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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 09, 2008 03:03 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 15:06, 09 Mar 2008.
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Nothing much more logical than saying the upgrade of a Lich will have more Power. 
You get four chances to come up with names for an upgrade. Why not pay a little homage to the three games that made the series what it is by filling one of those slots with the original upgrade's title?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 09, 2008 04:15 PM |
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Three?
Also, good stuff Alc, although I feel having Spirits AND Wraiths is a bit redundant. What about having mummies instead (No placement in particular, just a thought)
About the Vamps: I'm opposed to having "Prince" "King" "Queen" "Emporor" etc in names. What about the upgrade path Vampire > Mortoi > Strigoi?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 09, 2008 04:31 PM |
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Quote:
Three?
Heroes I, II and III...? 
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 09, 2008 05:05 PM |
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Because V was uninvolved...
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 09, 2008 05:07 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 17:08, 09 Mar 2008.
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...in creating the series in the first place, yes.
Anyway I'm done hijacking, sorry Alc. Delete this at your whim.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 09, 2008 05:19 PM |
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Woah ... lots of replies in a really short time! Should have seen that coming with Necropolis, always the odd favorite. Anyway, I shall try to make replies to some of your comments.
Orfinn
Good question about why 8 tiers. The simple truth is, that it was convenient: For almost all the factions, there are some "lost" children through the chapters of the series that I could bring back in line with this approach: You've seen already the Pikeman, the Efreet and the Blackknight appearing once again in the line-ups, and the fact was that for practically every faction, there was a certain 8th creature that I think deserved a place in the line-up as much as any. Also, it was something new - we've had 7-tier line-ups in Heroes 3 and then again in Heroes 5, so expanding to 8 tiers would bring a slightly new image to this part of the game.
About the Hero classes - this is something which is still quite open for this faction. Traditionally, the Necromancer is considered a Magic class, but fact is that its workings (amassing lots of troops) lies much more within the area of might than magic. But since I haven't made the final Hero class specifics yet - in fact, I only have a couple of very old models that need a lot of modification - the case is still very open - and whether the other class will be Mystic, Reaver, Revenant, Deathbringer, Death Knight, or something else, is open.
TheDeath
Swapping Dark Knight and Wight on tiers 6 and 7 is something I've been playing around with more than once myself. The reason I chose this configuration was that Necropolis has an overgrowth of flying units, and in this was they were more or less evenly distributed (notice that the Wight is "floating" in this version). Also, the Dark Knight upgrades has a couple of pretty potent abilities - but then, so does the Wight. I'll return to this below, when I'm adressing Daystar's comment!
About the Zombie - Ghast - Ghoul thing: I don't really agree with you there. I envision mine as the D&D versions of these creatures, and I think they go well within the same group. And yes, the offensive branch will be faster!
Cepheus
About the names, I think many of these are a bit toss-a-coin on which is the better. Nosferatu is good, will probably take that one in. Bloodsucker is not so good - sorry, but that's bound to end up ending like a joke on line with the Rainbow Dragon, if you get me. I really like Reaver, but it's too closer to Reaper for me to include both. That's simply going to cause confusion. I do agree the Liches are too much alike - I will work on that. And please - the name suggestions help A LOT, even if I don't use some of it - it's really nice to have input on this, because coming up with all these names is simply not even, and your mind tends to run in loops after a certain time.
GenieLord
I am aware of the Skeletal Ghost Dragon!!! XD Obviously, you understand why I will not give Incorporeal already on first upgrade, even if it's nerfed a bit (which it is!), but I agree the name simply sounds contradictory. Guess I'll have to look into that once again.
Geny
Good catch about the Skeletons - hadn't considered that! *lol* Guess that either: 50 % + 50 % = 75 %, or they get a new ability, "Medium Shield" (yes, that does sound silly!) which only reduces damage by 25 %. I probably favor the latter, as the 50 % shielding of all surrounding units actually is pretty potent.
Good call on the Dragons! Seems I have a lot here to work over.
