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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: do u like heroes 4 editor
Thread: do u like heroes 4 editor
dark_master
dark_master


Hired Hero
posted February 26, 2003 12:34 PM

do u like heroes 4 editor

i think that 3do is such a bad company in game designing. for example, when i was editing a map to play it i realized that there was many bugs in the editor. but besides that everything is cool and especially i liked the way the ground can be raised but i could be more improved maybe like simcity4 ... So what do you suggest people?

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divinedragon
divinedragon


Adventuring Hero
God of Dragons,power dragon
posted February 26, 2003 03:29 PM

HOMM 4 has an ok editor its just that the way it shows water and stuff like that is a little distorted.

but besides that it is ok
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Your almighty ruler,
    Divine Dragon

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GhostWriter
GhostWriter


Adventuring Hero
EtherLight
posted February 27, 2003 07:59 AM

The Heroes IV Editor is quite powerful once you get used to it.  I agree it's very confusing at the start, but once you've learned how it behaves and what the functions do you can get around the bugs and missing features.  The Winds of War expansion will include a help file and new features like an object painter which will greatly increase its ease of use and the output of good fan-made maps.

Try to learn how to use variables in the scripting system, if you haven't already.  With variables you can do almost anything, creating custom and unique quests, keeping track of things the player does and providing them with tailored objectives, and creating a unique world suited to each individual player in MP maps.

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this_other_guy
this_other_guy


Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
posted February 27, 2003 08:53 AM

it would be interesting once you get used to it... but the problem is that it takes too long to do so.
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d

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Lich_King
Lich_King


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted February 27, 2003 11:24 AM

Quote:
i think that 3do is such a bad company in game designing. for example, when i was editing a map to play it i realized that there was many bugs in the editor. but besides that everything is cool and especially i liked the way the ground can be raised but i could be more improved maybe like simcity4 ... So what do you suggest people?


1st: 3do is very bad company in game disign. I agree ! The problem is, that NWC designed Heroes, not 3do. 3do just publishes series.
2nd: Map editor is the best map editor of all the Heroes series ! Many objects, many tools, terrains.
3rd: It will be a lot more tools (and even the object painter) with WoW expansion.
4th: Bugs are caused by you, not the editor. Try reading some scripting skills.
5th: At last a bad thing: No random map generator (oh well... Maybe sometime in the future...)
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divinedragon
divinedragon


Adventuring Hero
God of Dragons,power dragon
posted February 27, 2003 03:29 PM

I never said that i was bad or anything its just that it is quite confusing becuase i tried to make a river and it looked like the grass was still there.
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Your almighty ruler,
    Divine Dragon

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ramparter
ramparter


Hired Hero
posted February 27, 2003 09:41 PM

You were probably trying to make a river on elevated terrain using water, deep/shallow. You should try water, river.

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dark_master
dark_master


Hired Hero
posted February 28, 2003 12:32 PM

Quote:
Try to learn how to use variables in the scripting system, if you haven't already.  With variables you can do almost anything, creating custom and unique quests, keeping track of things the player does and providing them with tailored objectives, and creating a unique world suited to each individual player in MP maps.


hey lady i know how to use variables, i am a Computer & communication engineering student and i am learning programming languages like C++ and java. So what i am just telling you is that this editor contains programming bugs for example : When you are editing a quest and when the player completes it, you want to let this player fight some creatures ok, now the problem is in the "if victorious... else ..." statment, it is full of bugs i tried many ways to solve this problem but no way this can never be done.
So why don't you try it yourself and tell me what happens ok?
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GhostWriter
GhostWriter


Adventuring Hero
EtherLight
posted February 28, 2003 06:19 PM

Well, I'm not exactly sure what the problem is from your description, but one common problem people have is that the victorius/defeated tabs of enemy creatures' and combat scripts is reversed from the player perspective.  "If Victorious" refers to the script that will run if the monster is victorious, not the player.  Vice versa for "If Defeated".  If that's the problem you're having then I can understand your frustration.  It is rather counter-intuitive.
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~Celestial Heavens~

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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted February 28, 2003 09:21 PM

Quote:
Bugs are caused by you, not the editor. Try reading some scripting skills.

That is incorrect.  There are indeed bugs in the editor.  Try giving your hero extra defense and see how well it works!  Getting wandering creatures to join the player's army causes problems as well:  the player can end up facing a force of their own color, or enter the combat screen against no opponents at all.  Using technical gymnastics to get around these bugs doesn't mean they aren't there, and a few of them don't appear to have any fixes yet.

