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| Thread: My Ultimate HOMM5 Dream... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 25, 2003 10:31 PM |
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Indeed all the necessary resources are already in the game. Both in right numbers and names. They acount for all the necessary building. But they don't account for the growth of creatures. Those creatures seem to be born out of gold and ore and sulfur. Do they also eat and drink sulfur? It seems strategic enoug hto me to introduce that dimension too into the heroes game. And I don't mean to turn it into warcraft, if anybody thinks of that retort to me.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Saruman
Famous Hero
On academic leave
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posted June 26, 2003 09:50 PM |
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I still don't like the food idea. Undead don't eat, so that would price them even higher, Human units don't eat as much as, say, Dragons, so that would unbalance Castle/Dungeon.
And besides, the government doesn't provide food for their people in the real world! People make the food, the people sell/share/trade the food with other people.
Food should be kept out of HOMM to maintain balance. Most towns are pretty much balanced, but introducing food would require the game to be completely redesigned, so it would mean an even longer waiting period.
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Thank god I'm an atheist.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted June 27, 2003 02:09 AM |
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Saruman, perhaps you haven't read carefully or entirely my posts: I'm not talking about universal food, like farms placed on the map for everybody. The idea was for a special building in the castle. Let's see how that affects your answer:
1."Undead don't eat, so that would price them even higher"- that is untrue, since you can have in the necrotown a building providing whatever you can think of suited for a necroman as food, from human fresh brains to blood...if you insist that a skeleton doesn't eat, ok, fine by me, he would still need a source of energy...
2."Human units don't eat as much as, say, Dragons, so that would unbalance Castle/Dungeon." - again, it's not about quantity, but quality... supposing a dragon it's daily a tone of fresh flesh and an angel drinks only some cups of ambrosia, still those cups fill cost more.(perhaps you'll insist that angels don't eat&drink, but how do you know that? - because greek gods did, you know?...)
3."And besides, the government doesn't provide food for their people in the real world! People make the food, the people sell/share/trade the food with other people." Hey, are you really serious? First heroes is not about governments and REAL worlds, including the liberalism and capitalism you're talking about. Second, I never said the food sources should be centralized. You're arguing with yourself, because if you we're right, you shouldn't also be able to build marketplaces and other buildings in the castle.
4."Food should be kept out of HOMM to maintain balance." If you were to introduce another mineral resource would that unbalance the game? Why is food so special? If I was to follow your argument, how many sulfur is needed to build a dragon compared to a tiny winy angel? Does that seem balanced to you? And they surely don't need to redesign completely the game. Please read my thread called " New resource/buiding for H5" and you'll see how easy it is.
So, please be more specific about the balance you're talking about.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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borsuk
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 03, 2003 02:21 AM |
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My comments
Water town: how are water creatures supposed to travel on land ?
Vassals - why should I make someone my vassal, If I can take all his castles. gold, resources anyway ? Pointless.
Walls aren't that great idea, but garrisons sound fine.
About f00d: top level creature growth is already limited by resources. If you think army size should be limited somehow, make creatures require resources ( like 1 gem per 50 sprites, 1 ore per 20 pikemen, 1 crystal per 10 cyclops etc). Still, I don't like the idea very much. But it's certainly much better than food. Maybe if you called it "supplies"...
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lordofchaos
![lordofchaos]()
Disgraceful
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posted July 10, 2003 09:58 AM |
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the resources that were in homm3 are fine. but, i think there should be more town types... like a... type based completely on golems.
lvl-1
stone
lvl-1 upgrade
iron
lvl-2
gem
lvl-2 upgrade
ruby
lvl-3
emerald
lvl-3 upgrade
topaz
lvl-4
silver
lvl-4 upgrade
gold
lvl-5
sapphire
lvl-5 upgrade
diamond
lvl-6
gate ram
lvl-6 upgrade
gate destroyer
then lvl-7 should be a choice of two units and it's upgrade
lvl-7 option1
flying machine
lvl-7 upgrade option1
bombers
(not modern looking)
lvl-7 option2
dragon golem
lvl-7 upgrade option2
perfected dragon golem
i'll come up with stats later
also, one type should get a chimera at some point
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted July 10, 2003 05:58 PM |
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i would suggest something that would be even more "unbalancing" than food, lol:
localize all resources. build stores in towns to store them and treasuries to keep the precious ones safe from thieves. caravans escorted by military to transport resources from a mine to a town or from town to town.
lol. that would rearrange the game a lot more than food imho. and i must say i would vote for this kind of rearrangements.
the whole purpose of this idea is to make the positions of towns more important. and to bring the idea of protecting your recources into the game along with plundering of enemy towns.
