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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Number of levels
Thread: Number of levels This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 03, 2001 05:29 PM

Poll Question:
Number of levels

How many levels of creatures should be in HOMM4?
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

Responses:
Four levels, like 3DO said, will be best.
Six levels, like they originally promised!
Seven levels! Anything less is a regression!
More than seven! The more the merrier!
I don't care!
 View Results!

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LadyLily
LadyLily


Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
posted July 03, 2001 05:35 PM

I would think that the most you would want or need would be 8. The more it just becuae that the 1st level troops mean nothing.
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-LadyLily

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 03, 2001 05:42 PM

7 levels a minimum for me.

My ideal # of levels is 7, with no choice of creatures, but a choice of one of two upgrades.  Level 7 would just be upgradeble twice, witrh no choice of upgrade.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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Melf
Melf


Known Hero
Bearer of Light
posted July 04, 2001 01:32 AM

Seven levels are fine, although less would be good too... Above 7 is too much and it only brings confusion.
____________
Melf,The Acid Arrow

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sikmar
sikmar


Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
posted July 04, 2001 10:48 AM

Eight levels, but separated in time

I mostly agree with Coldfyrius, except for an eight level non-upgradable creature which maybe you should only get in your capitol (let's diferentiate the capitol more...). Branching is a very interesting option, but you could have the same seven basic creatures and branch the upgrades. That way you could build the different upgrades in many towns and then carry the troops to get the selected upgrade depending on the game needs.

Another poster said that with many levels the first and second level creatures turn useless. This could be prevented if they limit dwelling construction depending on the time of play. Imagine: you can build the first four levels as soon as you have the resources and prerequisites, BUT for the fifth and superior levels, you need to grow a certain number of generations from lower levels. Let's say: to build the cyclops dwelling, two generations of ogres must be born in your town.

This could be a system to make all the creatures useful. First levels will be needed on the first weeks of gameplay, and later the superior levels will do their part.

____________
This is my truth. Tell me yours

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Ash-NIR
Ash-NIR


Known Hero
the Black Warlock
posted July 04, 2001 04:38 PM

I would be ok with 6 lvls AND a choice of creature per level. It's either that or 7+ lvls, 4 lvls is worse than HoMM1 !!!
____________
"ana:l nathrakh, u:rth va:s bethud, dokhje:l djenve"  

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 04, 2001 10:23 PM

It looks like we have a pretty strong consensus that 4 levels are a bad idea.  Not everybody feels as strongly about it as El_Diablo, but nobody has come out in favor of 4 levels.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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Gravdragon
Gravdragon


Known Hero
Barbarian
posted July 04, 2001 11:35 PM

I think six levels are good if there are choices like they said at first. Four levels are bad, very bad.

But I agree with Incubus, the upgrades are tedious and boring. It takes time and money to get practically the same looking creature. If there really where six choices that would be really great.
____________
L´ombre fatal - The shadow of death

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ozzyosbourne
ozzyosbourne


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
posted July 04, 2001 11:37 PM

more than 6 levels are kick ass to me.. i want more creatures of every kind to be in my army...

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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted July 04, 2001 11:47 PM

Having a lot of different creatures in one castle is NOT a good idea. If you have lots of creatures, this usually means they look alike a lot.
Here's my thought on why 3DO decided to let you choose witch one you want to fight with.

First of, they wanted to make Homm 4 with more differences between individual creatures. When they started making creatures they discovered this was harder then they thought at first. To make creatures different from eachother you need to have a big difference in creature strength as well. Making the game they wanted to introduce paladins, but not keep out the angels. Paladins have to be strong, because that's just what we want them to be
So this way angels and paladins will be to alike in STRENGHT but not as individuals. So here you have a problem, we want to see them both, but also as highest level creatures of the Haven. Hmmmm, what would be the easiest way to solve this? We will just let them pick one!
See? I think this was why they decided to let us pick.

As a result of this we can conclude the following.
There will be about 60 creatures in homm 4, a douzen of em new and the rest updated a bit. We will not see 3 of the creatures of the town you pick. 3 x 6 = 18 creatures you will not see (unless they are wandering creatures ofcourse)
60 - 18 = 42. A little bit of mathematics makes me even angrier there are so few creatures
____________
Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 05, 2001 04:21 AM

Easy solution:
Since you have a choice of creatures, simply eleminate the need tom choose.  The two level 1s can be level 1 and 2, the two level twos can be level 3 and 4, etc.
That way the 3DO people don't need to come up with too amy creaures, and we get our eight levels.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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Gravdragon
Gravdragon


Known Hero
Barbarian
posted July 05, 2001 01:16 PM

But...

..Its a very good idea to choose between creatures. You can make two different towns if you have two same cities (if you want to win ,you should build the same creatures in the two towns though).

