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| Thread: SAMURAI (repost) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 22, 2001 09:18 PM |
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SAMURAI (repost)
Kuraizen [guest] from Heroes Community
SAMURAI Posted 3-4-2001 04:30
ok, i know that this game is baced mainly on standard fantasy background, broadswords, mages, and such, but there is an entire fantasy world not used yet, THE SAMURAI, the whole orient could be used in this game, and i for one would buy the game in a heart beat if they at least tryed to do something with asia, samurai, ninja, cavalier, spear men,
it may seem like some crazy cook just wanting it put in the game, and thats exactly what i am, a crazy cook saying, if i could have samurai units against your ogres, than we are in buisness ;D
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Pluvious from Heroes Community
More Human Units Posted 3-4-2001 08:06
Well, samurai could potentially work, but there would have to first be more emphasis on human units. I mean, only the castle has any real people in homm3. Maybe some samurai heroes...
But actually I would like to see some more human units. Stuff like assasins, fire archers, legionaires, elephant riders, samurai, phlanx, duelists (rapier-wielders), and many others could certainly add to the game. I think homm3 went about as far into fantasy as it needed to and it should maybe reign it back in just a tad. A couple more human towns would definately add something to the game.
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AncientOne from Heroes Community
Some random thoughts Posted 3-5-2001 01:56
While I agree that there could stand to be a few more human units, I'd argue against making too many of them. While only the Castle is the only one that emphasizes Human units, there are humans in other places: Mages, Rogues, Nomads, Peasants. Many of the lvl 4 and lower units are humanoid, at least. Troglodites, Orcs, Goblins, Elves, Dwarves, etc. If you count undead, that adds a whole new set of humans. These units make the game rather more interesting; if you placed the emphasis on human units, you could get rid of Grand Elves, because Marksmen do almost exactly the same thing. And what's the real difference between Pikemen and Goblins? As it is, the racial variety is what makes the different towns interesting to play.
~O~
What I don't like about humans is that they end up giving diversity through ability, not race. For instance, I suppose you could make Assassins... a unit that had a slight percentage of killing a amount of the unit under attack (kind of like the Genie from HoMM2, or the Mighty Gorgon), but I personally think that the units I mentioned are more interesting visually than yet another human, and they serve the same strategic purpose.
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Pluvious from Heroes Community
Oh really???!!! Posted 3-5-2001 02:52
How about a a human elephant rider stampeding an enemy...an assasin using poision arrows or a dagger...a legionairre having special abilities to withstand direct assault...
And the only other human in the standard game (besides in castle) is the mage, which could be a much more interesting unit also.
These human units help to contrast the very magical and fantasic units nicely. I liked the paldin from homm2 with the two-handed sword. Cool unit. Still need the fantastic, but throw in some historical units too please.
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Pluvious from Heroes Community
continued Posted 3-5-2001 04:27
In continuation of above...the visual I believe comes more in the animation and artist's rendering then the units themselves. A cool swordstroke in an arc or something similiar is very cool if demonstrated correctly.
Unfortunately the castle is a poor example of human units, and are probably the least interesting units in the game because they are so standard. Come on, pikeman? swordsman? cavaliers? Boring. How about paladins and horse archers and eagle riders for humans. Very specific for monsters...several dragon types...not at all specific with humans = changes need to be made.
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Valera from Heroes Community
Castle units Posted 3-5-2001 19:33
I personally see the castle as the most boring castle in the game. Why? All units are good. This is boring. Too balanced! Where's the strategy of some units being good for one thing, some for the other? They also look pretty much the same and special abbilities are good, but not wicked, if you know what I mean. Fortress for example has specials that you really have to use strategically, for example dispell, poison, death stare and all-adjacent-no-retaliation-attack. There's got to be some weaknesses to that town, because no other town has all units that useful.
