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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 22, 2013 07:21 PM |
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Having played DotA a lot and League a little, there are some thing that are just better done in League. I like how it doesn't have denies, and the towers tell you when they're starting to target you. That said, for me, DotA is just more fun. The hero designs are better, the abilities are more explosive, barracks don't come back after being destroyed, kills count for a lot more, etc.
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Eccentric Opinion
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 23, 2013 08:20 AM |
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Azagal said:
This is odd you don't strike me as a troll yet you seem to only want to incite conflict with your comment.
My intention was not to make lol fans angry, i was just curious. And yes I've been playing moba since 4ever (dota, hon and now dota2) and I'm pretty good, I have a good capacity to judge game mechanics and was just curious about why casual >>>> competitive.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted October 23, 2013 10:43 AM |
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That's a rather snobbish thing to say.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted October 23, 2013 12:51 PM |
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Just because LoL is more noob friendly with its design/interface and mechanics, doesn't mean that it's a nooby game. 
The game addresses the needs of both casual, and competitive players, or at least it strives to do so. (rather successfully imho)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 23, 2013 02:12 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 14:21, 23 Oct 2013.
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@Doom
Thanks for the QP <3. Now all I need to do is to find out how to rate threads mwuahahahaha.
mvassilev said:
The hero designs are better, the abilities are more explosive, barracks don't come back after being destroyed, kills count for a lot more, etc.
Careful with the word "better".
DotA and League while the same genre of game, are not even slightly comparable when it comes to Hero/Champion balance. Any hero you'd just import from DotA to League would be massively overpowered, while a Champion imported into DotA would be negligible powerwise and would most likely have a very hard time functioning as a Hero at all therefor it makes no sense to compare them directly to one another.
If one were to look at purely the design aspect of the Hero's the word "better" quickly becomes questionable, since DotA Heroes are one dimensional specifically when it comes to who has the power. The player is usually given some very strong, visibly game affecting tools in form of the Hero he choses but like I said before this comes at the expense of the people he plays against. Does that make for good game design?
DotA Heroe design has not passed the trials of time, simply because it didn't need to. There is no need for it to be mordern since it's such an old game and it's fanbase has stuck around ever since.
DotA is a game born in 2003 and started on it's path on success when late 2004 Guinsoo made DotA Allstars (a "best of" of sorts from all the other DotA variants flying around at the time) Neichus and Icefrog would eventually join him and together ensure that their DotA was the DotA everyone was playing. Mind you they weren't game designers, neither were the people that made many of the Heroes we have in DotA today and they made those champs almost 10 years ago. They all work within DotA as it is today, which is good of course but whether they're "better" designed is questionable.
Now that DotA for the first time in its history has to compete for players in an evolved market the aged design shows in how hard it is for newcomers that aren't really dedicated to overcoming the steep learning curve to get a foothold in the game.
Also to truely understand how important/impactful kills are (in any game) one would need to do play more than "a little". Those are differences that only truly become discernible at a certain level of play. I assure you that kills are extremely impactful and game changing in League of Legends, not least of all because there is no buy back.
watcher83 said:
My intention was not to make lol fans angry, i was just curious.
You haven't made anyone angry, me least of all. You must understand though that it is hard to understand that you would want a civilized discussion when you claim something has poor quality without any explanation (or in the very least an absurdly flimsy one if your "I rekt in one game, yo" example was supposed to validate anything you said).
I'm actually interested in any point you'd actually bother formulating because I'm curious to understand why you feel the way you do. It is a sentiment shared by a huge part of the DotA community and they adhere to it with such rigid vehemence I find it fascinating.
watcher83 said:
I have a good capacity to judge game mechanics and was just curious about why casual >>>> competitive.
See you "having a good capacity to judge game mechanics" is not a lot for me to go on, if you don't actually bother explaining the difference between the mechanics in question. I'd appreciate it if you'd care to elaborate.
