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| Thread: The Empire of the World IV, in test |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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songfx
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 01, 2012 05:55 PM |
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Quote:
Salamandre
Now YOU were rude.
OK, I got the point that people like to brag about unfinished works here.
Whatever.
I spend too much time on Civfanatics, where the first thing people do - is upload a beta for others to try.
Even if FAR from ready.
So I was expecting the same here.
And forgot that it's the WRONG site to expect lots of FINISHED works...
Anyways, thanks for the links.
I might try them.
Good luck and let there be peace. 
Complaint is always easy than help.
A taker can not understand a giver.
It is not obligation to serve others.
Salamandre is sharing his effort.
So pls don't share your assault any more.
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Chinese WOG Forum
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 01, 2012 06:02 PM |
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Aleee, not sure about the necessary "whoa". Lurkers comments are sometimes significant and lead to better changes before release. Take for example Atlantis, when I advertised it, Warmonger told city graphics are terrible. And it turned out he was right, I redid the external view from scratch after reading the comment. When we work on something, we get used to imperfections, more the days pass by. So I prefer a frank critic before it is out.
It turns that map balance is very hard to polish, I restarted 30+ times with different algorithms and still not happy. I must find a way to prevent the player remaining in his little corner and fight for every creature banks then get out when everything is unlocked. I must create expansion dependence, but not sure how yet.
One idea is to make the banks stronger with each visit so at some point you NEED to go in new area, because nothing is doable anymore in the previous. But then the spells cost is already high, and starting with new creatures banks giving base reward while a spell purchase costs already 4000 sulphur is a game stop.
And I can not use time limit, the longer possible is 12 months, and map takes 36 at least.
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Aleee
Known Hero
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posted January 01, 2012 06:13 PM |
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Salamandre, you must understand that there is no way we can help you with balance issues unless we have something to launch. It means there was another reason for posting this information. And I still believe in what I told you in my previous post.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted January 01, 2012 06:14 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 18:15, 01 Jan 2012.
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@somebody613 - welcome to the community. I am very sorry that you have had negative experiences waiting for projects to finish at CivFanatics, though to be honest I think you would probably accomplish more on amending that sort of problem by complaining to the CivFanatics community about it instead of us.
There's no doubt that there have historically been a considerable number of half-finished or never-finished projects in the WoG forum in the past, but luckily the community members are not fools and have developed a pretty formidable sense of realism when it comes to telling what is likely to get done and what will never see daylight. There was certainly a long transitional period some years ago where we had little but fanciful yet useless ideas being posted here, but thankfully it's practically over by now, and lots of great playable stuff is being released.
Frankly, you chose the wrong thread to bring forth this complaint, because (unlike most others!) when Salamandre announces a project it almost invariably gets released very quickly, no matter how ambitious.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 01, 2012 06:33 PM |
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Quote:
Salamandre, which ERA version will be required to play this map? And will it have time loss condition?
ERA 1.91 or more, if Bersy finishes his new project about MODS folder. Also requires patched executable, for having XXL feature. It is not a mod, just a map, all the (very few) new objects will be added via objector to your zeobjts.txt, no txt files are modified so it will NOT affect other maps or mods played in same folder. To sum it, does not require a backup of your Heroes folder.
No time condition, as I said. The maximum possible one is 12 months, and here by the 12th month you will be 30% done. Therefore there are other internal time conditions, as releasing strong invaders which require at some precise moment having one achievement or another done, so you can't hang.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted January 01, 2012 06:38 PM |
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Powerful invaders may be troublesome if they spawn AFTER you've been playing too slowly. It's always better to give a player some warning in advance, and I mean a month or more here if you want the player to actually accomplish something.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 01, 2012 06:48 PM |
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They have progressive movement (start at 30%), so they can not stop you but create havoc by taking cities. It is similar to Thunk from Fnord/Corribus maps, or Chaser (chinese). When they are out, you must find the way to defeat them, and you have time. The story gives some hints about them months in advance. Hopefully time is not missing here.
The real problem is AI behavior. It plays strange, parking in cities and not moving. In such map sizes we have to limit AI behavior to minimum.
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somebody613
Hired Hero
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posted January 01, 2012 08:10 PM |
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Salamandre
SORRY, OK?!?
I'm not very often coming here, so I might be a bit unfamiliar with how things usually happen here.
And, yes, there are and were quite a few unfinished projects (maps/campaigns/etc) here, so I am justified to react this way IN GENERAL.
My mistake was that I complained about your project specifically (and I also AGREE, that you're one of the most active members here, I've seen enough for that).
So let's just bury the hatchet of war and smoke the pipe of peace.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 02, 2012 09:36 AM |
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Quote:
there is no way we can help you with balance issues unless we have something to launch.
Ah? I see years of advertising in russian forums without nothing to launch, but people still discussing balances and features.
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Aleee
Known Hero
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posted January 02, 2012 10:17 AM |
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Features can be and should be discussed. Especially if they go along with numbers. Balance is what you need to feel, usually by playing the map/mod.
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somebody613
Hired Hero
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posted January 02, 2012 03:51 PM |
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Quote:
Features can be and should be discussed. Especially if they go along with numbers. Balance is what you need to feel, usually by playing the map/mod.
Exactly my point.
Play-testing IS the thing I'm talking about.
Also, the reason why people usually give their projects to others for testing, is cause others might stumble upon a mistake/bug/etc that the author would subconsciously (or feature-knowingly) miss.
Which in HOMM (and especially WOG) is quite a problem.
AND also, the game "pleasure" is felt better by people that didn't MAKE that particular map.