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kuraizen [guest] from Heroes Community
well what i ment was... Posted 3-6-2001 07:19
maby lossen up on the greek mythos, and let in some orient, i know it wouldn't realy make its own castle, because alot of it would be the same as the human castle in heroes, but there is a mystical side of the orient, such as
ninja: not a flying unit, not neciserily a fast unit, but say first round of combat, you get to select a hex to move it to, like a built in tactition skill for that unit covering the whole map, the unit its self would be weak, but would be able to shortstop range units better, maby no stronger than the thief, but with that ability making it usefull,
assasin: at cost of the unit, chance to kill equil amount of opposing units, so you have 5 assasins, you attack 10 black dragons, the assasin unit is gone make it or not, no resurecting it, but chance to kill 5 black dragons, would make for an interesting fight,
and samurai:2 strikes, no retaliation if an opposing creature was killed by the attack
stuff like that, a whole world of humans under a different culture
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Rage [guest] from Heroes Community
orient has many mythical creatures Posted 3-7-2001 08:45
An mythical orient town would be quite nice as an addition to heroes4 but it does not have to be so much like the castle town(i agree it is slightly boring compared to other towns) with units mainly based upon humans. There are many mythical creatures which stem from the orient such as spirits, yeti, dragons(those wyrmish ones in the new years parades) and probably many more (not hard to do some research) as well as human units which can be the base units (ninja, samarai). But that is totally up to 3do programmers which towns/creatures will be put into the game.
My request, though, is that there be an enourmous leap in the amount of towns/creatures which will be in this game. I've heard that as of now 3do will be adding just 2 more towns into the game and to me this seems insufficient. When i first played heroes3 i marvelled at how many creatures were in H3 and never thought i would be able to master many of the towns and creatures weaknesses and advantages. I would love to experience that same feeling of wonder when encountering a big baddie for the first time and fighting against town which i have only a slight clue what to watch for. There are many ideas for castles which in my opinion are acceptable such as the golem(animated), oceanic, orient, insectoid, desert, and illusion(especially like this one... check it out at the TOH page requests for H4) and many others.
Yes it may be hard to properly balance this many towns but 3do is already reworking the engine which, in my opinion, would be much harder to do if they want to make a new and innovative gameplay style. This task of adding more units/towns(at least twice as many would make me happy) does not seem that hard when compared with that. A little animation (still gonna 2d battles i hear) and maybe some interesting new special abilities and voila.
Anyways maybe i went off on a tangent there, but that's how i feel and if you can find some valid reasons to prove my wishes are overzealous then...
DO IT... DO IT NOW!!
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Rage
Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
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posted April 09, 2001 12:27 PM |
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Here's the thread!
Ahhhhh.. here we go.
Well since most of the town types in H3 were based upon terrain, if H4 were to carry on this idea, what would this town's terrain be?
I propose that the orient town be combined with the water/cove idea since Japan of course is an island and china has a huge coastline. This will make this town very distinct.
eh, maybe not i'll post it anyway to see what peeps think
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L8r
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 09, 2001 07:40 PM |
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Town idea.
Yamato castle:
Samurai -> Zealot (or fanatic).
Bowman -> Composite bowman -> Assassin.
Lesser dragon -> Raptor -> Bahamut.
Shaolin Priest-> Shaolin master.
Flame master -> were dragon -> Dragonmage -> Dragon spirit.
Mage -> Demigod -> Deity -> Sky deity.
Phoenix -> Golden phoenix.
Grail: Dragon statue
Heroes: Might=Shogun Magic=????
For more details go to the Egypt topic.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2001 09:10 AM |
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I like a oriental town.
Mystery, I got to say that Yamato means "The Great Japanese..." which has nothing to do with Shaolin monks, phoenix etc which have a Chinese origin.
Actually, there are many many more fantastic creatures in ancient Chinese mythology. With my limited English, I can't have a good description of them. But trust me, Chinese mythology is as diversed and as interesting as Greek or Roman or any great cultures (like Vikings....) in the world.
