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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Look inside for all Heroes 4 Charts you will ever need!
Thread: Look inside for all Heroes 4 Charts you will ever need! [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 13, 2002 07:56 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Wub on 4 Mar 2003

Look inside for all Heroes 4 Charts you will ever need!

Table of Contents

All charts are on the first page of the thread:      

Chart1: Spell immunities for illusions and elemental, undead and mechanical creatures.
Chart2: Creature strength
Chart3: Experience points for killing units
Chart4: Wrong artifact descriptions
Chart5: Skill dependencies
Chart6: Numbers of neutral monsters
Chart7: Number of experience points per level
Chart8: Creature size
Chart9: Advanced hero class bonuses


In this thread I hope to post many Heroes 4 charts that you may find valuable. If you wish to see a particular chart, just say so and if I feel like making it, I will post it. If possible, I will try to edit this thread frequently to keep it up to date. Therefore any suggestions, feedback and such are welcome. Enjoy!

Disclaimer: while I tried real hard to test everything very carefully, there may be still some errors in these charts, such as typos. Also keep in mind that these charts have been tested with version 2.2. So, use this at your own risk!

This first table shows the spell immunities of Elemental, Undead, Mechanical and Illusionary units. It is easy to use. For example, if you want to know whether a fire elemental is immune to the forgetfulness spell, check under elementals and forgetfulness. The ‘X’ means that a fire elemental is immune. The spells are classified by level, beginning with level 1, and by magic school. If a spell is not listed, that means that none of the four creature types are immune.

Explanation of symbols:
X    = creature type is immune
-    = creature type is not immune
N/A  = spell can impossibly be cast on creature type.  
      For example, since there are no undead        
      shooters, it doesn't matter if they are immune to forgetfulness.

The spells ‘aura of fear’ and ‘sacrifice’ have two symbols in every cell. The first symbol indicates if the spell can be cast on friendly creatures, the second if it has effect versus the mentioned creature types if they are hostile. For example: you can cast aura of fear on elementals, but it will not work against undead.
A last note is that mass spells are not mentioned here when the single spell is described. For example: mass precision has not been put in the table because precision is already listed and both spells work he same.

____________________Elemental_______________Undead__________________Mechanical__________ Illusions

Precision.............................-.....................................N/A......................................X....................................X
Raise skeleton...................X....................................-..........................................X...................................X

Poison.................................X....................................X.........................................X...................................X

Bloodlust.............................-.....................................X.........................................X...................................X

Bless...................................-.....................................X........................................-....................................-

Bind wound..........................X....................................X.........................................X...................................X

Holy word..........................-*...................................-.........................................N/A................................X

Cowardice............................X....................................X.........................................X...................................X

Fatigue................................-.....................................X.........................................X...................................X
Animate dead....................X....................................-..........................................X...................................X

Life drain.............................X....................................N/A......................................X...................................X

Sorrow................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Unholy song.........................N/A................................N/A.......................................X..................................X

Confusion............................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Wasp swarm........................-.....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Mirth...................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Heal....................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Song of peace.....................X.....................................X.........................................X...................................X

Banish.................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................-

Forgetfulness........................X...................................N/A........................................X.................................X

Town gate..........................-....................................-...........................................-...................................X

Raise ghost......................X....................................-...........................................X..................................X

Aura of fear........................-, X................................-, X.......................................-, X..............................-, X
Plague.................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Regeneration........................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Berserk................................X....................................X..........................................X..................................X

Blind..................................-.....................................X...........................................-..................................-

Death call.........................X.....................................-...........................................X.................................X

Vampiric touch....................-, X..................................-, X......................................-, X.............................-, X
Hypnotize............................X.....................................X..........................................X..................................X
Raise vampires..................X.....................................-..........................................X..................................X

Sacrifice..........................X,X..................................-,-.......................................X,X.............................X,X

Hand of death......................X.....................................X..........................................X..................................X

*to avoid confusion: gargoyles only

   
A few facts from the chart that you may find interesting: none of the creature types are immune to curse, steal enchantment and martyr. And while none of them can be healed by bind wound or heal, divine intervention does work on elemental, mechanical, undead and illusionary units. An other funny thing was that I could blind ballistas . Well, see what more you can find!

