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| Thread: Faction Discussion Sylvan! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV |
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TheJoker
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 11, 2025 08:24 PM |
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Edited by TheJoker at 20:26, 11 Apr 2025.
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Stunning town screen! Digging it.
With Hive the full reveal was almost 3 weeks after the teaser, I hope it will come quicker this time.
Rimgrabber said:
Is that the town theme in the trailer?
Yes it says so in the video description.
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted April 11, 2025 08:39 PM |
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TheJoker said:
With Hive the full reveal was almost 3 weeks after the teaser, I hope it will come quicker this time.
Hopefully it is. The Hive reveal was teaser trailer first, then some creature/hero teasers, then the full reveal. This is content teasers first, then teaser trailer, so hopefully the full reveal is next week.
I also can't wait for all of the music to be available. The Sylvan theme sounds so good.
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted April 11, 2025 11:56 PM |
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the music for sylvan is not Paul Romero, Im sure of it and don t really like it...
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 12, 2025 09:32 AM |
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Etharil said:
The season of Spring is upon us! As the flora and fauna around the world awaken, so does the forest of Murmurwoods rise to uncover its secrets!
Join us as we show you the sneak peak of the Sylvan a faction where fey guardians of nature and the elementals live in unison, defending their unique homeland from outer threats as various heroes, including elves, aid their efforts. The faction's playstyle will be focused on utility, each unit having its own unique abilities that will provide you with a lot of variety in your fighting choices from empowering the rest of your units to boosting your magical capabilities the defenders of Murmurwoods march forward to ensure their place in Jadame is secure!
Absolutely loving that Sylvan take!
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LadyUnicorn
Tavern Dweller
Fairest of All
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posted April 12, 2025 11:36 PM |
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I had no idea this discussion got heated. I had jumped off the bandwagon back in the day where Ubi replaced the unicorns with deer - to me, that was heresy. I took my time to read the thread (kudos for the drama, I've had a really rough week), and I serve what my selective, intersectional bias finds to be the reasonable line of argumentation.
Disclaimer: Please do not take personal offence. If I'm quoting your comment, it's because I'm using it to make a point, regardless of whether or not I agree or disagree. No hate to player(s) because, at the end of the day, we all love the game(s)  .
Stevie said:
TL;DR of my position on why the "Sylvan" faction name is inappropriate and needs to change:
In Sylvan's case (to be understood as H3 Rampart and H5/7 Sylvan, not any other faction), the core has always been creatures like elves (rangers and druids), treants, unicorns and green/gold dragons. In the faction's different iterations we have seen this core combined with many outliers, of which pixies and the phoenix stand out as a tasteful nod to their progenitor faction from H2, Sorceress. It is not okay then for Olden Era to come along and start throwing out the Sylvan core, replace it with the core of another faction where the pixies and phoenix were core themselves (Conflux), give them a more nature-y facelift and then pretend it's still Sylvan! It's NOT Sylvan, it's something else masquerading as Sylvan. If it's a different core -> it's a different identity -> and should also go under a different name.
So this is a very important and very valid argument. The Sylvan faction was born, identity-wise, in Ashan, where Sylanna/Mother Earth created the elves, who lived in communion with nature, in lush, densely-forested areas. Maybe it's my nostalgia - which is arguably good enough to draw an argument upon, with a healthy chunk of having good range when it comes to history, literature, as well as the visual arts: a faction called "Sylvan" isn't just equal to woodland creatures, but is by default quintessentially Elvish in nature, due to the strong impression from the days of HoMMV having lasted long and well.
Bluntly put, it's just as blasphemic to call this faction "Sylvan" as it would be to use "Inferno" to characterise "Hive". Yes, there are a couple of creatures with pointy ears, and the visual style is not too dissimilar to what has been established in the latest iterations, but this is clearly a something distinct from the Sylvan Elves of Irollan and should be framed to stand on its own.
MurlocAggroB said:
Stevie said:
You're not demonstrating how it deserves to be called that, just how much we need to compromise in order to do it.
It "deserves" it because it's the Nature Faction, and the Nature Faction is called Sylvan. This has been established. This isn't deep. It could've been called Rampart, it could've been called Preserve, or it could've been called a new thing, but they went with Sylvan and there's nothing wrong with that.
Anecdote incoming; there's a point, I promise.