Since I like Heroes IV in general, I like goofing around with the editor.  However, it is definately buggy.  Oh, and the elevation tool drives me nuts.  I completely fail to see why people like elevation on maps so much.
____________
 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult

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terje_the_ma...
terje_the_mad_wizard


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
posted March 04, 2003 11:42 AM

I don't like the HOMM 4 editor, just because it's not as good as the one in HOMM 3.

I don't like the 'map-design' either; in HOMM2 and 3 you could make worlds, but in homm 4, only landscapes. I find it hard to change from one 'philosophy' to the other.

But it's not bad. It's simply not as good as the HOMM 3 editor.
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.

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dark_master
dark_master


Hired Hero
posted March 05, 2003 12:35 PM

Quote:
I don't like the 'map-design' either; in HOMM2 and 3 you could make worlds, but in homm 4, only landscapes. I find it hard to change from one 'philosophy' to the other.



Yea! i totally agree to that, in homm5 the editor must be more sophisticated and more developed in terms of graphics and design.And " 3DO " please try to avoid bugs as much as you can next time(I Hope you're hearing !!!).
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Planeswalker
Planeswalker


Famous Hero
Chaotic Good
posted March 05, 2003 12:40 PM

The HMM4 map editor can be quite good at times, if you're not a noob in map-making, but the help-system isn't as good as it was on the HMM3 ed.

There you could click to see what an artifact did, but now that's gone. So if you don't know what an adventure object does, you'll just have to guess. Or start the game every time you need to find out!
____________
Like 2D RPGs? Download Everestia! everestiagame.com

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dark_master
dark_master


Hired Hero
posted March 07, 2003 08:12 AM

You are absolutly right! Instead of upgrading the editor from homm3 to homm4, 3DO reduced its performance in many ways!
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2003 03:06 PM
Edited By: Thunder on 7 Mar 2003

Actually Heroes 4 Map Editor WAS a huge improvement to Heroes 3 Editor. Main reason is the scripting system.

Could you have made multiple victory conditions to the scenarion in HoMM3 like you can do in Heroes 4? No.

Could you have made different victory conditions to the different players in HoMM3 like you can do in Heroes 4? Answer is no again.

http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=5&TID=1399
http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=5&TID=586

See Kuma's thread about wishes for future editors in Altar of Wishes. You find most of my ideas for Heroes V from here: http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=5&TID=7101

I remember how people used to complain about "missing" copy tools. But really, is there any quicker way to copy object than Ctrl-Drag-Drop system that was in the map editor from the start and not to mention that I used it most in Heroes 3 too. And using object panels as copy tools works fine as well.

The main and almost only thing I miss from H3 Editor was zoom in/out tool.
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dark_master
dark_master


Hired Hero
posted March 10, 2003 11:21 AM

Quote:
Could you have made multiple victory conditions to the scenarion in HoMM3 like you can do in Heroes 4? No.

Could you have made different victory conditions to the different players in HoMM3 like you can do in Heroes 4? Answer is no again.



Well your lousy scripting and victory conditions are full of bugs and errors. I don't know how you can even talk about them!
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted March 10, 2003 04:56 PM
Edited By: Thunder on 10 Mar 2003

Ok. Tell me one that is somehow connected to victory conditions.

I've made more than six maps in Heroes 4 and all of them have scripts. Some more, some less. Those scripts also work as intended. In addition, I've made more than a dozen maps in Heroes 3 (although I don't have most of them anymore). I know how good Heroes 4 editor is and yes, I've found bugs there myself and I know most of the things that can be done and what cannot be done.
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GhostWriter
GhostWriter


Adventuring Hero
EtherLight
posted March 10, 2003 05:58 PM

There are hundreds of fan-made maps out there that use scripts, some of them extensively.  It's true there are some bugs, but the vast majority of the maps out there work just fine and people can get around the bugs, just like any program that has bugs.  In addition, a help file was not included until Winds of War, so everyone has learned how to do it on their own and by reading posts.  So it makes no sense to be defeatist about using the Editor.  You can dislike it for the bugs, but then you are missing its potential.

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Lich_King
Lich_King


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted March 21, 2003 11:14 AM

Ok.... I see that this thread gone too Off-Topic.

Cleaning thread
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Odvin
Odvin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2003 11:16 AM

Quote:
5th: At last a bad thing: No random map generator (oh well... Maybe sometime in the future...)

You map creating people should know Slava Salnikov's H4Util that allows you to do some enhanced mapmaking. It's last version features a Random Map Generator, yes, a good and working RMG for your free use. Made by Slava & Mamaich (both are Russian programmers ). Slava made WoG, you know, you can trust him
The last version of H4Util can be found, for example, here. Documentation included. Good luck, and have fun
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