~EDIT by Nidhgrin: Sorry for going off topic here, I was going to wait for a little while longer, but you definitely deserved a QP for this thread and the posts below Wub.  Fantastic work, too bad we don't have stickies here so this can remain on page one.  Great work!~
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Daikon
Daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted November 14, 2002 12:35 AM

Hi Wub, how are the things going. As a humble contribution to your thread, I tested the steal enchantment funcionality. You can steal enchantments on undead, mechanical, elemental and even illusionary targets. But you cannot steal enchantment if there´s no valid target in your army to receive the enchantment in question. For example, if your mage is already enchanted with bloodlust and your army consists of undeads and elementals beings, you will not be able to steal an enemy´s bloodlust spell, because there is no legal target in your army to receive the bloodlust.

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 14, 2002 07:49 PM
Edited By: Wub on 14 Nov 2002

Creature strength chart

Hi Daikon . Thanks for your contribution, it is very much appreciated since I don't have to set up an entirely new test scenario now. I will edit it right away!

Chart 2: creature strength values

Creature strength is defined as 'The damage that a creature does with one attack multiplied by the amount of punishment it can take'. In Heroes 4, the strength of a creature is equal to the product of the (average) base damage, the number of hitpoints, the attack skill and the defense skill. So keep in mind that stats such as growth and speed and specialties are not included in the following values of creature strength.

Unit____________________________________________‘Strength’________________________________Class

