|
|
stargazer
Famous Hero
hero of order and life
|
posted May 22, 2003 04:47 PM |
|
|
Asylem mixtures
Stargazer here and i know ive done asylem before but i wanted t know what you thought on these two ideas.
Asylem + Inferno
creatures
lv1 Troglodyte and Imp
lv2 Magog and Demon gargyle
lv3 Cerberus and Beholder
lv4 Minotaur and Nightmare
lv5 Medusa and Effrent
lv6 Black Dragon and Devil
Asylem + fortress
creatures
lv1 Imp and Gnoll
lv2 Lizard warrior and Scarecrow
lv3 Wyvern and Cerberus
lv4 Beholder and Baskilisk
lv5 Nightmare and Mighty Gorgon
lv6 Black Dragon and Hydra
Now if you like any reply and add changes but if you choose the fortress and asylem mix The inferno will be klled off never to return again
sence there is just six creatures ive took out two from each there hows that
____________
When we are young
Wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only Mortal for a little while
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted May 22, 2003 08:22 PM |
|
|
first, who said there would be 7 levels?
sorry for being so agressive (towards the numerous scarecrow supporters), but everybody knows scarecrow isn't something to be afraid of..
========
ok, when there were 4 levels, i thought of an inferno creature lineup (a sketch), but never wrote it, as they were going to have inferno and necro together anyway.
1.
imp (symbol of temptation, i.e. giving in to desire to achieve something in a sinful way).
bandit (someone corrupted by the influence of imps).
well, i would rather have those same level creatures as alternatives or opposites that are both harmful when you go off balance. so, instead of the bandit there should rather be
some creature that is the symbol of blind obedience. i don't happen to know any, do you?
2.
demon1(symbol of desire) wielding shackles as a weapon, binds opponents like dendroids did, but only when it gets hit.
grasshopper with scorpion tail, breastplate and face of a noble (from end of the word revelation where those thingies crawled out of wells in large numbers. hoplessness seemed to be the keyword of the scene of the revelation. so, assuming that hope might be a perhaps somewhat abstract form of desire, the grasshopper would fit here nicely). insects were also considered to be creatures of the devil, so inferno town should be the most suitable town for an insect creature imho.
3.
demon2 (symbol of obsession), could be a one-eyed and one-horned, covered with natural plate or scale mail like skin, wielding a snake-headed whip, or something like that. imho the pit lord ability was the best thing in homm3, and i guess the same ability would suit that creature, i.e. it should resurrect allied corpses as grasshoppers.
beholder, a spellcaster that would cast some curse and disease sort of thing (evil eye). don't know much else about this creature except that it was associated with evil eye in homm3 and evil eye was at least sometimes associated with envy in mythology (if i am not mistaken here), and that beholder is quite a strong creature in ad&d, just thought that maybe it would be here, as long as don't have a better creature to fill that place (i would appreciate if someone corrected me if i had a moot point here). or maybe nightmare could be here, or some creature of frustration.
4.
devil (symbol of sinful harmony).
nightmare (symbol of fear. the reason that it's here is that there is peace in understanding harmony and balance, even if it's considered a sinful one by some people, but imho fear is a product of a confused or undecided mind that has some hidden doubts to say the least).
in this case unicorn as another horse would also have to be top level (in another town), because imho it couldn't be lower level than the creature of fear, but top level would suit the unicorn well, because unicorns were supposed to be stronger than dragons (compromise would be as strong as dragons, assuming there is no doubt about dragons being top level creatures).
========
as you can see, there are only 4 levels, so this is not a real homm5 creature lineup suggestion.
now some of the missing creatures (to get 6 levels total) could be:
gog and magog (symbols of tyranny), they would eat corpses, as they were cannibals according to the mythology as far as i have heard.
some creature that is the symbol of self-torture.
possessed. would perhaps be some hairy creature, the hairy children (it does happen) were considered devilish and burned. well, maybe the hairy children were considered something else than possessed, in that case the hairy one would make another creature.
seven-headed demon that was also considered the prime evil, i.e. the devil, as far as i have heard. and as far as i know, many modern people have seen hallucinations of a many-headed demon, similar to hydra but dark brown or black in color and flowing like tar, when under influence of some psychedelics, so i think the medieval people probably saw something similar. also, similar to the hydra, it regenerated after st george had slashed it with his sword (the one that should be the original story for the numerous 'st george and the dragon' artworks). so some dragon, or even better, a sven-headed dragon would be very suitable for inferno, and the artworks that depict this creature are numerous, and the seven-headed ones are often especially creative.
