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| Thread: Stealth BUG |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 13, 2003 10:00 PM |
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Stealth BUG
I had a long debate in GS today wit Valkyrica about Stealth Skill not working as it is described.
He was unwilling to discuss it rationly so thought I would bring it to the big bad board.
It was pointed out to me that if you move your army 1-2 hexes at a time you can COAX a GM stealth hero into showing himself????
I am not debating that this is fact. I seen that it happens, the part I am debating is the fact that since it happens this way it must be a BUG.
GM Stealth decription says that NOONE can see your hero UNLESS they have Master Scouting and adjacent.
SO it shouldnt matter if a hero lands 1 or 2 hexes from your stealth hero. Thats the whole point of Stealth is to be invisible.
My question is this??? DOesnt it seem silly to be GM Stealth for the purpose of being able to hide from your opponent if he can simple walk by you and make you reappear in front of him.
ANOTHER point. Valkyrica claimed that my hero must have attacked Zuds. However my hero did not move. My hero stayed stationary and Zuds ran up to my hero and Zuds horse raised up in the attack formation.
Now keep in mind I am NOT claiming anyone cheated!!! I am only disappointed in wasting 10+ hours of an enjoyable game only to have it ruined to something like this.
Obviously this is how 3do designed it? Or 3do didnt intend on it to work like this which makes it a bug. And we all know Heroes 4 is full of bugs. Most of them fixed in previous patches.
Anyways I prolly shouldnt have conceeded the game, but seems silly to try and plan your game strategy if you cannot trust what the game says the skills will do for you. Bout like going into battle with your hero that has GM Archery and he only shoots 1 time instead of twice.
It was a great FUN game Zud, really to bad it had to be ruined like that. Wish we coulda seen finished the game.
Jinxer
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zud
Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
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posted February 13, 2003 10:49 PM |
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Confused
I inadvertently stepped on Jinxer's GM steath hero and we popped up in a fight (the turn b4 I noticed he flagged a resource dwelling of mine and I went to hopefully kill the hero and reflag.
When I went to the area, I didn't see his hero but we popped up in battle as I went to reflag and hit a dream teacher next to it.
I guess I dont thing anything is wrong with this. How in the world would u be able to take out a GM stealth hero if u didnt see him when u actually stepped on the spot he is on??
BUG? I personally dont think so......
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Winner or Whiner?
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 13, 2003 11:07 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 13 Feb 2003
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The answer to that Zud... is you must level up your scouting hero up to MASTER scouting so you can see the GM stealth guy. =0)
That was my understanding of how it was suppose to work based off of the description. That is what leads me to say it is a bug.
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notmytohhandle
Known Hero
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posted February 13, 2003 11:22 PM |
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what do i know of heroes 4... but isent that sorta like digging for the grail in h3. there u try digging on spots without knowing its the correct one all the time (if u lieke playing with grail anyways), somtimes u get lucky sometimes u dont.
would be kinda booring if u couldent get lucky every once in a while  alltho grail will always be zzzzzz and stealth sounds zzzzzzzz to begin with .) esp if its suppose to mean that u can never be attacked by another hero unless someone got master scouting or whateva.
just a noob trying to put its nose where it dont belong.
nice to c u r still alive jinx.
good luck in yr games and so. u2 zudster.
/Archie
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kolia
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2003 11:45 PM |
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I think stealth hero is invisible unless you walk on same hexe than him. As you can't see him if no Master scouting, you just fight immediatly. Immagine your GM stealth hero on an hexe which is, for example, blocking the passage. What should do the opponent hero without scouting? passing anyway, considering that if you are invisible you are also insubstancial?  I think it would be the same result: fight!
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted February 14, 2003 01:25 AM |
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from the guy who has only time for playing homm4 single player campaigns
If your hero, troop etc runs into a stealth hero (same square) then there is an automatic battle. Its no bug, but the simple fact that the heroes meet on the same hex/square.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 14, 2003 05:15 AM |
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Hmm so then the decription should read.