Imp..................................................................1.050............................................................Lvl 1, Death
Peasant............................................................1.050............................................................Lvl 1, Life
Sprite...............................................................1.050............................................................Lvl 1, Nature
Halfling...........................................................1.200...........................................................Lvl 1, Order
Leprechaun......................................................1.200...........................................................Lvl 1, Nature
Pirate (at land).................................................1.485............................................................Lvl 1, Chaos
Bandit..............................................................1.620............................................................Lvl 1, Chaos
Skeleton...........................................................1.728............................................................Lvl 1, Death
Orc...................................................................2.376............................................................Lvl 1, Chaos
Wolf.................................................................2.430............................................................Lvl 1, Nature
Crossbowmen..................................................2.475............................................................Lvl 1, Life
Squire..............................................................2.475............................................................ Lvl 1, Life
Pirate (at sea)...................................................3.315........................................................... Lvl 1, Chaos
Troglodyte.......................................................3.465............................................................Lvl 1, Chaos
Dwarf...............................................................3.630........................................................... Lvl 1, Order
Mage................................................................4.032........................................................... Lvl 2, Order
Berserker..........................................................4.320........................................................... Lvl 1, Might
Zombie.............................................................5.760........................................................... Lvl 1, Death
Centaur.............................................................8.000...........................................................Lvl 1, Might
Ghost..............................................................10.125........................................................... Lvl 2, Death
Elf...................................................................16.128.......................................................... Lvl 2, Nature
Gargoyle.........................................................24.640.......................................................... Lvl 2, Death
Harpy..............................................................25.920.......................................................... Lvl 2, Might
Cerberus..........................................................30.720.......................................................... Lvl 2, Death
Evil Eye...........................................................31.200......................................................... Lvl 2, Chaos
Medusa............................................................34.884......................................................... Lvl 2, Chaos
Pikeman...........................................................35.280......................................................... Lvl 2, Life
Ballista.............................................................40.320......................................................... Lvl 2, Life
Satyr.................................................................42.588......................................................... Lvl 2, Nature
Mummy............................................................46.800.........................................................Lvl 2, Death
Mermaid...........................................................48.165.........................................................Lvl 2, Might
Minotaur...........................................................68.400........................................................ Lvl 2, Chaos
Nomad..............................................................70.200........................................................ Lvl 2, Might
Air Elemental....................................................81.920........................................................ Lvl 3, Nature
Water Elemental................................................82.365........................................................Lvl 3, Nature
White Tiger........................................................88.445........................................................Lvl 2, Nature
Troll...................................................................97.200....................................................... Lvl 2, Chaos
Genie...............................................................113.400........................................................ Lvl 3, Order
Gold Golem ....................................................128.000.........................................................Lvl 2, Order
Fire Elemental................................................153.000.........................................................Lvl 3, Nature
Earth Elemental..............................................207.000.........................................................Lvl 3, Nature
Monk..............................................................302.500......................................................... Lvl 3, Life
Waspwort.......................................................348.480......................................................... Lvl 3, Nature
Ogre Mage.....................................................367.200..........................................................Lvl 3, Might
Crusader.........................................................427.570..........................................................Lvl 3, Life
Unicorn..........................................................528.000......................................................... Lvl 3, Nature
Griffin............................................................651.605..........................................................Lvl 3, Nature
Efreet.............................................................690.000..........................................................Lvl 3, Chaos
Naga..............................................................784.080.......................................................... Lvl 3, Order
Ice Demon.....................................................882.000..........................................................Lvl 3, Death
Nightmare......................................................961.400......................................................... Lvl 3, Chaos
Vampire......................................................1.012.500..........................................................Lvl 3, Death
Cyclops.......................................................1.026.000......................................................... Lvl 3, Might
Venom Spawn............................................1.352.000..........................................................Lvl 3, Death
Champion...................................................2.812.500..........................................................Lvl 4, Life
Faerie Dragon.............................................4.067.250......................................................... Lvl 4, Nature
Thunderbird ...............................................5.202.000.......................................................... Lvl 4, Might
Hydra..........................................................8.580.000......................................................... Lvl 4, Chaos
Titan............................................................9.031.680......................................................... Lvl 4, Order
Devil...........................................................9.604.980..........................................................Lvl 4, Death
Mantis.......................................................10.195.920..........................................................Lvl 4, Nature
Dragon Golem..........................................11.571.560......................................................... Lvl 4, Order
Phoenix.....................................................11.858.000..........................................................Lvl 4, Nature
Angel........................................................12.316.500..........................................................Lvl 4, Life
Bone Dragon............................................13.612.500.......................................................... Lvl 4, Death
Sea Monster .............................................17.998.750.......................................................... Lvl 4, Might
Behemoth.................................................19.828.800.......................................................... Lvl 4, Might
Black Dragon...........................................52.800.000.......................................................... Lvl 4, Chaos

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aces170
aces170


Hired Hero
posted November 14, 2002 11:06 PM

wow, nice chart, but how did u actually arrive at the values... what do mean by multpying the damage it takes?
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted November 14, 2002 11:32 PM

Is there a chart somewhere of the experience points given for killing a given creature?

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 15, 2002 06:58 AM

Quote:

wow, nice chart, but how did u actually arrive at the values... what do mean by multpying the damage it takes?



The formula is simply:

Creature strength = attack skill x defense skill x hitpoints x (average) base damage. For example:
Strength of black dragon = 40 x 40 x 400 x 82.5 = 52.800.000

The formula logically springs from the way damage is calculated in Heroes 4. Therefore it is a useful tool in creature comparison. You don't need to know much more to compare, for example, griffins with efreeti, nomads with white tigers and bone dragons with hydras.


Chart 3: experience points for killing unit

I'll just give you the link. With thanks to Jolly Joker.
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted November 16, 2002 09:57 AM

Wow, this is really useful.  Great job Wub!

Some things are obvious when playing the game but some positions on your chart really surprised me.  Those Behemoths are lots higher than I would have expected, and those Phoenixes and Bone Dragons way lower.