Daystar
You actually bring up something here that has REALLY pained me a lot! The case is that Necropolis has 9 units that I think do well in the line-up, and I do agree that the ones that are most superfluous is the "double" Ghost/Wight manifestation. Problem is how then to distribute units best?
I decided here to let Mummy remain as Neutral in the vein of Heroes 5. I didn't like this approach, to be honest (I think many here know of my disgust of these Neutrals) - but somehow it ended up being the least bad of 3 options:
1a) Merge Ghost and Wight and take in Mummy; place Mummy at low level (level 3) and keep Wight at high level. This option is probably the least good, because: a) Mummy will become a boring level 3 creature; b) Necropolis already has one low-level fodder being the Zombie; and c) I like the options that the Incorporeal Ghosts for Necropolis in early game.
1b) Merge Ghost and Wight and take in Mummy, place Mummy at high level (level 5?) and remove the high-level Wight, instead push Lich up one level. This option is not a bad one, and could deffinitely work. My main gripes would be: a) Wraiths are pretty cool creatures to look at! I will sort of miss them on level 6/7; b) Necropolis will suddenly have 2 casters on level 5/6, which is probably a bit over the top, or alternatively, either Lich or Mummy has no spells, which makes either creature pretty dull.
2) Leaving out Mummies or Black Knights as neutrals. As I think the Black Knight fills a more relevant spot in the Necropolis army (offensive walker), I would leave out Mummy.
I settled for option 2), although I might go for option 1b) also.
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What will happen now?
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted March 09, 2008 06:06 PM |
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Quote:
Good question about why 8 tiers. The simple truth is, that it was convenient: For almost all the factions, there are some "lost" children through the chapters of the series that I could bring back in line with this approach: You've seen already the Pikeman, the Efreet and the Blackknight appearing once again in the line-ups, and the fact was that for practically every faction, there was a certain 8th creature that I think deserved a place in the line-up as much as any. Also, it was something new - we've had 7-tier line-ups in Heroes 3 and then again in Heroes 5, so expanding to 8 tiers would bring a slightly new image to this part of the game.
Yeah. I totally agree, hehe! The tier system today and when you suggest adding an 8th tier. Well it sounds like building a stair up to the goal you see fit. Its like thinking in the hight. Unlike I who think in the broad way, I would have fewer tiers but more creatures on each counting in choice function of course 
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 09, 2008 08:25 PM |
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Wow.. Alc sure is "Crazy"!
Good to see the multi-option upgrade system come in good use. And each unit sound great.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 09, 2008 10:28 PM |
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Ok, Necropolis has had a MAJOR workover based on the feedback I've had this far. Links are still on page 3, but basically everything's been updated. Here's the change-log level for level:
Level 1:
Name changes: None.
Skill changes: Large Shield > Buckler: Only reduces 25 %. Shield Allies > Cover Allies: Same. Hence, a less potent version of the Squire / Sentry abilities.
Level 2:
No changes.
Level 3:
Name changes: None.
Skill changes: Ghost now has Mana Drain instead of Fearful Presence. Spectre now has Taunt instead of Mana Drain.
Level 4:
Name changes: Vampire Prince > Moroi; Vampire King > Strigoi, as per Daystar's suggestion. To learn about Moroi and Strigoi, read here.
Skill changes: None.
Level 5:
Name changes: Lich Accolyte is now simply Lich. Master Lich > Demilich. Dark Lich > Revenant. Royal Lich > Rejuvenator. This to reduce the number of "liches".
Skill changes: None.
Level 6:
Name changes: None.
Skill changes: Wraith and Banshee now has Unholy Aura instead of Fearful Presence. Reaper and Grim Reaper gain Life Shield instead of Unholy Aura.
Level 7:
Name changes: Minor adjustments including a couple of substitution of Knight <-> Lord.
Skill changes: Dread Knight now has Mortal Blow instead of ... I don't recall what it had before!
Level 8:
Name changes: None! If someone can come up with a suitable name to substitute Fear Dragon - I don't see much of a problem with that name, but people seem to dislike it - let me know. Fear Dragon > Horror Dragon, Horror Dragon > Terror Dragon, as per request below.