Similarly how does better accessibility (casual) prevent a game from being highly competitive? High level League is every bit as competitive as its DotA counterpart. Why wouldn't it be? There is nothing in the better early accessibility of the game that in any shape of form inhibits the competitive evolution of the game.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2013 05:49 PM |
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I mean design as in what the heroes look like. All of the DotA heroes and abilities just look more interesting.
And it's fun for both players. You just have to play more conservatively and not get hit.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 23, 2013 11:06 PM |
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Don't know about you but I really don't have fun being doomed for 13 seconds, being in a do or die situation vs bloodseeker or getting nuked for 1200hp by tinker. Just to name a few.
It isn't fun for both players. The moment you are the target of abilities that take freedom of meaningful choices away from you, before you even had the opportunity to prevent that you are not having fun because what is happening to you is outside of your freedom to controle. So unless you enjoy getting dominated there isn't much enjoyment to be had from that predicament.
No amount of "conservative play" is going to help you when the only thing that retains you your ability to act meaningfully is to never walk into range (which gets countered by stuff like blink dagger, force staff, etc).
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2013 11:18 PM |
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That's what teamfights are for. But to each their own.
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Eccentric Opinion
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 25, 2013 07:11 AM |
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Azagal said:
Don't know about you but I really don't have fun being doomed for 13 seconds, being in a do or die situation vs bloodseeker or getting nuked for 1200hp by tinker.
1. Doom is a radiance carry with great farming potential and played to lock a difficult opponent hero during team battles (e.g. storm spirit), ofc during the early phase of the game u can get kills on supports or suicides with its ultimate, this gives him an all needed lane presence. Until now I talked about strengths, regarding his weakness - on equal farm with another carry he tends to lose ( not very strong late, better used on timed push strategies) and he starts with 0 armor!! which basically means he melts to -armor strats or if enemy team has a decently farmed Slardar.
2.Tinker is a glass cannon with good split pushing and antipush. If enemy team has good jump in your face heroes, he melts. ( e.g. storm naix bomb or puck naix bomb)
P.S. - Bloodseeker is the worst hero ever ( been played like 5 times in 8 years/ thousands of competitive matches) so your point doesn't say much. Sure beginners like to play him mid but the truth is that if u pick a decent mid against him and know how to play he loses every time, gets underleveled and is worthless, because if he doesn't snowball he can't do anything for his team.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 25, 2013 12:01 PM |
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I was using those as examples for the one-way-street hero interaction in DotA, wasn't making a statement about the actual gameplay, I haven't played dota in quite some time so I wouldn't dare.
But since you're still around watcher, you have nothing to say about I posted previously?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted October 25, 2013 12:28 PM |
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I could but it would need be such a long post. 
My opinion doesn't matter anyway, lol is the most popular moba by far so i guess majority rules. I'm not just a fanboy of one moba game, I tried them all and stuck with what I consider better. to explain why the mechanics of hon\dota are better suited for competitve play I would have to go into details about map, items, ability, experience gain, hero potential, items etc and I do not feel like writing a two page reply.
Anyway I've been playing these type of games for like 5 years now and do not worry, I know what there is to know about them. I do not play LoL, it's true but I studied the games and watched plenty tournament streams on twitch so I'd say I know what i'm talking about, but as I said above everyone plays what they prefer and it's normal like that; I'm not a rager fanboy who trashes one game in favour of another. It's just my personal\subjective amazement that LoL is above the rest on people playing and viewers on stream.
with that being said "I rest my case"
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted October 30, 2013 10:53 AM |
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Played them all, dota, dota2, LOL & HON, but the only one i really sticked to was HON.
None of them were bad in my opinion, but HON is a faster game in my opinion. And some people might not like the fact of denying towers and creeps, nothing gives more satisfaction then blowing 400 gold per player away by denying a tower while the whole enemy team was slashing it.The only thing i hate about HON is the community.