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kuraizen
Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
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posted April 10, 2001 09:31 AM |
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my defence,
alright, first of all, bhuddism was given to japanese as a gift from china, so haveing a bhudda statue for the grail is possible, but correct that being yamamoto, it should be a shinto statue, but still, the shinto god of wisdom would have the same effect,
also having shinto priests instead of shoulin priests, the shinto priests use the prayer stick for their energy ball, but these are also the priests who studied the death blow and other EXTREEM martial arts, so i see thier hand to hand as being just as great,
instead of the pheonix they should have the elongated dragon, since golden is taken, i would say call it 'eternal' or 'heavenly' dragon,
the terain could be "archiopalio" (sorry for mispell)
guru might not be the best name, shugenja might be better,
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 10, 2001 09:49 AM |
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"Oriental" Town
Sorry, Mystery, I write my previous post before looking at your post in Egypt thread.
Well, IMHO, if we are talking about "Oriental" town, we should not be too strict about the division between Chinese and Japanese as this is a quite "modern" concept.
To my limited knowledge (if I am wrong, correct me), Japanese derived a considerable part of their culture from ancient Chinese, though they do make a lot of changes and sometimes people are fascinated by some Japanese stuff but forget about the origin of it.
If for an oriental town, we can mix things up:
e.g. creatures can include :-
Ninja: can teleport, weak in att/def but can do double damage sometimes (like dread knight)
Samura
Mongolian Horsearcher: can move and shoot. ( don't forget that these guys nearly conquer nearly half of Europe )
Great Turtle/ancient turtle/giant turtle..: slow but extremely durable, (dragon, phoenix, white tiger and great turtle are guardian of East, North, West, South according to ancient Chinese mythology)
Kirin (an ancient Chinese mystical beast, dragon-like head, body as lion, covered with scale and very colorful ): cast expert bless at beginning of battle, medium speed, good att/def.
There are still a lot but I can't remember right now.
Opinions pls.
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 10, 2001 06:54 PM |
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ok...
What does Yamamoto mean, exactly, I know "yama" means a mountain, but what does moto mean?
Town idea.
Yamato castle:
Samurai -> Zealot (or fanatic).
White tiger -> Guardian.
Lesser dragon -> Raptor -> Bahamut.
Shaolin Priest-> Shaolin master.
Flame master -> Were dragon -> Dragonmage -> Dragon spirit.
Mage -> Demigod -> Deity -> Sky deity.
Phoenix -> Golden phoenix.
Grail: Dragon statue
Heroes: Might=Shogun Magic=Philosof (or Druid  )
Shaolin should be changed to something Japanese (There is no 'L' in Japanese and also no 'SH' and all sounds should go like 'ka','si',tzu','ne','ho','ma','ri', and the only letter which is just a sound is 'N').
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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kuraizen
Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
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posted April 14, 2001 07:36 AM |
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yamamoto was mispell of yamato, sorry, it was late
um... i still say shinto instead of shoulin, the original traditions of japan was the shinto religeon, and up to ww2 it still was, i don't see how we can name a town yamato and disgrace japanese history by putting in chinese culture, remember, japan is a proud nation, death before dishonor, i don't see why we need mongolian archers, the samurai studies all forms of weaponry, -including- bows,
Samurai -> Zealot (or fanatic).
White tiger -> TigerSpirit.
Lesser dragon -> Raptor -> Bahamut.
Shinto novice -> Shinto priest -> Ancient.
Flame master -> Were dragon -> Dragonmage -> Dragon spirit.
Mage -> Demigod -> Deity -> Sky deity.
Ancestor -> Guardian -> Amatarasu
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2001 07:48 AM |
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SUMO characters
what about SUMO characters?
i know this is only a sport, they are not real-fighters - but... just an idea
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 14, 2001 12:35 PM |
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Nah...
R U CRAZY? Sumo wrestlers, what, are they going to be 3x3 hexes wide? And how will they attack?
Nah...... Thats not so good.
Samurai -> Zealot (or fanatic).
White tiger -> Guardian.