Skill changes: Ghost Dragon now gains Incorporeal(!) ability. To adjust things, Bone Dragon and Ghost Dragons have the Dragon Longing ability (not that it matters that much, but still). Spectral Dragon gains Purge. Minor adjustments in Fear and Horror Dragon ability constellations I think.
I hope this will accomodate most of the issues reported with this faction in previous posts. If there still are issues, let me know. Thanx for all the feedback!
(Next up: Sylvan I think.)
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What will happen now?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 09, 2008 11:16 PM |
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Edited by Daystar at 23:16, 09 Mar 2008.
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Fear Dragon = Baneful Dragon? Baleful Dragon? Wailing Dragon?
Also, Woot to the Strigoi! I was on the same Wikipage earlier today.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 03:49 AM |
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Fear Dragon = Horror Dragon.
Horror Dragon = Terror Dragon.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted March 10, 2008 03:50 AM |
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woah... i don't mean to offend any other people who made proposals for HoMM6, but i think alci's is just... amazing... 8 levels, yay! 2 actually alternative upgrades with a second upgrade, OMFG! 10 factions, wow! and 400 creatures too! this is just super awesome alci, i really wish that ubi read this. why ubi and not nival? 'cause we never know who ubi is gonna ask to make H6
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 06:00 AM |
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Not like Alc need it.. but I will just see if I can join on some creature creating fun...
Sylvan:
Pixie
> Sprite > Forest Sprite
> Fairy > Magic Dust Fairy (need better name)
Pixie:
* Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation
* Mana Gatheer: Hero regain X magic per day.
Sprite:
* Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation
* Spray Attack
Forest Sprite:
* Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation
* Spray Attack
* Caster
Fairy:
* Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation
* Quicken Dust: For a turn, friendly unit gain +X% more Initative.
Magic Dust Fairy:
* Flyer, No Enemy Retaliation
* Magic Dust: For a turn, target friendly unit gain Flyer and Magic Prof 50%.
* Caster
Elven Warrior
> Blade Dancer > War Dancer
> Blade Singer > War Singer
Blade Dancer:
* Dance of Blade: On defense mode, this unit has 25% chance of dodging melee attacks.
* Blade Dance Combo: (same as War Dance combo)
War Dancer:
* Dance of Elves: On defense mode, this unit has 33% chance of dodging melee attacks.
* Blade Dance Combo: (same as War Dance combo, but all unit around take full damage)
* Dervish Dance: (similar to berserker and chain lighting) Loose control, and attack nearest unit, and one close to it at 50% less damage.
Blade Singer
* Double Attack Combo: This unit has 33% to strike addtional attack, upto 2 attacks.
War Singer:
* Triple Attack Combo: This unit has 33% to strike addtional attack, upto 3 attacks.
* Lone Singer: If there are 2 or more enemy unit close to this unit, than this unit gain +X% more damage and attacks.
Elven Bowsman
> Hunter > Hunt Master
> Archer > Arcan Archer
Bowsman:
* Quick Shot: reduce the initative of next attack.
Hunter
* Double Shot
* Warding Arrow
Hunt Master
* Double Shot
* Warding Arrow
* Hunter's Mark: Place a Hunter's Mark on target enemy. This unit gain +X more damage and attack to that unit for the battle.
Archer:
* Double Shot
* Power Arrow: Chances of doing 25% more damage.
Arcan Archer:
* Double Shot
* Power Arrow: Chances of doing 25% more damage.
* Magic Arrow: This unit's attack does magic damage as well, and damage one additonal enemy unit within 2 space of target enemy at 50% damage.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2008 09:19 AM |
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Two things.
The first one is that making necro a might faction is the most obvious choice, if you look at the classical functioning of necro's army. The only way to see necro as a Magic faction is to alter brutally the role necromancy plays, like they actually did with Heroes V: TotE where necromancy only allows you to keep a constant number of units (which in turn are nothing but meat shields for the spellcasting necromancers) but nothing more than that. However, if one refers to the iconic necro, making them a might faction is almost consequential.
