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| Thread: Random M-sized maps - are they good enuff for TOH ?!? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 09:00 PM |
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>>>>>>> Random M vs. Fixed M Theory <<<<<<<<<<<
First of all I am gonna try and keep an objective outlook here:
I have to say that I agree with Motor to a point. Since random maps are random there is that chance that you and your opponent will be placed within 3 days travel of each other. On FIXED medium they are all made with the TOWNS in opposite corners of map so there for there is atleast 1 full week of travel to get to your opponent or if its a closed map there are heavy guards. The reason random small maps were banned was because people were playing 3-5 day games and reporting to gain 30 points. They were abusing it. Same goes for random medium, even though most people may be trying to play legitimate games, there is an equal number of players that are abusing it for the quick easy points.
Now as my good buddy Titan888 has brought up what if you are a player that enjoys playing Random Medium maps and you have fun doing it. Then I say. By all means play them for FUN! Noone is stoping you from playing 300 + random medium games for all the fun you can handle. What is being proposed here is not counting them on the ladder ranking system.
The Ladder ranking system is there to gauge the talent and skill of players as well as document there history of games played and there countless hours of time invested. I personally wouldnt be playing this game at all if my efforts were not being kept somewhere.
Now on to the Random vs. Fixed map!!!
I have been in TOH for 5 seasons now. For the first 3 season. I played ONLY fixed maps. And there was only about 10 maps total that people would really play in general. Sure more maps came and went but still people would only play those same 10 maps etc. Reason for this is the knew the maps. I was just as guilty of playing the same group of maps. But the last season and a half I have been playing RANDOM XL's for the main reason that EVERY toh FIXED map plays the same. Rush and attack week 3. BFH= fight week3, Giantwar = fight week3 BOB = Fight week 3 Hourglass3 = fight week 3. I even asked Andi when the last time he played a FIxed map that seen week 5 he laughed and said never. hehe
I have to say the MOST frustrating thing I have heard lately is people claiming how good they are or have become! Players like Flamingo, Antal etc... are by far great players when it comes to FIXED maps that they have memorized! But does that mean they got pure talent and skill in the game? Well yes and no. Yes they got great skill when they got the maps memorized! but when it comes to playing a BLIND map ( such as Random) they would not be near as powerful since they dont have the comfort of knowing where everything is and having everything memorized.
Just recently AndiAngelSlayer and I had a great debate on this issue, and Andi made the comment that Motor has become a powerhouse strong player! But his talent and skill grew as he learned the Fixed maps and studied them for the best strategy for that map. Just using you as an Example Motor, no offense intended! You are a great buddy also.
Andi also mentioned why a few reasons why Motor hates randoms. main reason they can be to unbalancing. Which got me to thinking. In a game I played with Motor on GiantWar ( fixed map) Motor rushed to middle stole 2 utopias then came to my side to attack me week3 day4. Now keep in mind Motor has 2 Utopias worth of month and Relics and I have NONE. So I ask the Ultimate question! How is it OKAY for a player to make a game unbalanced buy taking 2 Utopias imn a week3 rush fixed map setting but it is NOT okay for a player to FIND 2 Utopias on a Random map and you find none? The end result is the same. But for some reason all Fixed map players think it is justified to have an UNBALANCED game becasue they were faster to get to them. lol. Sounds Hypocritacal to me.
TOH has NO rules. And will never enforce any rules. TOH could say " No playing Random medium maps" and you know what would happen. People would still play them and just report them under XL on the maps section. How aree you gonna stop them?
Bottom line, I personally HATE any map no matter what it is that you meet and fight early. So That is the reason I would vote Random mediums off. Heck for that matter if it was up to me I would say that all toh FIXED MEdium maps need to be trashed and only FIxed Large or Xlarge be made and played 
Jinxer
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lecky333
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 19, 2002 09:21 PM |
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I have come to despise random maps of all sizes, I still play them cuz i love the unpredictablity that is so common in toh. However, I don't think banning random mediums is a good idea, they maybe ( they are imo) crap maps, but that just means that players should decide not to play them, and those who do play randoms... fine doesn't bother me.
Officially banning maps and strategies through toh is bad policy imo, but banning maps and strategies through player-to-player methods is helpful to the players 
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"This is the best of all possible worlds."
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sos
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 09:57 PM |
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I have enjoyed some medium randoms. Sometimes you meet early, sometimes not, but this happens with any random, even XL. Of course, the chances for early meet are bigger on medium and it may take some restarts to get going, that's why some random players don't like them. If you compare the average game time on random (including restarts) to that on a fixed map of the same size it's 2-3 times longer. So I don't see any logic banning medium maps based on the motor's arguments.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 10:10 PM |
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i dont like the arguments of some peeps that say schaaf posted that coz he worries about his points, what sense makes that. objective discussions would give us all more i guess...dont you think?