Lesser dragon -> Raptor -> Bahamut.
Shinto novice -> Shinto priest -> Ancient.
Flame master -> Were dragon -> Dragonmage -> Dragon spirit.
Mage -> Demigod -> Deity -> Sky deity.
Dragon ancestor -> Dragon king -> ?????
This town is for all of these who want more dragons.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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kuraizen
Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
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posted April 15, 2001 09:44 PM |
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no no no, no more dragons...
i think there should be a non - dragon top creature in the yamato town, (see previous post for my suggestion) there are enough dragons, red / black, green / gold, bone / ghost, rust to name a few....
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 15, 2001 09:53 PM |
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OK.
If it won't be a dragon, we need to think of something, but the guardian should be the evolution of the white tiger. Maybe lvl 7 could be a giant turtle.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 31, 2001 07:45 PM |
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Ghehe
You guys forget about the KAPPA! This is an monkey wearing a shield of an turtle.
Kind of stupid but it is an japanese monster.
The White tiger is coool!
That guardian white tiger has two heads just to let you know. And the Stryfs on its body are collored Silver.
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2001 07:59 PM |
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old topics back here
I've rememmber Godzilla...
Godzilla for sure can beat up the Azure Dragon, and the game as a whole too...
Pikachu... pokemons - 1st level creatures?
What about Zelda as hero?
ok... i'm going to catch the chu-chu rocket...
mhmm... japanese and scandinavian fantasy don't mixup -
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted May 31, 2001 11:23 PM |
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Excuse me but....
I haven't read this whole post so I may be not so knowledgable in some areas. This "oriental town" seems like a good idea, but there is one thing I don't really like about it. There is already one real human town in the game, and I think that if we add another one the game woudl loose its fantasy atmosphere.
I think that it said something like this in the first posting of the first thread, and I agree with that. One of the reasons I buy this game is for the fantasy atmosphere. Some people may not agree with me, but, hey, that's fine.
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-LadyLily
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hsanders
Known Hero
Tolkiens protecter
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posted June 01, 2001 01:54 AM |
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Agree, not about the town because I have only read the last message...
A big factor that I buy this game is that it has a fantasy atmosphere...The game-play is wery well but it would't be the same without the fantasy world...
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Mojo
Hired Hero
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posted June 01, 2001 03:26 AM |
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KICK A$$
I think the oriental town would kick a$$, but the Bahumut MUST be a higher lvl creature!! You don't know how strong those things are! I also disagree with the game losing it's fantasy, where today will you find spearmen, bowmen, spirits, bahumuts, and dragons? It's all fantasy, just more human like....
Just my opinions....
Mojo
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted June 01, 2001 03:31 AM |
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It's just that when you think of a fantasy game, you don't usually think of any creature that is "oriental". I usually think of knights, dragons, ghosts....stuff like that.
And, I saw an idea for a seven level of some sort of deity (I haev bad memory). A deity? Woudn't a deity have super powers and kill all the other seven level creatures? It would make the game more real but....a deity just doesn't fit.
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-LadyLily
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 01, 2001 05:26 AM |
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Japanese town
Heh godzlilla town (purely JAPANESE) + these are not humans
some pretty names (found them on a site)
http://matrixcollectibles.site.yahoo.net/kaju.html
Godzilla, Mothra, Ghidorah, Gigen, Angilas, Fire Rodan,
Ogra - heh - 7even!
and, look at the site - some of them look like siamese AZURE DRAGONS
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Rage
Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
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posted June 01, 2001 07:46 PM |
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Not Fantasy?
Hey Ladylily, you say fantasy reminds you of knights, dragons, and ghosts and that oriental mythology ain't fantasy?
It's funny cuz each of those creatures you mentioned are in oriental myths.
Also AD&D has published many books on oriental adventures and mythology.
Also who says this town needs human units. U could make gremlins their base unit and use the many other creatures from orient myth that people have suggested as higher levels.
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L8r
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