Second: Moroi and Strigoi are supposed to suck youth and health, instead than blood. I don't know if alcibiates would like to show this within the mechanics, or not, but just saying.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 10, 2008 09:51 AM |
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Interesting.
I'm trying to decide whether Mortal Blow and Deadly Strike should switch places, since the former is a pure offensive ability while the latter is more of a "cripple your enemy" ability. Not sure about it though.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 10, 2008 01:16 PM |
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Momo
Notice, that just because I make Necromancer the might hero of Necropolis, this doesn't make Necropolis an overall might faction: Each faction will have two hero classes, one might and one magic. I gather Necropolis will still be overall magic inclined.
Geny
I was thinking about that also. I reckon you are right, that Mortal Blow is in fact more offence oriented, the question is then how to balance things so that they are approximately even for the two branches. This is a minor detail, though.
EDIT > Btw. I will probably change Death Strike so that it only has a chance to trigger depending on relative stacks sizes, so that you cannot abuse several small stacks.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 10, 2008 01:51 PM |
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The way I see it Armoured and Unstopable are more or less equally balanced. Unstopable may be a bit better considering the Charge ability. So, if Death Strike and Mortal Blow will be more or less equal as well it will be fine imo. The thing is, they are very different and hard to compare, Mortal Blow is a simple damage amplifier equally efficient against all foes, while Death Strike's efficiency depends on the target - it's totally useless on low level units and very powerful on high levels, especially blockers like Treants and Fire Dragons. I think that overall they're pretty balanced, but then again I haven't played for ages and may very well be wrong.
P.S. Good call on adding chance to Death Strike, it was a bit imba without it imho.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 10, 2008 02:09 PM |
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Cool. Will look into that this afternoon.
As promissed, I continue with Sylvan. Again, units are presented with upgrades and abilities, but stats are not made. To see unit details, click on the image with the basic name.
ActionJack > I did not get to use any of your suggestions for this, as I had already made this, but I might take inspiration for something, if there are things that need to be changed.
Heroes: Ranger and Healer(?).
Alignment: Good, Chaotic, Conservative.
Portefolios: Life, Freedom, Earth.
Opposed Faction: Necropolis.
Next up, when I've worked over your feedback on this, will be either Dungeon, or I'll go into a bit with the whole alignment / opposed faction thing, and what that means. Anything particular you wanna hear?
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What will happen now?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 10, 2008 08:46 PM |
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There is no general Heroes 6 suggestion topic, as that seems to me to be too wide a topic to have within one thread - that should not refrain you from making one, though, if you feel it is required. You can see a list of Heroes 6 related threads here, and a general official Heroes 6 overview thread here.
And please continue this discussion in Feedback Thread, thank you.
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What will happen now?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 10, 2008 08:56 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 20:58, 10 Mar 2008.
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Healer? ... Remember the Herbalist?
Anyway...
Level 2
Defensive Stance works only until the first time the unit moves?
Anyway, Defensive Stance and Agility is a horrible combo. Immune to Fatigue and Agility on the other hand is perfect. I understand that giving War Combo to Wind Dancer and not to War Dancer is silly, so maybe give the defensive branch DS + Agility (making them hit and run units) and replace the DS of the offensive branch with something else that will make them more of a "stand and fight" and/or "crowd control" unit.
Level 4
Spell Master 2D
Shield - is that an anti-ranged spell?
Level 5
Isn't Swift Strike kinda useless for a faction that usually doesn't use Dark magic (unless you're changing that too)?
Level 6
I think you meant either Life Shield or Anti-Death Shield.
Level 8
Acid Breath: graphic explanation of the attack's pattern please.
Does Prismatic Breath "stack" with Acid Breath, both in terms of pattern and damage(i.e. 50% acid)?
Edit: Ooh, 5 tiers! Even better than Haven!
You always had problems with Sylvan. (again - remember Herbalist?)
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