Honestly, I found out about OE just a few weeks ago (been living under a rock lately), and by the Dragon Gods I was so very grateful that my silent wish was coming true; I had been mentally playing with the thought of a new Heroes-game for a while now, so imagine the reaction of an adult Amazon woman jumping jacks of joy in her tiny apartment, frightening the cat, because omg Sylvan is in the faction line-up HELLO MY SWEET INNOCENT SILVER IMPALER STALLION HOW I HAVE MISSED YOU.
Wow reality hit hard the other day, when I saw the teaser. The disappointment was visceral, when I was expecting elven forest magic and I am apparently getting... well, non-elven forest magic. I won't get into an inflamed discussion of how it could/should have been done with the given task at hand, but I will affirm that it was definitely a departure from the expectation that I had, having seen the town screen, the terrain on the map, and the faction emblem (although in hindsight, this latter reminds me of the forest creatures in a 'Snow White' anime from the 90s).
Is the departure bad? Not in and of itself, no. This is a world that I am for the most unfamiliar with, clearly different and distinct from that of Ashan, and that's where it should play up. I'll play and love the faction if it's well put together and it pans out nicely (FYI, I have thoughts about some of the creature names, as far as I can read in the circulating Google Doc). Find a different name for the faction, and polish its residents slightly, so that nobody gets misled.
Stevie said:
Oh? Okay, then listen to this: Grove, instead of "Sylvan".
Come on. Murmurwoods is already described as an ancient grove. Do it. 
Best idea I've met in this thread, and the easiest fix ever. Fewer would get confused about the identity (which becomes better anchored), and it falls more in line with the other renames of factions reimagined. If you're feeling a bit flirtatious, I'd even suggest going for Necropole instead of "Necropolis", just to showcase the distinction and pinpoint the soft reboot between worlds - but perhaps that's just me being pedantic.
P.S. I miss Findan and the Sylvan Elves of Irollan; there, I said it.
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TrueMefista
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 13, 2025 01:45 AM |
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LadyUnicorn said:
I had been mentally playing with the thought of a new Heroes-game for a while now, so imagine the reaction of an adult Amazon woman jumping jacks of joy in her tiny apartment, frightening the cat, because omg Sylvan is in the faction line-up HELLO MY SWEET INNOCENT SILVER IMPALER STALLION HOW I HAVE MISSED YOU
Ah, a fellow horse(unicorn)girl.
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted April 13, 2025 05:26 PM |
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LadyUnicorn said:
Best idea I've met in this thread, and the easiest fix ever. Fewer would get confused about the identity (which becomes better anchored), and it falls more in line with the other renames of factions reimagined. If you're feeling a bit flirtatious, I'd even suggest going for Necropole instead of "Necropolis", just to showcase the distinction and pinpoint the soft reboot between worlds - but perhaps that's just me being pedantic.
P.S. I miss Findan and the Sylvan Elves of Irollan; there, I said it.
Necropolis, unlike Sylvan, name-wise goes back to NWC and a Heroes game that took place on this world, and will even have some overlap in heroes with it (the recent "story trailer" showed one), so it's a bit more set (they're basically the faction most befitting to have the same name - Temple is renamed, Hive is new, Dungeon is story-wise and thematically thoroughly different from both NWC Dungeon and Ashan Dungeon despite the superficial similarity with the latter, Sylvan there's been a lot of words about it, the secret faction is new and we don't know what it is called).
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LadyUnicorn
Tavern Dweller
Fairest of All
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posted April 13, 2025 07:58 PM |
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LordInsane said:
Necropolis, unlike Sylvan, name-wise goes back to NWC and a Heroes game that took place on this world, and will even have some overlap in heroes with it (the recent "story trailer" showed one), so it's a bit more set (they're basically the faction most befitting to have the same name - Temple is renamed, Hive is new, Dungeon is story-wise and thematically thoroughly different from both NWC Dungeon and Ashan Dungeon despite the superficial similarity with the latter, Sylvan there's been a lot of words about it, the secret faction is new and we don't know what it is called).