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btw totally undecided about the food thing, it might fit into the system, but it should not be on the same level with the resources we already have in the game. atm the food management is hidden, maybe it's best that way. but maybe making the food a little less hidden in some way might bring new strategy int the game.
e.g. you build a granary in a town and when the enemy is camping at the gate, the granary doesn't get new supplies, when the granary is empty then you start to starve. and you could have draught spells or whatever. and terrain would affect what kind of creatures could get food there. and some towns might need caravans bringing food from other towns. and we could have more explicit town population (i think civ population system is a good example).
those are some few possibilities that come to mind in a few seconds, maybe some of them would add something to the game (talking about fighting for strategical positions on the map). but maybe it is better not to introduce new strategy into the game, so i'm undecided.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted July 11, 2003 09:22 PM |
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Localizing resources is a great bonus for strategy, I think.
First of all, mines should provide resources as long as the comercial trade routes are opened. Blocking the way by enemies or neutrals should stop the income if that is the only way or decrease the income if there are longer ways roundabout.
Then, the towns. I agree resources have to be stored in the town, and they might be plundered. An enemy who takes your town can start plundering them, not instantly but using caravans, and only a certain amount per day.
The distribution of resources between your towns comes automatically, the nearest town taking all resources from a certain mine. If your second town needs wood or ore, you ship it via caravans. Delays in buildings, of course. If you think in advance you ship all you need where you need before the construction of whatever building.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted July 11, 2003 09:33 PM |
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well, actually i meant that the first place where the resources are gathered is the mine, not the town..
the caravan between the mine and the town could even be set up automatically. and if needed, you could drop creatures in the mine to escort the caravan.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 11, 2003 10:05 PM |
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I tend to believe that localizing all the resources tend to add a lot of needless micromanagement to the game.
To counter this micromanagement you would likely need to reduce the resources to half or perhaps even fewer resources. (Or you would be playing more like a city simulation game than a fantasy game.)
Also you should distinguish between what is in a town, and the things which the player has access to in a town.
A town likely have between a few hundred to a few thousand individuals.
When the player builds a creature dwelling, then that mainly serve as a training dwelling for that creature. Capable of training a certain number of the total population per week. (The actual population is much greater but training just can't be done quicker.)
The player is not responsible for feeding citizens in the town but would have to feed (and equip) the own troops.
What you really need to add is an upkeep for a creature in the form of Gold or/and Resources.
If you take the Heroes 4 system you also have the complication that the player may not have a town at all, but may have mines.
And you have complications like the player having required resources but in another town or in a mine. Should they then be allowed to build in the town, or will you require caravans and the player can build 5 days later?
Localizing resources adds a lot of features to areas which so far have not been a central to the heroes series.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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moonlight_sh...
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 13, 2003 01:30 PM |
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I think there are already enough resources in heroes... i sometimes have trouble getting those 
I dislike the idea of having to choose between two different creature dwellings... it really limits the number of creatures in your army and makes the castles seem "fragmented"; and i hate the fact that they're all the same (more or less); i also hate not being able to upgrade them - that was half the fun!
for heroes 5 i have alot of ideas, including a castle of my own; there should be 10 castles (or more
1.life
2.death
3.order
4.chaos
5.earth
6.air
7.water
8.fire
9.light
10.shadow
"my" castle is shadow: it should look like a dark fores, the atmosphere should be twilight, with the sun setting on the horison, and a few stars sparkling in the sky;
creatures:
level 1: giant spider (from spider nest) - poison
level 2: faary ->evil, black faerie (from withered lily) - 50% chance of the opponent missing it in attack (being really small and fast); light ward
level 3: night elf (from temple of twilight) - healing; concealment (it can become invisible when defending)
level 4: soul reaver -> a shadow holding a dreamcatcher-like staff (from soul catcher) - vampiric touch by passing the staff through it's opponent, it catches a part of it's soul; light ward
level 5: Lizardcrawler -> a basilisk-like creature with no enemy retaliation & light ward (from swamp)
level 6: Moonbird -> a crow-like bird with 6 eyes, ridden by a hooded man (from moon aviary); light ward, ages enemies, -5 enemy luck
level 7: Shadow elemental -> a dark shadow, changing into the shape of the opponent's strongest creature with trippled attack, defense, health and damage (from constellation); VERY powerful against strong opponents and weak against weak opponents, but also expensive and with a small growth rate; light ward, -10 to enemy morale, teleport ability;
shadow terrain: a dark forest which makes all non-native creatures unable to use ranged attack >:-)
i'd have more to say, but i'm pretty tired... bye!
