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| Thread: Building capitol first or dwellings ?? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 04, 2003 02:03 PM |
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Building capitol first or dwellings ??
Hello :-))
I'm new to this forum, so please don't blame me if there was such topic...
We're playing Shadow of Death with random maps (Large, no water, monsters strong, difficulty normal) - with teams 2 vs 2.
Everyone is going for a capitol (and castle) in first week, in second week - for an army. In first week we just explore and kill what we can kill with our lvl1 and lvl2 army. We usually met each other in 3-4 weeks. Usually there's a final battle in 4-5 week ;-) We are often equally strong.
So my question is - if it's good to raise funds and then army - or do you prefer to build an army somehow ? We're playing in teams so it's possible to "sponsor" my teammate a little..
We usually battle with non upgraded creatures (there arte some exceptions) - we don't have enough time and money to do that..
Or maybe you have another strategy ??
PS. Sorry for my english 
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 04, 2003 04:13 PM |
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Me no master when it comes to HoMM, but I know that you should get ready to be flamed by the vets lol.
And let me guess - you're Polish, right?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 04, 2003 04:24 PM |
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;-)
Well.. I already found similar topic about it... <blush>
How do you know I'm Polish ? By name ? ;-)
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 04, 2003 04:26 PM |
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No. By the font you use in your posts.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2003 05:12 PM |
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umh....ur font looks just like everyones elses font,but ur email adress ends with *.pl
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 04, 2003 06:50 PM |
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Ever heard of sarcasm? I know the same font is used for every post. And Zbigniew - it really is a toss, to aim for week 1 capitol .
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 04, 2003 07:14 PM |
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Poland rulezz :P
Yes... and you are.. Lukasz ? ;-)
I have just noticed your e-mail adress
PS. Jeez.. my first few posts and they are about nothing important ;-)
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 04, 2003 08:15 PM |
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Hello Zbyhoo,
I donīt know why Woock expected any kind of flaming here, because you asked a reasonable question. I think by far the majority of the vets here have been Capitol-first builders at an earlier point in their life .
The answer is: Play the game dynamically, always go for creature dwellings first, use your stronger army to clear the area around you. As a general rule, buy many heroes, use them to scout, collect stuff, and as a chain for troops transport and combats; take gold from chests.
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Zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 04, 2003 08:58 PM |
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Yep.. Usually, when I play I go for a capitol ;-) But I wanted to try something else..
The problem is that if I go for a dwellings I cannot afford for buying them. And I don't have enough resources to build 7th level - especially that in some random maps there are no mines except wood and ore. And sometimes there are no treasure boxes nearby to pick the gold instead of experience. And some maps don't have both mines and treasures
Second thing - in our "heromatches" we usually end with 7-8 level hero, which isn't to high. But if I take gold instead of experience those few levels may count.. especially secondary skills, which I may not have many..
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 04, 2003 10:07 PM |
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Well, I remember how Pollo2002 got flamed for building town hall day one.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 04, 2003 11:43 PM |
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Quote:
The problem is that if I go for a dwellings I cannot afford for buying them. And I don't have enough resources to build 7th level - especially that in some random maps there are no mines except wood and ore.
Quite often there are no mines except wood and ore on randoms, but there should always be enough resource piles lying around to pick them up - and the gold that you need to buy more creatures to boot. Your goal should be to sweep the area around you as quickly as possible, and buy as many heroes as you need to do that.
It also depends on the difficulty that you play. At 100% and 130% it usually is possible to built 7th level dwelling in week 1, while on 160% and 200% this is hardly possible with most towns, and you need to make decisions about up to which dwelling and/or citadel/castle you go until day 7.
Quote:
Second thing - in our "heromatches" we usually end with 7-8 level hero, which isn't to high. But if I take gold instead of experience those few levels may count.. especially secondary skills, which I may not have many..
 Your heroes should gain more experience if you take the gold: By having a larger army and thus fighting more combats. Wasting the first 9 days to build capitol does not only cripple your troop strenght, but also your hero development. There are very few exceptions where taking experience makes sense (for example to advance from advanced Earth Magic to Expert Earth Magic -> Mass Slow is best spell against the map).
Another tip: Once youīve chosen your main hero, treat his movement points as the most valuable thing that you have. Donīt let him pick up resources when a scout/carrier/chain hero can do the job. If possible, donīt leave any but the fastest units on him at the end of turn. And if heīs far from home and you need to be on the other side of the map, give the army to another hero and attack the next stack - flee and rehire the hero afterwards. If you use him efficiently, in weeks 3-4 he shouldnīt be level 7 or 8, but rather level 15-20. Without any experience from treasure chests of course .
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 05, 2003 04:26 AM |
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Think of it this way:
If you have money (Capitol) then you have money coming out of your ears. But with no army, then what is the point?
Yet if you have an army, then you can take over mines, kill creatures, expand, and make money for yourself outside of the castle. On early turns, this is very important.
So you should get your Capitol later on in the game.