The list of spell immunities is really helpful too.  Wanting to cast precision on Titan Illusions gives a weird message stating it can't be done and they are skipped when mass precision is cast.  I always wondered if this was a bug or not but apparently it counts for all illusions.  Impressive!  Thanks and keep up the good work

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Klauts
Klauts


Famous Hero
lost in a mourning hall!
posted November 16, 2002 03:26 PM

Nice charts Wub
Have a q:in the 2nd chart did u take in to consideration growth and cost?
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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
about the business
posted November 16, 2002 03:38 PM
Edited By: Celfious on 16 Nov 2002

That would be something along the line's of value. It would be a nice chart however seemingly impossible
The different skill's, spells, and counter effects cant be "calculated"

Great wub
black dragons wow

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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted November 16, 2002 06:26 PM

Ah, thanks.  That link is helpful.  I didn't know that higher level heroes get a bigger percentage of the experience than their lower-level companions.  I'd always assumed it was split evenly no matter what.  That's a good thing to keep in mind.  
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japjer
japjer


Adventuring Hero
posted November 16, 2002 07:20 PM

question about the first chart. it says illusions can get mana flare cast on them. how can that happen when illusions have no spell points?

heh, genies illusioning themselves, the illusions ilusioning also etc, and then a massive ice bolt .

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 16, 2002 08:12 PM
Edited By: Wub on 24 Jan 2003

Glad that this is appreciated...

I'll continue with posting charts then

Quote:
'Have a q:in the 2nd chart did u take in to consideration growth and cost?'

Nope, just base damage, attack skill defense skill and hitpoints.

Quote:
'It would be a nice chart however seemingly impossible
The different skill's, spells, and counter effects cant be "calculated"'

True, but that isn't always necessary for a good comparison. You see, white tigers and nomads for example are almost equal. Same specialties, same speed, same growth, only nomads have +3 combat movement. Now if you look at the chart, you see that white tigers are roughly 25% stronger. So if you want to know which is better on the combat field, you just judge if you'd rather have +25% strength or +3 combat movement. Of course, you could take other things in consideration too, that depends on what you need the comparison for.

Quote:
'question about the first chart. it says illusions can get mana flare cast on them. how can that happen when illusions have no spell points?'

Well, I simply casted 'create illusion' on an angel and casted mana flare after that. Mana flare did work on the cloned angel. Since illusions indeed lack spellpoints, it is beyond me where they need mana flare for . But they are not immune, apparently.
EDIT: Theoretically speaking illusions can gain spellpoints from the mana draining specialty of imps.

By the way, the experience points chart gives a nice idea of how valuable the game designers estimate their own creatures. It's funny to see how they think that 6 ogre magi are exactly equal to 3 cyclopes



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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 16, 2002 08:26 PM
Edited By: Wub on 31 Mar 2003

Chart 4: wrong artifact descriptions

If I want to know how something works, I often try it out on a test map. When you look critically at artifacts, spells and such, it is remarkable how many in-game descriptions are given that are simply incorrect. There are quite some artifacts that do different things then they should do. So I tested all artifacts on their function and wrote down all errors. Very interesting in my opinion!

Artifact.........................Wrong description....................................... Correct description...........................


Potion of endurance........ Increases adventure map movement by 3............ Increases adventure map movement by 4

Greatsword....................Hero's melee attack +13.....................................Hero's melee attack +12

David's sling..................+50% ranged damage against lvl 4.......................+100% ranged damage against level 4

Demonary......................Death summoning +100%..................................Death summoning +50%

Angel's blade .................Hero's melee attack +3, +50% dmg vs undead..... Hero's melee attack +3 (that’s all)

Crossbow of Sloth.........+5 to hero’s ranged attack, casts slow....................+5 to hero’s ranged attack, casts fatigue

Arrow of slayer..............Hero does +50%  to lvl 4 creatures........................Hero does +100% to lvl 4 creatures

Logbook of the ............. +25% movement and 20%  offense/defense..........+50% movement and 20% offense/defense
master sailor.................. bonus at sea............................................................ bonus at sea

Ank of life...................Increases resurrection by 5%, otherwise acts........Increases resurrection by 10%, no matter if
................................. as basic resurrection............................................... the hero has the resurrection skill.