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 16, 2003 04:55 AM |
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Great post by Moonlight Shadow.
I like the alignment list. The description of the Shadow town creatures made me really want to play and experiment with them.
I wonder if a Banshee would also fit into the Shadow theme.
I am not sure about the idea of the terrain removing ranged abilities though.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted July 16, 2003 11:54 AM |
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'level 1: giant spider (from spider nest) - poison
level 2: faary ->evil, black faerie (from withered lily) - 50% chance of the opponent missing'
i see the trouble that the spiders will feed on the faeries.
otherways, never heard about the moonbird, but it looks interesting and makes me curious.
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btw if there's nothing that speaks against faeries being illusionists (imho they should be something like that) i would suggest that a normal faery would turn into random creature in the range of her health points every round.
Maybe we could even have a faery town that way (the health points of the faeries increase each level):
lev 1: normal faery
lev 2: florid faery
lev 3: buxom faery
lev 4: corpulent faery
lev 5: fat faery
lev 6: faery dragon (this one has the special that she can turn opponents into random creatures every round)
i think they could also form an upgrade tree. as some bonus creatures you could have some other illusionists: leprechauns and kelpies, maybe even some types of forest elves would be ok there. maybe some phantoms, if they fit the theme of a faery town.
of course some type food (e.g. nectar) might be fit as a resource here. faeries don't eat ore, you know.
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 17, 2003 12:13 AM |
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Quote:
lev 6: faery dragon (this one has the special that she can turn opponents into random creatures every round)
Cool
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted July 17, 2003 12:43 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
lev 6: faery dragon (this one has the special that she can turn opponents into random creatures every round)
Cool
well, i thought it would be too crazy, but now that i think of it the second time.. maybe it isn't so crazy after all that your devil stack turned into a peasant stack with the same health points.
or even worse, your melee stack that you have taken near the opponent has turned into a shooter and yout shooter stack in the back lines has turned into a melee stack.
some people have loudly voiced their opinion that they hate unpredictability in the game, even if it's just some % chance of some much less significant special effect happening, like the zombie poison.
and even worse than the above, at the same time when your shooters and melee have a considerable chance to be messed up, in the army with the faery dragons, there are stacks from non-faery towns that shoot and melee at you in a non/chaotic way. looks almost like cheating loophole to me.
so please don't take my post too seriously, or at least don't take it word for word. the second part of it was meant as a joke, and i guess the beefy faerie lineup was a good enough clue.
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on the other hand i admit that i would like some ability of this type with the faery dragons rather than the standard bombing with destructive spells or whatever. maybe the dragon could just have a chance to turn one opponent stack into something else for one round, based on the healths of the faery stack and the opponent stack. maybe the health of the transformed stack could be modified by the level difference with the original creatures.
i would also like the turning into random creature thing with faeries or leprechauns that are illusion creatures (at least leprechauns imho) rather than fighters. this way a leprechaun wouldn't really melee as a leprechaun but would melee as an illusion.
and there's something like faery dust, i don't really know what it's properties are, but as far as i understand, it has something to do with faery magic. anyone can help me out here?
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 17, 2003 05:18 AM |
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Alternatively there could be a shapeshifting type creature that can become any other type of creature on the battlefield for the rest of the combat.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted July 19, 2003 12:03 AM |
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a second thought about food
the food store in a castle could just be implemented as a timer of how long the enemy has been blocking the gate.
enable spells like draught or lean years.
the food needed for creature upkeep would add some micromanagement, but it would add some need for pre-planning army movement
1) when you have to tarvel with troops, especially when you pass non-agricultural land.
2) could affect what creature dwellings you could build in the town (e.g. fresh corpses needed for fleshy undead, meaning there should be living population in the town that eats).
3) when you keep troops that eat are kept in a town that is on non-agricultural land (you have to supply the troops with food).
another complication might be that the city population would have to be taken into account.
and now the imho nice feature of giving the barbarians the cannibalism ability: turn those killed in a vitorious battle into food. if there are non-barbarians in the army, the cannibalism ability would not apply to them, of course.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Lordskeleton
Adventuring Hero
The really REALLY bad guy
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posted July 19, 2003 03:15 AM |
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Poor Tarnum. Got eaten by Wearjak =)
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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Vad gagnar det en människa om han vinner hela världen men förlorar sin själ?
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