========
so, imho designing a creature lineup should begin with reasoning, or even better, philosophy, rather than getting a list of creatures that might be cool. but that, of course is my personal opinion based on my own standards. this 4-level lineup with all its reasoning is unfortunately at least partially invalid now that we know there will be 6 levels in homm5.
as a minimum requirement (lol) imho the creature lineup should have:
1) resoning where ends meet.
2) creatures that fit to the theme.
3) creatures that are mythologically correct
4) creatures that don't eat each other.
huh..
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
stargazer
Famous Hero
hero of order and life
|
|
posted May 23, 2003 04:57 PM |
|
|
why 6 were did you get this info. does this mean heros remain on battlefeild. if so that would suck. any ways if they did this mix where is the almighty (not) black dragon???
____________
When we are young
Wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only Mortal for a little while
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted May 23, 2003 06:04 PM |
|
|
checked it again, and the guy who talked about the interview with jvc who had said that there will be 6 towns, made an assumption of 6 levels and then started to make assumptions based on his assumption of 6 levels, so that's where it might have gotten messed up.
so this is true, we don't know how many levels there are, sorry.
========
'any ways if they did this mix where is the almighty (not) black dragon???'
hmm.. who did what mix.. oh, there seems to be black dragon missing in my attempting-to-be-illustrative-about-attitude inferno lineup example. well, my lineup most probably wouldn't work for homm5, because..
maybe thre will not be 6 levels (and maybe there will), but imho it's very unlikely that there will be 4 levels, so there are not enough creatures in that lineup, so even if this lineup would be taken as the basis for an inferno town (which is unlikely), some creatures would have to be added anyway.
and it's also extremely unlikely that they would put unicorn on top level, so nightmare would be unlikely to be top level.
see the text about the seven-headed demon, black dragon is right there.
but.. we don't even know if there will be an inferno town in homm5, do we?
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
|
|
posted May 23, 2003 08:09 PM |
|
|
What we do know: there are six towns, all with some magic connected purely to that town (I don't know about the barbarian town). That makes it a bit unlikely that there will be a seperate asylum and inferno town, since they share more or less the same magic. Of the six towns, we know that there is one purely undead. We also know that there will be a phoenix, which will likely be connected to a nature town. I make this assumption, in order to place the elves and the unicorns and allies somewhere. Since there are only six towns, it is not likely that the phoenix will be connected to a conflux-like town. So this is the most likely buildup of the six towns:
-Necropolis: Absolutely certain, because of the screenshot with explanation. No further explanation required.
-Nature: Almost certain. Where else would you put that beautiful phoenix. And I cannot belief that they would cut out the elves and the unicorns. The sorcerers town has been there since HOMM1 or even back to KB.
-Human: Most people have complained about the weakness of the life town in HOMM4, but the human town has been a very important aspect of the HOMM series and has its roots back into HOMM1 and KB. We don't know anything, so it is possible that they will leave this one, but that would be a very radical change. Besides, who would then oppose the necropolis?
-Barbarian: Also in my list of the musts. The goblins, orcs, ogres and cyclopses need a home. As well as the behemoth and thunderbird, added in HOMM3. Where life focusses on defense, these people focus on attack. Not all of HOMM is magic. You need the might as well.
-Order/Tower/Snow: We know from the interview that there will be giants and/or titans. I cannot imagine them being in any other town than this one. The only other possiblity would be the Barbarian town, but there they would heavily clash with the cyclops. So I find it very likely that there will be a town based on the snowfields, where giant and titan reside. Besides, where would you leave some HOMM veterans, like the mage and the golem. They would not fit in any other town.