" You are COMPLETELY invisible to everyone on the map, Unless your opponent has Master scouting and is adjacent, or if he runs past you withing 1 hex "
I just wish 3do would hold to what the descriptions are.
Doesnt really matter, it seems the majority of you are content with this kinda of flawed descriptions. Live and learn. Now I know for future games that GM stealth means I am not really invisible, unless I am alone on map lol. Just a shame to have to waste 10+ hours of a game to find out the true descriptions and workings of a skill.
Does anyone know of any other skills that have secret descriptions and workings that is not as it is listed?
BTW I have one more question. As I pointed out before, after Zud and I's battle he lost connection and the computer replayed his turn. The computer ran Zuds army almost exactly the same path and his Horse ran right over top of my Stealth guy and kept going. So if what Vesuvius says about no 2 heroes can share same square. Why was the computer player not thrust into battle.
Just curious. I am trying to learn some of these things so I dont waste any more valuable fun playing time.
Jinxer
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Magus_Rex
Hired Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 06:02 AM |
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Jinxer,
I think what happened is not that he came within one or two hexes from you but did actually step on you. Then there will be a fight. Playing multiplayer there is the lag issue when one person is moving or attacking. It may just have appereared to you that he was still 1 or 2 hexes away when in fact he was heading right for you, using Blind luck.
Magus_Rex
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Psychobabble
Known Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 08:10 AM |
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. A quick test confirms that he would have actually had to walk on your hero to discover him (I can send you the test map if you don't believe me). What do you expect the game to do? Allow two armies to inhabit the same square? That could cause all sorts of problems. Conceptually there isn't anything wrong with an army "accidentally" discovering a thief by stepping on him either.
This is a lesson to you... if your thief starts flagging mines/dwellings then you can expect your opponent to start searching for him... you just need to be careful and perhaps only flag important things (like unguarded towns) with your thief.
The in game description is subject to common sense I would have thought...
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japjer
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 09:26 AM |
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i gotta agree with the majority here. you exposed yourself by taking the mine so had a greater risk of getting caught.
think of it as if you jumped behind a tree or something and the hero trips over you. to avoid it, make sure you only take the mines you really need to take the advantage and make sure you end your turn away from the main road, don't walk straight to your next target, cause there's a bigger chance of your opponent finding you since your on the quickest road from a to b.
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted February 14, 2003 01:37 PM |
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I had a strange experience..
I noticed my hero has a movment path comprised of completely yellow movement markers.. but scouting with scouts (not skill) reveals nothing at all.
When a stealth hero is in the area does the movement path turn yellow to alert you? I think that might be a bad thing..
Also if you have set a course for point a.. and the stealth hero sits between point a and b.. will a heroes movement do a sidestep to avoid the hero on the path? or will it move straight through and conversly be attacked.
I have to agree that finding a stealth hero by accident is not a bug though. I mean if you think of a real situation in which a professional theif is discovered by plain dumb luck.. they dont all get away, right
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Psychobabble
Known Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 01:58 PM |
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Quote:
I noticed my hero has a movment path comprised of completely yellow movement markers.. but scouting with scouts (not skill) reveals nothing at all.
When a stealth hero is in the area does the movement path turn yellow to alert you? I think that might be a bad thing..
This is a seperate bug/quirk in the game which many mp players would have experienced. I don't know why it crops up, but it seems to be random and definately unrelated to scouts in the area. Other players may know the cause of this, I just know that it happens for...
Quote:
Also if you have set a course for point a.. and the stealth hero sits between point a and b.. will a heroes movement do a sidestep to avoid the hero on the path? or will it move straight through and conversly be attacked.
That's a really interesting question. I re-opened my test map, and here's the results:
I am both red and blue player. As you can see from this shot, the red (GM stealth) player is sitting at the top of the red arrows (which are adventure objects placed in the editor).