Amulet of the................ increases necromancy skill by 10% or...................acts as basic necromancy if hero doesn’t
undertaker.....................acts as basic necromancy.........................................have that skill. Otherwise: no effect!

Druid’s chain................Increases summoning skill by one level or..............Increases summoning skill by 10 XP/day or
......................................acts as basic summoning..........................................acts as basic summoning

Necklace of charm........Increases charm skill by 5% or acts as....................Acts as basic charm if hero doesn’t have
......................................basic charm..............................................................that skill. Otherwise: no effect!

Statesman medal.........Increases diplomacy skill by 10% or acts...............Acts as basic diplomacy if hero doesn’t have
......................................as basic diplomacy.................................................. that skill. Otherwise: no effect!

Axe of legends..............Hero’s melee attack +8, creatures +40% dmg........Hero’s melee attack +7, creatures +40% dmg
Flaming sword............Hero’s melee attack and defense +3, attack..........Hero’s melee attack and defense +3, attack
....................................does 30 fire damage +3 per level of hero................does 40 fire damage +4 per level of hero.

Spear of the centaur......Hero’s melee and ranged attack +8, melee.............Hero’s melee and ranged attack +7, melee
......................................penalty of friendly creatures is negated..................penalty of friendly creatures is negated.
Death shield.................Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’.....Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, no life
......................................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain life ward.....ward at all.

Shield of Chaos..........Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’.....Hero’s defense +3, +30% creature defense,  
..............................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain order ward...order ward disappears when creature moves.

Life shield..................Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’.....Hero’s defense +3, +30%creature defense,  
..............................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain death ward....death ward disappears when creature moves.
Shield of Order..........Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’......Hero’s defense +3, creature defense +30%  
..............................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain chaos ward...chaos ward disappears when creature moves.

Unnatural shield.......Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’......Heros’s defense +3, creature defense +30%
............................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain nature ward...nature ward disappears when creature moves.

Dragon scale shield....Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creatures’.....Hero’s melee and ranged defense +3, creature
..............................defense +30%, friendly creatures gain the fire..........defense +25%, fire resistance is removed  
................................resistance ability........................................................after friendly creature moves.

Fizbin of misfortune..Casts misfortune on all enemy creatures as long......Casts misfortune on all enemy creatures as  
..........................long as hero has it equipped...........................................as the enemy creatures don’t move.

Mayhem staff..........Chaos direct damage spells do +50% damage..........Chaos direct damage spells do +50% damage,
.............................................................................................................but doesn’t stack with pyromancy skill.

Staff of Death.............Death spell effectivity +50%................................Death spell effectivity +50%, but doesn’t  
.............................................................................................................stack with demonology skill.

Saint Ranan’s staff....+100% to healing spells, +20% to......................+100% to  healing spells, but doesn’t stack with
..........................resurrection skill............................................spirituality skill, +20% to resurrection skill.

Scarab of.................Doubles effectivity of all summoning spells.............Doubles effectivity of all summoning spells, but
summoning.....................................................................................doesn’t stack with the meditation skill.


With thanks to Joel who helped with testing the relics and the major artifacts.

Maybe I should give some extra explanation about the ward shields, the fizbin of misfortune and the dragon scale shield. All these artifacts cast a certain spell at the beginning of each battle, but all of these spells are cast on the spot where the creature stands and not on the creature itself. So if I have a shield of Chaos and I move my creatures, the order ward will disappear from the creatures. However, if I move that creature stack back to its original place, the order ward will appear again.
Artifacts that increase spell effectivity work somewhat awkward as well. For example, the scarab of summoning ought to increase the effectivity of your summoning spells by 100%. But you can't always summon the double amount of creatures with it when you wear it. That is because it only doubles the basic amount that can be summoned and not amount when it is modified already by a spell effectivity skill. Let's say that a level x hero without the meditation skill  can summon 10 leprechauns (basic amount). With the grandmaster meditation skill, this will become 20, i.e. the hero can summon 10 extra leprechauns because of the meditation skill. Now if this hero wears the scarab, that amount of 20 is not doubled, but only the basic amount of 10. In other words, basic amount of summoned leprechauns is 10, grandmaster meditation adds another 10 and the scarab adds another 10. Therefore, if a hero with grandmaster meditation can summon 20 leprechauns, the same hero with the scarab of summoning, can only summon 30, not 40.