-Chaos: The town which is most open for discussion here. We know that there will be "lots of dragons" in HOMM V, because JVC said so. I suppose that includes the faerie dragon in the nature town, but the bulk of them will be associated with chaos and/or the old warlocks. Of course, this town will carry elements of the old HOMM3 dungeon and HOMM4 chaos town, but I find a union with the old fortress and the demons highly unlikely. Remember that the fortress focusses on swamps and water, while the inferno focusses on fire, lava and ashes. The two do not really go together. Personally, I find the inferno philosophy not fitting with the stealthy, sneaky hidden element of the dungeon and fortress, which is most evident in the chaos town. Also, the native terrain of the chaos town is the swamp, which I said clashes with the philosophy of the demons. The only exception here would be the efreet. He does not really fit in that town, but he does fit with the magic. So he can stay, but no more demons than that. Besides, the storyline of HOMM4 states that the efreeti completely broke with the rest of the Kreegans.
I'll just repost my complete adaptation of the chaos town. It does include the efreet and a mixture of fortress and dungeon. There are six levels, which is the most likely amount. The phoenix was described as being a level six creature and it was made so majestically, that I can hardly imagine it not being the top level creature. Therefore, six levels is a safe assumption. I still assume the choosing system of HOMM4, but there is no real certainty about that.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Changes to the town of Chaos.
The lands of Chaos are huge in size and the central government rules of it in theory. But in practice, there are many small communities and individuals that look after themselfes. The central government of what is called: The Empire of the Gold Sea, made an alliance with the creatures of the swamps, among them some of the refugees from Tantalia.
When the war with Paleandra and Great Arcan started, the policies were changed. The government send sorcerers to the communities to enforce the conscription that was issued and they used force if necesarry. The overall control of the army and the land as a whole was increased, bit it did not even come close to the organization of countries like Paleandra and Great Arcan. Still, it was good enough to maintain control and their forces were large and strong.
Level 1:
>Gnoll< (Gnoll hut)
The gnoll has returned from its retirement in the swamplands of Axeoth. They are no longer equiped with flails, but rather with quarterstaffs. They are very decent level 1 units, although quite slow. They are better used for the defense of ranged attackers and sorcerers. They have a 20% of dodging an attack with their staffs. This includes magical attacks. Direct damage spells are not weakened, they either succeed fully or, in 20% of the cases, fail completely.
>Bandit< (Thief's tavern)
The bandit still has its stealth ability, but carried it over to the battlefield. It now has the option to do a hidden movement. The bandit is visible at the beginning, but during it's turn, becomes invisible for the enemy and then moves within their normal movement range. They become visible again when either attacking or walking right next to an enemy troop. If bandits stay hidden for three turns and all other troops are dead, then this equals fleeing. Aside from this ability, they are fast, but weak.
Level 2:
>Lizard sniper< (Hidden den)
The lizard sniper has no ranged penalty and a ranged first strike. They do fair damage, but have horrible defenses, so protect them at all cost. In the early game, they make great units to clear mines, but in later battles, they might get slaughtered fairly quickly, because of low numbers.
>Harpy< (Harpy cave)
The harpy still has that pesky hit and run attack, but they are fairly weak creatures. If the enemy gangs up on them, they are lost, so use their ability wisely. Their movement is now one of the highest in the game. They are overall quite weak, but compensate for that in numbers.
Level 3:
>Minotaur< (Maze)
The minotaur lost its ability to block melee attacks, but they gained an incredible hand-eye coordination, which allows them to block ranged attacks 50% of the time. They always have maximum positive morale. Their defense is good and their attack is fair. They are quite slow, though.
>Evil Eye< (Pillar of eyes)
The evil eye has fully joined the ranks of the armies of Chaos. They still come with that irritating random spellbook. Their damage is fair at most and their defenses are horrible. They also suffer from the melee penalty and do not cast their spells when melee attacking. If the speed spell is available, then the minotaur might be the better option here.