The second shot shows that what Jinxer suspected (that you would "activate" the stealth hero from the adjacent square) is incorrect:
And the final shot answers your question:
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 14, 2003 02:58 PM |
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Thanks pycobabble. That helps alot. So the bottom line is that Zud would have had to placed his mouse exactly on top of the 1 hex I was sitting on and clicked to move. Correct??? I mean any hex 1 way to the side wouldnt not have triggered me, so you would have to be insanely lucky to click on the very hex.
Well with Luck like that Zud, I am glad I conceeded hehe =0) No way I coulda beat you, since " The force was with you " It was still a good game though Jedi Zud
Jinxer
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 03:11 PM |
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"So the bottom line is that Zud would have had to placed his mouse exactly on top of the 1 hex I was sitting on and clicked to move. Correct??? "
Uhmm, he may just have moved through the same hex, no need to go exactly on the same hex.
As for finding the Stealth hero, well, that's what those 1st level creatures are for. Unfortunately, clever player will propably flee once his or her Stealth hero is found.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 14, 2003 04:21 PM |
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Thunder refer to the pictures in phycobabbles post. It shows the hero running over top of the Stealth hero even over the same hex and not triggering him. So that means that the only way to trigger him is to actually click your mouse to end movement on the exact same Hex. That is insanely lucky for it to happen, but I guess 1 outta 1000 chance is still a chance.
I guess the way I took it was that it SHOULD work like the grail in H4 does. Basically you cannot dig the grail up unless you have ALL the oracles. Even if your on that spot the grail isnt there becasue you dont have the sufficient stuff to see it. I thought the same was true about stealth. That unless you had Master Scouting the stealth hero would just not be there for you to even see etc.
But anyways, the answers have been provided and I appreciate it. So now I know how to try and avoid it. I still cant believe how rare the odds are of actually clicking on that 1 very hex, but if its possible I am sure it will happen.
Live and Learn
Jinxer
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 04:43 PM |
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well, jinxer, we meet again
now, to be "rational" about it
You can see in Pyschobabble's screenshots that you can set your movement "through" the stealth hero, not triggering him, but, he doesn't show you what happens if you actually move the blue hero on that particular path, cause he won't go round him, he will attack ... so it's not a 1 in 1000 chance to hit him, and I may probably be wrong here, but it was your fault that he caught him, you should always end your turn with the thief not on his "paths", that means away from the road and "interesting buildings and powerups", being stealthy is being able to stay away from the enemy as well
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Basu
Hired Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 05:51 PM |
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Correct Valkyria.
I like thieves and played then alot!
You always have to hid your stealth hero where the opponent isn't going to walk by accident!
But you always have better movment so that shouldn't be a problem.
I played a game where my stealth hero was moving after Targans main hero for a long time taking everything back!
Great fun because he couldn't find me.
And every turn i ended of the road so he couldn't catch me by accident.
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 05:58 PM |
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I just tested it to be sure, and it is like I said. No luck involved (except maybe in your and Zud's case  ), once the player knows that stealth hero is around, it is child's play to find the hero (provided that the player has creatures near, of course and the Stealth hero is not beyond their movement range). So, I wouldn't bother capturing anything less than Gold Mine in opponent's territory.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted February 14, 2003 06:31 PM |
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Valkyrica, I was blindy taking crappy mines etc ONLY because I KNEW Zud didnt have Master scouting so according to the description of how the stealth skill works he should not have been able to see me so I wasnt concerned where I landed.
It appears that the descriptions as are now proven dont really mean much. As I have said now I have learned how the skill really works so now I can do the counter tactic as you all have been doing of hiding my stealth hero ( seems like an oxymoron to have to hide your stealth hero LMAO) but anyways this post has served its purpose. Thanks to all.
But no matter how it actually works, I personally think it should work as true stealth as description states. =0)
Jinxer
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted February 14, 2003 06:38 PM |
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oh well jinxer, you've always been the rebellious type
Stealth isn't one of your virtues )
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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