So, enjoyability of a project can only be defined by others anyways.
That is, if you are making something for OTHERS to enjoy.
Good luck!
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 03, 2012 03:47 AM |
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Quote:
...
No time condition, as I said. The maximum possible one is 12 months, and here by the 12th month you will be 30% done.
Unless there is some problem which I am not aware of with the Timer trigger after 12 months, it seems a simple script could be used to end the game at some specified time, using the UN:Q command (see below). (One would need to hack the day count as suggested elsewhere by Bersy to test this conveniently.) The same script could be used to issue warnings periodically, e.g., "You have 56 days left to achieve victory before the game ends." If there is a problem with the Timer command at long times, then I would suspect there would be other problems as well.
UN:Q#;
Q$1/$2; Win or lose the game for CURRENT player.
# = 0 to lose the game
# = 1 to win
Great looking map, as usual. Making it so it will play without needing a special Heroes folder is a nice touch.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 03, 2012 04:07 AM |
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UN:Q makes rank cheater in victory screen, and is frustrating for causal player. Spend 24 months then get a cheater rank, a no way.
But eventually I found several solutions to make the game less interesting after 24th month. Seeing that mithril is the key for acquiring strength, I simply added the reversed script for it, so mithril rewards increase by 1 every month until 12, then decrease by 1 every additional month, becoming null at 24. I am still thinking on disabling progressively the creature banks or the towns as a result of a devastating war, and this will require a change in the plot.
After several tests it came up I have to limit certain spells power as resurrect to 600 and hypnotize to 400, or the game becomes a cake walk.
The most useful spell so far is Bless, getting a +5% damage increase by turn is a game breaker if combined with strong resurrect, so I will limit the second. In long battles, my devils ended with 300 damage and no one could stand against.
I am using the first time a empty script map and F12 to refresh scripts from main script99.erm and it is so handy. Change them in real time, thanks ERA.
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 03, 2012 05:56 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 06:01, 03 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
UN:Q makes rank cheater in victory screen, and is frustrating for causal player. Spend 24 months then get a cheater rank, a no way.
I didn't realize that happens with UN:Q - I know it happens with the battle win BU:V (tested), as in the Sorceress battle in TDS, so I fixed it there by hacking the cheater code:
!!UN:C6919480/4/?v1; JHV--eliminate Cheater Flag due to BU:V if 20-round draw chosen
!!VRv1:+128668;
!!UN&v301=0/v7=0:Cv1/4/0;
I don't recall if that works for both WoG 3.58f and Era - I think so, but if not an Era address could be found.
Speaking of rank and hacking, I don't expect a player will get a very high rank after 24 months, so perhaps that should be adjusted as well, if you want players to be satisfied with their scores. Maybe divide the elapsed time by two or three?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 03, 2012 06:00 AM |
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That may be then, I just tested and UN:Q does not affect. I recall getting every time cheater rank in "300" after ending game with UN:Q but now I know it was because battles in trainers using BU:V. Thanks.
In general I don't like much time limits. What are they for? Balance. We have WoG so must find a way to get it right if player hangs. For example in this map, after AI creatures gather monthly +10% stats, until month 12, then 20% until 18, then 50%. I am not there yet, so I don't know how hard will be, but it is already based on the idea of constant expansion, not keep area for ever.
Good idea about time hacking. Will divide time spent by 3 when grail is build (victory).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 05, 2012 01:13 AM |
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A bit of improved Armageddon, still not so powerful as in TDS/doctor, but I am only month 11, so the competition is open:
Modified the bonuses to unlock, making them dependent one of other. Air (HP %100) is unlocked after 50 spells upgrades, Water (travel at no cost) after 120, Earth (spoil of war) after 180 and casting twice (fire) after 250, which I was able to get early month 11. Before they all cost 50 upgrades each, in no particular order. Resurrect was capped at 500 power, the only way to get past is to visit earth/cosmos nodes each month (+10), so should go until 800 or so till the end. Which means 110-130 devils per cast. Right now an attack from any level 7 stack of <>100 creatures kills 100 devils, and their stats keep growing.
The fun is to play with battlefield obstacles and try to get hit only 1-2 max.
Creature banks growth was modified from 100% to 50% and their spawn delay passed from 10 days to 14. Mainly because now testing with other specialties than logistic and I realize there is a lot to walk between.
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popabogdan1
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 09:04 AM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 11:34, 11 Jan 2012.
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Nice! I want to play this game so much
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted January 05, 2012 04:56 PM |
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Me too
Quote:
Nice! I want to play this game so much
Me too!I played your maps,Salamandre,such as 300,Time of profecy,The empire...III and Stargate,so I know this will be very interesting one to play!
I hope in short time testing to be over so I and the other players that enjoyed your other maps to experience your new map!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 05, 2012 05:07 PM |
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Some battles take up to one hour, adventure map every turn <> half hour, with 8 high level heroes running around. So it will take a lot of time, specially now that holidays are over. The good part is that everything works without a single crash or bugs. AI has its own spell system, we have our. I am month 13 now and it starts to go much faster because I got Armageddon month 12, so creature banks vanish instantly.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted January 06, 2012 07:21 PM |
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?
Quote:
Train your creatures to ACE, as experience can not be gained from battle:
Every week, all AI creatures will be granted with a random hatred ability vs one of your creatures. It will be reseted every week, to make sure all battles are winnable. AI creatures receive a monthly bonus in all stats, longer the game, stronger they are.
A question-will the creatures in your map be with random abilities like in TDS,such as no retaliation,two strikes,immunities and so on?Or maybe as an option if the player wants them to be and if not...
And will be there second henchman?
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