Level 4:
>Medusa< (Statue garden)
The medusa is a ranged attacker with good damage and mediocre defense, but they lost the stoning ability. They should go back to their looks in HOMM3, since they look quite horrible in HOMM4. The medusa, however, gained a poisonous bind, using the snakes on her head. In melee attack, they do full damage and bind the victim. The victim looses 10 hitpoints per medusa per turn in her grip (damage substracted at start of victim's turn).
>Basilisk< (Basilisk dungeon)
The basilisk has gained a 50% chance of paralysing the victim during an attack. A paralysed victim cannot retaliate when attacked and suffers of this situation for two turns. However, the paralysis is dispelled when the victim suffers damage. They are quite fast for ground troops and have decent attacks and defenses.
Level 5:
>Gorgon< (Gorgon lair)
Everyone's favorite cow is back and they have taken back the death stare that the medusas borrowed in HOMM4. They do not kill creature at a certain chance with a certain number per gorgon, but more with a formula like the medusas. Because of their high levels, their ability will still make the level 6's shiver in fear. They have great defenses, but their attack is no more than average. Medium speed.
>Efreet< (Lava spring)
The efreet is a though competator for the gorgon. They have gained the spellcasting ability, just like their genie antipoles. Efreeti can cast: Firebolt, Magic Mirror, Aura of Fear and Fire Aura. Next to that, they have a speed and movement that is close to teleporting and are hard to kill, because of high defenses and the fire shield. Their physical damage is not that great though.
>Hydra< (Hydra pool)
Big, bad and many heads. They might be considered as neutral creatures, because they don't belong in this town setup. I can't place a hydra on a low level, but at the high levels, they get overshadowed by the others. However, if they will be there, they will have to come in classic form, with no retaliation and attacks with all heads.
Level 6:
>Black dragon< (Dragon cave)
The black dragon can go on with being the one-per-week ultimate big bully. But they now face competition in the form of the talurin from the spirit town. The talurin can break through their magic immunity and cause heaps of damage. The black dragon is still the undoubted king of the physical damage and the defense, although the hitpoints are roughly equal with that of the talurin.
>Nightmare< (Dark woods)
Nightmares are weaker than the black dragon, but you get two per week and they are a good choice, even next to the dragon. They now cast a cloud of terror, which works the same as the cloud of confusion, except that it causes terror. They have the ability to teleport and have a first strike. Their attack and defense are a little below average of their level, but they have relative high hitpoints.
Spell changes:
- All schools of magic have some forms of direct damage spells, but chaos spells of the same level are always a bit stronger. Next to that, chaos reserves the access to the sorcery skill. This sorcery skill will perhaps make a combo chaos-someothermagic favourable.
- Chaos will also remain the only one with level 5 direct damage. The highest non-chaos DD spell is the mind implosion from spirit magic.
- Add a level 4 spell, called Firestorm. The firestorm summons a storm of fire over the battlefield. Flying creatures take damage when using their flying ability (they have the option to walk, but this makes them much slower). The Firestorm also causes all firebased spells to do 50% more damage. With efreeti in your army, this certainly is a worthy spell. Nature benefits even more from it.
- Make inferno a bit bigger.
- There should be a form of a landmine spell, estimated level 3.
- Make spell shackle based on caster level, instead of a fixed 10 damage.
- Remove either speed or first strike. They don't have to share both with nature.
- Bring back the firewall.
- Add a level 4 spell that makes all chaos units do 50% more damage to Life, Order and Spirit.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted May 25, 2003 01:48 PM |
|
|
did someone mention that phoenix was level 6 in some nwc interview? i also remember some bragging like 'this phoenix is meant to show what a homm5 lev 6 creature will look like' in some review or interview. in that case i guess i might have been wrong that i was wrong. nevertheless, to be sure i would like to see the original where this was said.
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
|
|
posted May 25, 2003 06:14 PM |
|
|
|
stargazer
Famous Hero
hero of order and life
|
|
posted May 28, 2003 03:05 PM |
|
|
ok i made the changes be sure to look for my next couple of threads for my other list
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
____________
When we are young
Wandering the face of the Earth
Wondering what our dreams might be worth
Learning that we're only Mortal for a little while
|
| |
|
|
