroes 3 where all of these dependicies did not exist.
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted February 22, 2004 12:48 AM |
|
|
You don't really 'redo' the ring. You add another outer ring to it, with the new heroes 'in between' the existing boundaries.
And as for color changes/alignment: If you were making a totally new town it'd be much easier to just change the evil sorceress' color to suit the new town.
Perhaps not an ideal solution, but viable.
Have Ubi been forthcoming on hero classes for H5? I haven't been keeping up .
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
|
|
posted February 22, 2004 03:27 PM |
|
|
Adding another ring would look and appear bad, a patch-work.
Chaning color of Evil Sorcereress can break games which count on the Evil Sorcerersss being order aligned. Again this is not something I'd really consider.
When you look at Heroes 5, hopefully it will not have anything like a penatagram at all. It just adds constraints without adding much to the game.
I haven't heard all that much news on Heroes the past month or so, but I've been busy with other things.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
|
|
|
|