Thank you for the 411. After making the post, I read up a bit more on Jadame and realised it was also a continent on Enroth - I have played HoMMIII way back, so I am familiar with the factions, but I was too young to read up on the lore. My thought was to somehow streamline names because of some wild synapse going on in my mind, thinking there's a read thread in faction names ending in the letter 'e': Temple, Hive, Grove, Necropole, Cave (now that I think of it, although I'm pretty sure that would upset people a lot lol), and *pending*. At the end of the day, perfection is found in things imperfect, so perhaps I (/we) should find the joy in this new release - as long as there's joy to be found, mind you .
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Etharil
Shaper of Lore
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posted April 16, 2025 05:08 PM |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 17, 2025 01:24 AM |
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Mildly surprised that we've yet to see a Faun hero.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 27, 2025 09:06 AM |
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I think Unfrozen should not be so strict about the lore if it brakes the game and makes the majority of fans unhappy. I mean, just say that it was thought that Jadame has no elves, but they've been living in secret and now they've decided to reveal themselves. Or just add them in a DLC as a separate Rampart faction that has been hiding in the trees for centuries and nobody knew they existed.
Unfrozen should be more creative with that lore... 90% of the fans don't care about it, don't know about it. Only hard core lore fans know about the MM universe and the sci-fi elements in it. People don't want to see robots in HOMM, but some of the developers push too much in the sci fi direction as well, because it's been in the MM universe. Yes, but that's not what made Heroes 3 one of the best games of all time. I hope Unfrozen don't realize it too late...
Do they want to create the best possible game, or do they want to follow some lore that has a lot of flaws anyway? They could just create a new continent that nobody knew that it existed and start from scratch, put all the creatures that they want in it...
Unfrozen broke Sylvan/Rampart - one of the favorite factions of a lot of fans (customers), so that they follow some lore that 90% of them have no idea about. Big red flag!
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted April 27, 2025 01:45 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
I think Unfrozen should not be so strict about the lore if it brakes the game and makes the majority of fans unhappy. I mean, just say that it was thought that Jadame has no elves, but they've been living in secret and now they've decided to reveal themselves. Or just add them in a DLC as a separate Rampart faction that has been hiding in the trees for centuries and nobody knew they existed.
What are you babbling about with there being no elves? Jadame's lore before and even in Unfrozen's take had the place with lots of elves to the point that on the mainland there were more elves than humans.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 27, 2025 03:39 PM |
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LordInsane said:
ninjata12 said:
I think Unfrozen should not be so strict about the lore if it brakes the game and makes the majority of fans unhappy. I mean, just say that it was thought that Jadame has no elves, but they've been living in secret and now they've decided to reveal themselves. Or just add them in a DLC as a separate Rampart faction that has been hiding in the trees for centuries and nobody knew they existed.
What are you babbling about with there being no elves? Jadame's lore before and even in Unfrozen's take had the place with lots of elves to the point that on the mainland there were more elves than humans.
From what I understood the reason to not have elves in Sylvan is lore contradiction? If it's not the case, then it speaks even worse for the decision to leave them out of the faction.
I agree 100% that in OE this is some sort of elemental/conflux faction and not a true Rampart/Sylvan successor...
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LordInsane
Known Hero
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posted April 27, 2025 07:07 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
LordInsane said:
ninjata12 said:
I think Unfrozen should not be so strict about the lore if it brakes the game and makes the majority of fans unhappy. I mean, just say that it was thought that Jadame has no elves, but they've been living in secret and now they've decided to reveal themselves. Or just add them in a DLC as a separate Rampart faction that has been hiding in the trees for centuries and nobody knew they existed.
What are you babbling about with there being no elves? Jadame's lore before and even in Unfrozen's take had the place with lots of elves to the point that on the mainland there were more elves than humans.
From what I understood the reason to not have elves in Sylvan is lore contradiction? If it's not the case, then it speaks even worse for the decision to leave them out of the faction.
I agree 100% that in OE this is some sort of elemental/conflux faction and not a true Rampart/Sylvan successor...
Significant numbers of light/wood elves would be a lore contradiction - but that just means the elven rangers would trend ruddy-skinned and have ties with merchants, woodland ranger is part of the shown dark elven wheelhouse in the established lore, and in both lore and gameplay there's nothing wrong with other races than humans getting to show up in multiple factions. Having said all that
the fan reaction honestly seem as universally negative as you claim? There was only a single game to split out the elemental/Conflux faction from the Forest faction lineage, and Ashan's heavily race-centric designs weren't exactly universally well regarded.
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