I played LOL in the past 2. But what bugs me most is that when you spend a lot of money it has influence on the strength of your heroes (talent trees). So basicly, people who spend more money will always have an advantage there. Rather lame.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted October 30, 2013 11:52 AM |
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Spend more money?! What on earth do you mean?
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted October 30, 2013 01:38 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:39, 30 Oct 2013.
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Not much of a case to rest when you haven't made a case for anything yet. But oh well if you don't feel like making a point, I won't stop you.
Marksmen care to elaborate? The only things you can buy with money are champions, skins, XP/IP boosts and runepages. Money spent has no direct or indirect correlation to the power of your masteries. If anything it helps you get 30 mastery points faster, but that doesn't give you an edge since you get matched against people of an equivalent level.
Someone who has spent a 1000$ on the game has no ingame advantages over anyone who's spent nothing.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted October 30, 2013 01:44 PM |
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EXCEPT HE GETS ALL THE COOL SKINS. LIKE CORPORATE MUNDO.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted October 30, 2013 08:08 PM |
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Edited by veco at 20:09, 30 Oct 2013.
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So my friends got tired of yolo q and started playing 3v3 (I hate the map but meh, need to get him gold for the rewards).
After winning all 5 placement matched we ended up in gold 3 so mission complete but you know, not a long way to go to platinum so might try for it, right?
right?
RIOT: NO, SCREW YOU VECO
HERE, TAKE THIS PROMO SERIES AND WIN AGAINTS THIS TEAM COMPOSED SOLELY OF DIAMOND PLAYERS SO YOU CAN MOVE UP FROM YOUR GOLD 3 DIVISION.
CAN'T DO IT? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
TRY AGAIN
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none of my business.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 01, 2013 02:06 AM |
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted November 01, 2013 03:50 AM |
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Newby question
Hi, just bought Warcraft3 battlechest on special few wks ago then read & downloaded DOTA map & DOTA AI map (DotA Allstars v6.67b Rev2d AI(2).w3x). I can see how fun it can be but I only want to play co-op with another casually agst computer but computer players in AI map just seems to cheat a lot (lastsnowiing, etc), even using mode -apneng or -apnengem.
Is there a way to make computer player weaker?
[didn't really want to spend time trawling thru heaps of DOTA forum threads or create a user account to view some of them]
if this is wrong subject, that's fine, I'll just "stfu noob, stop feeding" because all other posts are about online play & very specialised language etc (still can't help smiling when I read p2 of this thread!)
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 01, 2013 01:41 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 13:41, 01 Nov 2013.
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Well it's been a few years since I played that map with a friend but if I remember correctly there should be simply commands to adjust most things on that map.
-ne or -normexp normalizes gold and exp gain for the AI if I'm not mistaken.
After a bit of digging:
Quote:
Easy:
15% bonus exp (35% w/ highexp)
no bonus gold (4 w/ highgold)
inconsistent/weaker AI
Normal:
40% bonus exp (75% w/ highexp)
4 bonus gold (8 w/ highgold)
Insane:
75% bonus exp (120% w/ highexp)
8 bonus gold (16 w/ highgold)
has innate warcraft engine bonuses (I have nothing to do w/ this)
There is 100 gold that is divided between ai teams, Normal gets x3 of that
and Insane gets x5 of it.
I just have to say it again, the AI is not on par with humans, HUMANS >>>> AI,
so the extra gold and exp is needed. If you want to remove the extra difficulty,
then input -ne to activate the normal exp mode. Right now there is no mode to
remove the gold bonuses.
HEre are some more commands
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted November 02, 2013 12:31 PM |
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Thanks for taking time to reply Azagal, the AI level explanations I hadn't read before.
Although that web page link was exactly where I downloaded map anyway 
oh well I play -apnengnnem (sounds fetishy doesn't it?) so far with sniper, oh well, woulda been good to have other levels of AI adjustments <shrugs> <you guys can carry on as normal now>
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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This thread is pages long: 