In week 1, you should aim to get as many creature dwellings as you can. Only buy other structures where they will help you to build creature dwellings. You may also opt to buy a Citadel and a Castle on week 1.
In week 2, if you have $$$ then you will have still your level 1 and 2, and then 1 lot of the rest. But if you have army, you have much more.
Try it and see.
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted May 05, 2003 11:46 AM |
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Even tho this is double thread, I'll leave it open for a while.
But can u guys promiss not to open ANOTHER thread about this?
Pretty please?
Good comment, Lews and Zor. BTW
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 05, 2003 01:55 PM |
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Quote:
But can u guys promiss not to open ANOTHER thread about this?
Pretty please?
Depends on how much you can offer .
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted May 05, 2003 06:53 PM |
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Quote:
Even tho this is double thread, I'll leave it open for a while.
But can u guys promiss not to open ANOTHER thread about this?
Pretty please?
Good comment, Lews and Zor. BTW
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW
The friendly Kuma we are happy now, here in HC
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Dig Out Your Soul
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gorman
Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
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posted May 05, 2003 07:11 PM |
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Its kinda like, uh... what's his name said above.... only in my words!
What's the use of having money and land, w/no one to defend it? What would u rather have? Money? or an army to defend it???
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case
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zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 05, 2003 09:34 PM |
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:-)))
Well.. good tips I think :-))
I will try it first alone - because I'm so used to capitol rush I have problems with sweeping the tactic
But thanks a lot - this sounds like a great change..
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 05, 2003 11:10 PM |
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Another way to think of it (if you are thinking that you are a bit of a newbie).
So you don't think that you are good enough to take on all of the guardians without the big monsters, right? And you can't afford the big dwellings without the capitol?
Okay, so think of it this way.
You buy all of your dwellings, as quickly as you can get them, and the citadel and castle, and then you can't afford the creatures for a while. Bummer.
So then you buy your Town Hall, City Hall and Capitol.
And then you buy the creatures.
And then, compared to buying Capitol Week 1, you have an extra week worth of creatures.
Eventually, you will have enough money to buy them all. Or, at least the ones that you want.
And then, if someone attacks you, then you can get enough stuff to defend yourself.
That is the newbie way of thinking about it.
Also, think of what the money does for you.
Town Hall = Cost $2500 and gives you $1000 per day
i.e. it takes 2.5 days to start making money for you.
City Hall = Cost $5000 and gives you $2000 per day.
Plus Blacksmith ($500) + Market Place ($500) + Mage Guild ($2000)
= $8000 + 15 wood + 5 ore to make $2000 per day. That will take you 4 turns to start making money for you.
Capitol = Cost $10,000 and gives you $4000 per day.
Plus Citadel ($2500 plus 10 ore) + Castle ($5000 plus 10 wood, 10 ore).
= $17,500 to make $4000 per day. That will take you 4 turns to start making money for you.
Now, in other words, here is all of the money that you have wasted, and all of the turns that it costs you:
Town Hall (1 turn to build) + 2.5 turns of wasted money.
City Hall (1 turn to build) + 3 prerequisities needed (Blacksmith, Market Place, Mage Guild) + 4 turns of wasted money.
Capitol (1 turn to build) + 2 prerequisities needed (Citadel, castle) + 4 turns of wasted money.
So you are starting off, by doing this, 8 turns of wasted turns, plus 13.5 turns of wasted money. That is 21.5 turns behind! You are 3 weeks behind!
Of course, you might argue that you can start making that money back after that, and that may well be true. But there are other ways to make the money.
Anyhow, you'll see.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2003 11:42 PM |
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Quote:
Town Hall = Cost $2500 and gives you $1000 per day
i.e. it takes 2.5 days to start making money for you.
Itīs much worse , as the Town Hall gives you an additional 500 gold per day (upgrade from 500gp to 1000gp income, it needs 5 days until it has has paid itself off. Works the same way for City Hall and Capitol of course.
Early Town Hall is not that bad though, when at Expert (160%) the map makes a rather resource-poor impression, itīs often best to build it on day 2. Nothing sucks more than being without Town Hall and unable to build anything on day 7.
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Zbyhoo
Hired Hero
Newbie to MP, but learning ;-)
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posted May 06, 2003 09:58 AM |
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Yuppie !!!
It works !!!
It's realy amazing, but it works in practice :-) I need to play a few more games, because I sometimes tend to have lvl 7 dwelling no matter what (most of games - I fail ;-) ). For a few first games a tought that if I can't have lvl 7 it is bad - because if I would build capitol I could be in the same situation (7th level in 2nd week). But I'm starting to realize that it's similar situation - but I have more trops
For now I have some loses in fights, but I think it's acceptable..
And one more question.. (I don't want to start another subject)
I have read few topic about heroes, strategies, etc. and noticed that some people prefer other heroes than Solmyr when playing Tower, and Jeddite or Alamar when playing Dungeon.. When I play "heromatches" with friends we always take those heroes (if we win this castle in our "pre-game lottery" ) :-) Why ?? Resurrection or Chain Lighting is very useful.. especialy if we have 1-month armies in a final battles..
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