A final note: keep in mind that version 2.2 is used with testing. These errors may not occur in other versions (but they probably do). Also, it is still possible that I overlooked some bugs, but everything I did mention is tested very carefully.      
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Agent00BLeRD
Agent00BLeRD


Adventuring Hero
posted November 16, 2002 09:35 PM

Great work, Wub. You remind me of a person I used to know called Re-animator. He had that same "researching zeal" as you. That experience link was esp useful.
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DarkVenom
DarkVenom


Adventuring Hero
Grandmaster Daywalker
posted November 17, 2002 08:11 AM

Hey this is a really great and useful thread on the board! Nice work, Wub! Hope you continue posting here.
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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 18, 2002 08:18 PM
Edited By: Wub on 18 Nov 2002

More charts...

I'll keep posting charts then .

Chart 5: skill dependencies

If you want to know more about primary and secondary skill prerequisites, look at this chart written by Dragonsister.

Chart 6: numbers of neutral monsters

Admittedly, it's straight from the manual, but still:


Army Size

Few.......1-4
Several...5-9
Band......10-19
Dozens....20-49
Scores....50-99
Company...100-249
Hundreds..250-500
Host......500-999
Legion....1000-2499
Thousands.2500+


Chart 7: Number of experience points per level

Level Experience

1..............0
2..........1,000
3..........2,000
4..........3,200
5..........4,600
6..........6,200
7..........8,100
8.........10,300
9.........12,900
10........16,000
11........19,700
12........24,100
13........29,300
14........35,500
15........42,900
16........51,700
17........62,200
18........74,800
19........89,900
20.......108,000
21.......129,700
22.......155,700
23.......186,900
24.......224,300
25.......269,100
26.......322,800
27.......387,200
28.......464,400
29.......557,000
30.......668,100
31.......801,400
32.......961,300
33.....1,153,100
34.....1,383,200
35.....1,659,300
36.....1,990,600
37.....2,388,100
38.....2,865,100
39.....3,437,500
40.....4,124,300
41.....4,948,400
42.....5,937,300
43.....7,123,900
44.....8,547,800
45....10,256,400
46....12,306,700
47....14,767,000
48....17,719,300
49....21,262,000
50....25,513,200
51....30,614,600
52....36,736,200
53....44,082,100
54....52,897,100
55....63,475,100
56....76,168,700
57....91,401,000
58...109,679,700
59...131,614,100
60...157,935,300
61...189,520,700
62...227,423,100
63...272,905,900
64...327,485,200
65...392,980,300
66...471,574,400
67...565,887,300
68...679,062,700
69...814,873,100
70...977,845,500

Not that you will ever reach level 70 in a normal game...
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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2002 06:14 PM
Edited By: Wub on 1 Dec 2002

By request: creature size!

Well, here it is finally: the size of each  creature, ordered by alignment.

Order

Halfling 3, Mage 4, Genie 3, Titan 6.
Dwarf 3, Gold Golem 4, Naga 6, Dragon Golem 7.


Death

Imp 4, Cerberus 5, Vampire 4, Bone Dragon 7.
Skeleton 4, Ghost 3, Venom Spawn 6, Devil 5.

Zombie 3, Gargoyle 4, Mummy 4, Ice Demon 4.

Chaos

Bandit 4, Medusa 4, Nightmare 5, Black Dragon 7.
Orc 5, Minotaur 4, Efreet 3, Hydra 7.