____________
L´ombre fatal - The shadow of death

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 05, 2001 04:00 PM

How about this idea: You don't choose the basic creatures, but you have a choice of 2 upgrades.  It's bbeen suggested before but really hasn't gotten much attanetion recently.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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LordPaul
LordPaul


Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
posted July 05, 2001 09:22 PM

I think the choice between two creatures is the way to go.  I would rather have that and 4 creature levels then splitting them up into 8 creatures levels.  But I would much rather have 6 creature levels and a choice between creatures.  That would be the best.  8 or more levels and it would just get tedious.  I really think that 6 levels is the mark, and the choice between two is the way to go.  (God, I'm actually starting to get used to the idea of 4 levels... Noooooooo!  Someone stop me! )
____________

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 05, 2001 09:28 PM

Yeah.  Tht 8 levels thing was just an idea for an easy fix for 3DO.  I'm in favor of 6-7 levels myself.  I think I'll email this thread to 3DO.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted July 06, 2001 06:17 AM

4 levels

Of all the things I heard about H4 I thought many of them were interesting and a good idea, but I had doubts about letting only 8 creatures wander the map and without heroes since that means an end to chaining and a completly new way of playing, and also the worst of all- 4 units per town? How the hell can a battle last any length of time then? It will be over in 1 round. And if your heroes fight in the battles, it seems Chaos magic the very best magic, 1 spell knocks out enemy hero and then your enemy can't cast any spells unless he has more than one hero, then people will be creating gangs of hereos since apparently there is no upper limit on heroes, only on the amound of armies on map at a time... so I sense a patch coming here. Too many things are lost with only 4 units per town. The only thing fun would be more than 2 towns, but then with the differnt towns so unique, how does that fit with mixing dif town types? Also, if you have 2 of the same town and build them both different routes, that would be just like 7 units in the first place(since level 1 units same in both towns...)

Now if you have a fight in week 2 let's say- you have one army with 4 units and 5 heroes, and other army with 4 units and 8 heroes- does each hero cast a spell or only 1 spell per battle round? This could be a big mess- I give credos to NWC for righting their pass messes, but it took 3 patches, this will be much more difficult to patch since it's part of the sytem. Not really a bug. The other thing- with 7 unique(as in different stacks etc)per town- that meant you could divide your forces between armies better, and also in the final battle, let's say you lose 2 stack round 1 because opponet recieves morale move, well, that is only 30% of your army roughly, no same circumstances you would lose 50% of your army!  That is a huge difference to how playable the game is.

As for developing structures on the map, that is interesting, a good idea I think. Raiding is then more profitable and it is more lifelike as in a real war. However, fog of war will make things very hard when you play multi player. Can you seperate a unit from an army while out in the field or only in garrison? Because every army will need scouts to prevent ambush, but if you lose a scout as you cross the map and can't replace him without waiting days before one arrives from your town, all sorts of situations there which could be interesting or not, but then map speed will rule everything. Even more than it does now. It's not good to make everything the same speed, otherwise someone could run their army around forever even if only a few units and capture towns staying always ahead of pursuit, but- well, i'll wait and see, but I was going to buy game directly the first day I could before, now I am going to wait and see what other people that buy it say.
____________

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sikmar
sikmar


Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
posted July 06, 2001 10:15 AM

Maybe we already have eight levels

and it's a little early to start complaining. Imagine you have several towns of the same type (this will occur more frequently due to the reduced number of town types). You decide what creatures to grow in each town and, using the caravan system, redirect all you armies to one point (town, garrison, anywhere in the map...) What do we got? Eight troop types reinforcing your hero on the war front.

Consider that, with the caravan system going on and your troops being able to move by themselves, YOUR HERO DOESN'T NEED TO GET TO THE TOWN FOR RECRUITING. So, does it mind what town your reinforcements came from?

You can specialize your towns: "Hey, this town is surrounded by behemoth dwellings. I'll grow my behemoths here..." And this isn't all. There have been clues of dwellings being destructable and rebuildable on the towns (that pair of new buttons in the screenshots), so you can vary your decisions during the game: "Hmm, I think a good shooter will fit better against that enemy. I will order my towns to stop minotaur production and start growing medusas..." (just an example).

There's only one sure thing. As somebody posted before, HOMM4 seems to allow an absolutely new bunch of strategies, specially on building and troop logistics

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LordPaul
LordPaul


Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
posted July 07, 2001 02:38 AM

Have you got a reply to your e-mail yet?  

Wait.  How can you have all these creatures in the Asylum with only 4 Levels?

Troglodyte
Bandit
Minotuar
Medusa
Evil Eye
Nightmare
Black Dragon
Hydra
Venom Spawn

and there is another dwelling in the Asylum screen shots that don't go with any of these.  It looks like a pool of lava with Stalagmites coming out of it.  It isn't for the Nightmare because they (I think) come from the burning trees.

So that's about 10 creatures!  How is that possible?
____________

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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted July 07, 2001 03:45 AM

Line up is, I think:
Orc/Bandit
Medusa/Minotaur
Nightmare/Efreeti
Hydra/Black Dragon
And I haven't been able to find the email address.  Do any of you know what it is?
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen

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Lichie_Lich
Lichie_Lich


Hired Hero
posted July 07, 2001 06:22 AM

7 levels are not much nor less. 7 levels are the most ideal for me!
____________

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