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:08 PM |
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Iīm sure you donīt like them, Andi. But that wonīt keep people from writing them. Itīs funny how you two, who so often emphasize your "playing the game for fun and for fun only", keep on making rules, so-called "honor" codes and (now for the 2nd time at least) starting threads that seem to serve only one purpose: Your own advantage, point-wise.
"Objective discussions"?? LOL, discussions are never objective (if they were, they were not discussions anymore). Like asking for intelligent Dar_Kraven posts.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:28 PM |
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to your information therin, i play no rules if opponent wants to...clan finals for example all were no rules, i can play that too you know? whats wrong with making them with friends, we beyond the stage of enying implo hitnruns and dd around, sorry
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:34 PM |
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This looked like a good topic, but I couldnt be bothered reading Bjorns and Jinxers novels! sorry
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Myctteakyshd
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted July 19, 2002 11:38 PM |
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I agree with Andi this message board should be used for objective discussions and freindly debates. Thats why i tryed to keep my post objective and look at it from boths sides.
Even though I dont agree with Motors Hate for Randoms
I do agree that Random Medium maps should not be allowwed for tournament play. RightforachangeSchaaf hehe
Jinxer
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted July 19, 2002 11:48 PM |
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@ Rychen --
I guess my post was kinda lengthy wasnt it? =) hehe. Guess I got on a role and got carried away lol.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:53 PM |
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If my favourite choice were Stronghold and Barbarian as main, I would be "beyond" that "stage", too  .
Jinxer, whatīs an objective discussion? Discussions are not possible without opinions, and opinions are always subjective. And isnīt it funny that the same person who always used to reply to opposing arguments by calling them "lame" and "dishonorable" now expresses his desire for "objective discussions"? (Not you, Jinxer, someone else.)
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2002 11:58 PM |
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every good player tries to get a good main lews, that has nothing to do with it...everyone can use stuff like dd, it doesnt even need power, and every hero can get power and know through relics...
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:05 AM |
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No town has smaller chances to get those spells than Stronghold, and no heroes have fewer SP/KN gain than Barbarians. You mentioned only DD, but for spells like Armageddon and Implosion (look at your above post that I responded to), I can assure you that SP is quite useful as well. If rules are made to restrict use of magic, of course they always favour the player who uses Stronghold/Fortress + might hero.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:11 AM |
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who told you i always play stronghold? 90% of my games are random towns, and if i pick i pick all towns, even tower from time to time for a change...you assume stuff you just dont really know...thats why its tossing.
every good heroes player likes might heroes more, ask em, thats a fact.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:29 AM |
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If I ask some good players like Frank, Salamandre and myself, I think we will answer that we like magic heroes. Anyway, most good players make the choice between might and magic hero as main DURING the game. Being too strongly biased towards one of these two shouldnīt work well, unless you make rules to limit the otherīs possibilities.
By the way, if magic heroes are so weak anyway, why are you so passionately supporting rules to make them even weaker? One should think that with your opinion on this subject, you would advocate for the banning of Recanterīs Cloak and Inhibition Orb.
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Troelsen
Hired Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:48 AM |
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LOL
Antal and Flamingo only good players casue they knows maps???? LOL this is so snowing funny even if u played 1000 games on same map Jinxer, u wouldnt win more then 2 of 10 vrs them
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:49 AM |
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maybe coz they like to badn shakles and recanter on their maps lol...than i would pick soly too, lets also ban anti chain and pick castle or dungeon, that rocks! enuf of that tossing...hit and running with magic mains, grow up is all i say
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 12:55 AM |
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Quote:
...hit and running with magic mains, grow up is all i say
So thatīs what you meant when you asked for "objective discussions?"
So nach dem Motto:"Mit uns kann man reden, solange man den Mund hält."
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 01:01 AM |
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yeah its like what you talk about me, but its right lets stop it here lol
troel: flam wasnt that scary
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 01:11 AM |
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i agree with troel thou, map learning has nothing to do with it, most maps you have to deal with different situations each game...your heroes, your army, your town, your artis...a good player doesnt have a disadvantage coz he doesnt know map too well, he looks at it and sees what the basic plan is, that simple
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2002 01:58 AM |
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a good player plays Hero/town random - town and hero pick is for chickens and dar_kravens.
but for the "toh lets u play wat u want " comments - if i would like s maps i could not play them - right ? and in TOT random finals random m is forbidden to play - i guess there are reasons why
@lews: u should better play someone before u judge his skills. andi is a great and skillfull homm3 player - his skills are overall and not fixed on a map or a single town.if people told u that he picks town - they suck .
Motorschaaf
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