Pirate 4, Troglodyte 4, Troll 4, Evil Eye 4.

Nature

Sprite 3, White Tiger 5, Unicorn 6, Faerie Dragon 7.
Wolf 4, Elf 4, Griffin 6, Phoenix 6.

Leprechaun 3, Satyr 4, Fire Elemental 6, Air Elemental 5, Earth Elemental 6, Water Elemental 5, Waspwort 5, Mantis 6.

Might

Berserker 4, Nomad 5, Cyclope 4, Behemoth 6.
Centaur 6, Harpy 4, Ogre Mage 5, Thunderbird 6.

Mermaid 4, Seamonster 7.

EDIT: how could I be so stupid to forget Life? Anyway, I also got the same values (just to be complete):

Life

Squire 4, Ballista 7, Monk 4, Angel 6,
Crossbowman 4, Pikeman 4, Crusader 5, Champion 6.

Peasant 4.
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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 01, 2002 06:25 PM
Edited By: Wub on 10 Dec 2002

I continued investigating creature size and movement on the combat map. I did/found the following.

All creatures that are not available in town are put in the chart as well.
Due to the isometric view of the battlefield, it is hard to estimate its size. From the bottom left corner to the top right corner is approximately 90 hex.
It appears to be very hard to say which combat map movement equals which number of actual hexes. I made the following tests on grass:

Waspwort; alleged movement = 2; hex movement = 8.
Peasant, zombie, earth elemental; alleged movement = 4; hex movement = 14.
Troglodyte, water elemental; alleged movement = 6; hex movement = 18.
Air elemental, gargoyle; alleged movement = 13; hex movement = 40.

So it is pretty hard to say how many movement corresponds with how many hexes on the combat map. But it feels like something is mixed up really badly. What do you think, Vyl?


Chart 9: Advanced hero class bonuses

This was originally posted by bobntamr1, so all credit goes to him. But since I discovered a few descripton errors in the game, I edited some things.


Tactics in combination with:

Combat General +1 morale all
Scouting Field Marshall All freindly +10% damage
Nobility Lord Commander +2 morale all
Life Magic Crusader you have max morale always
Order Magic Illusionist +20% all illusion spells
Death Magic Reaver You are perm under bloodlust +25%melee
Chaos Magic Pyromancer you have permanent fire shield
Nature Magic Warden +10% melee and ranged attack for all friendly

Combat in comination with:

Tactics General +1 morale all
Scouting Ranger +5 melee and hero gains ranged attack
Nobility Warlord +5 melee
Life Magic Paladin Death ward (50% resist and +50% ranged/melee def)
Order Magic Battle mage magic fist and ice bolt do +20% damage
Death Magic Assassin speed and movement +3
Chaos Magic Fireguard you are immune to fire based spells & 1/2 dam from fire using creatures
Nature Magic beastmaster +20% to summon wolf spell

Scouting in combination with:

Tactics Field Marshall All friendly +10% damage
Combat Ranger +5 melee and hero gains ranged attack
Nobility Guildmaster give chance of stunning opponent
Life Magic Prophet you have perm spiritual armor on (melee/ranged def +25%)
Order Magic seer scouting radius +2
Death Magic ninja you have a poisonous attack
Chaos Magic fire diviner +20% all fire based spells
Nature Magic bard you always have maximum luck

Nobility in combination with:

Tactics Lord Commander +2 morale all
scouting Guildmaster give chance of stunning opponent
combat Warlord +5 melee
Life Magic cardinal +5% resurrection
Order Magic wizard king your melee attack gives max bad morale
Death Magic dark lord your melee and ranged attack gives max bad morale
Chaos Magic witch king wave of fear no retaliation and opponent runs short distance
Nature Magic beast lord +20% summon wolf and tiger spells

Life Magic in combination with:

Tactics Crusader you have max morale always
scouting Prophet you have perm spiritual armor on (melee/ranged def +25%)
Nobility cardinal +5% resurrection
combat Paladin Death ward (50% resist and +50% ranged/melee defense)
Order Magic monk Chaos ward (50% resist and +50% ranged/melee defense)
Death Magic dark priest vampiric attack (for every 2 pts done it heals you 1 pt)
Chaos Magic heretic you ignore the effects of all wards
Nature Magic summoner +20 experience points of summoned creatures/day

Order magic in combination with:

Tactics Illusionist +20% all illusion spells
scouting seer scouting radius +2
Nobility wizard king your melee attack gives max bad morale
combat Battle mage magic fist and ice bolt do +20% damage
Life Magic monk Chaos ward (50% resist and +50% ranged/melee defense)
Death Magic shadow mage permanent blur spell on you(+50% ranged def)
Chaos Magic wizard decreases all of your spell costs by 2
Nature Magic enchanter +20% to all summoning and illusion spells

Death magic in combination with:

Tactics Reaver You are perm under bloodlust +25%melee
scouting ninja you have a poisonous attack
Nobility dark lord your melee and ranged attack gives max bad morale
Life Magic dark priest vampiric attack (for every 2 pts done it heals you 1 pt)
Order Magic shadow mage permanent blur spell on you(+50% ranged def)
Combat Assassin speed and movement +3
Chaos Magic lich attack has chance to age (-25% att, -20% def, -50% speed mvmt)
Nature Magic demonologist +25% to all summon demon spells

Chaos magic in combination with:

Tactics Pyromancer you have permanent fire shield
scouting fire diviner +20% all fire based spells
Nobility witch king wave of fear no retaliation and opponent runs short distance
Life Magic heretic you ignore the effects of all wards
Order Magic wizard decreases all of your spell costs by 2
Combat Fireguard you are immune to fire based spells & 1/2 dam from fire using creatures
Death Magic lich attack has chance to age (-25% att, -20% def, -50% speed mvmt)
Nature Magic warlock +10 spell points and +1 sp pt regen/day

Nature Magic in combination with:

Tactics Warden +10% melee and ranged attack for all friendly
scouting bard you always have maximum luck
Nobility beast lord +20% summon wolf and tiger spells
Life Magic summoner +20 experience points of summoned creatures/day
Order Magic enchanter +20% to all summoning and illusion spells
Combat beastmaster +20% to summon wolf spell
Chaos Magic warlock +10 spell points and +1 sp pt regen/day
Death Magic demonologist +25% to all summon demon spells

Any 3 magic schools = arch mage +20%all spell effects

Chaos magic + Nobility + Order magic = Witch king. Attack sends out a wave of fear (no retaliation, and they run away)

To gain the bonus of an advanced class, you need at least two skills in each. For example: advanced combat, basic death magic and basic occultism is one of the minimum requirements to become an assassin.

Edit: the class requirements of the witch king and wizard king are unclear at the moment.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 01, 2002 07:23 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 1 Dec 2002

It is not that hard: Movement in Squares is equal to:

Minimal Creature Length x Movement

The things that might have confused you:

1, Hills and other inequalities on the terrain do matter
2, Measurement can be a little inaccurate due to creature size problem.

Maybe my equality does not always hold, but it does make sence, isn't it? But you can check it is never off by more than 1 or 2 squares.

My additional data:

Tiger: 9 -> 27/28
Wolf: 7 -> 21/22
Sprite: 13 -> 37/38
Water: 6 -> 16/17

so: 2->8, 4->14, 6->17.5, 7->21.5, 9->27.5, 13->38

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Agent00BLeRD
Agent00BLeRD


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2002 08:17 AM

You might wanna re-check some of those class specialties. I found an error so there might be more.

Nobility + Order Magic = Wizard King, Your melee AND RANGED attacks give the enemy max bad LUCK, not bad morale.

Similarly, although I'm not quite sure, the dark lord's max negative morale works with ranged attacks too.
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