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| Thread: Recruitment of judges to the second ICTC contest |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 13, 2007 01:41 AM |
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Great to have your opinion Alc. I'd really appreciate it if you could express precisely what you want changed - this number to that number, this category to be removed etc. - so that I have a comprehensive view of your opinions, and then we can see what others think.
Gnoll_Mage: Here's exactly what I would like to have changed.
1. Here's a sample of some modifications to the layout: Version 4 I didn't change anything in the content - but tried to make it a little more gentle on the eye (the green and red was a bit harsh) and highlighted the cells the judges are supposed to fill numbers into (makes it easier to manage I think).
2. There seems to be an error - the cells in which you should give bonus points, you cannot write because they are locked.
3. Numbers - I'm not fond of the Marking scale you have chosen. The current sum of Marks is 146 + 17 Bonus (if I understand things right). That seems very weird to me. I would favor a scale that goes from 0-100. That's more intuitive and easier to relate to.
I would manage that by one of two approaches. Considering the nice work you've done here, I would simply change the numbers as follows:
Basics: 7 Points (5 + 2)
Race and History: 25 Points (15 + 10)
Creatures: 25 Points
Town: 10 Points (5 + 5)
Hero Class*: 8 Points (8 + 0)
Skills and Abilities: 15 Points (10 + 5)
Miscelaneous: 10 Points (various unspecified bonuses - could be earned by any number of things)
Sum of above numbers: 100
* About the Hero category: I think there should be expected a description of the Hero Class, the Hero primary Stats and progression, possibly secondary skill progression and so forth. I don't think individual Hero descriptions is important for the faction - therefore, that part should belong in the Miscelaneous group along with Campaign storylines etc. Therefore the odd value distribution - 8 points for Hero class description; 0 points for the individual Heroes because that part should be deleted.
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Alternately, you could rate each different point with a number between 0 and 10 (0 for omitted, 10 for perfect), and then calculate a weighted average as SUM(Weight x Score). This number would come out between 0 and 10 and give the score of the faction.
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What will happen now?
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 13, 2007 11:52 PM |
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Quote:
I didn't change anything in the content - but tried to make it a little more gentle on the eye (the green and red was a bit harsh) and highlighted the cells the judges are supposed to fill numbers into (makes it easier to manage I think).
Great, yes it does make it easier to understand.
Quote:
2. There seems to be an error - the cells in which you should give bonus points, you cannot write because they are locked.
That was intentional - the bonuses are fixed values that are received `in a binary fashion` - if you have the section, you get the bonus. People mostly don't like this idea as far as I can tell, so I'll probably change it in some way.
Quote:
3. Numbers - I'm not fond of the Marking scale you have chosen. The current sum of Marks is 146 + 17 Bonus (if I understand things right). That seems very weird to me. I would favor a scale that goes from 0-100. That's more intuitive and easier to relate to.
It's called a percentage!  Provided at the bottom
Quote:
Basics: 7 Points (5 + 2)
Race and History: 25 Points (15 + 10)
Creatures: 25 Points
Town: 10 Points (5 + 5)
Hero Class*: 8 Points (8 + 0)
Skills and Abilities: 15 Points (10 + 5)
Miscelaneous: 10 Points (various unspecified bonuses - could be earned by any number of things)
Sum of above numbers: 100
If we aren't changing the totals (I don't think we really need to if the number is a percentage at the end, but heh), how would these scale up? Or do they definitely need to be changed?
Quote:
* About the Hero category: I think there should be expected a description of the Hero Class, the Hero primary Stats and progression, possibly secondary skill progression and so forth. I don't think individual Hero descriptions is important for the faction - therefore, that part should belong in the Miscelaneous group along with Campaign storylines etc. Therefore the odd value distribution - 8 points for Hero class description; 0 points for the individual Heroes because that part should be deleted.
Okay, will edit this in some way.
Thanks for spending your time working me through your ideas!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 14, 2007 12:10 AM |
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I understand the concepts of percentages. But I still think it to be more logical to have the numbers sum up to 100. The ratios I suggested is what I feel would be appropriate (with some room for modifications of course) - or you could simply scale your ratios by multiplying current numbers by 100/147.
I don't like the idea of bonuses that triggers when something is included - that will make people do something just to get the bonus no matter the quality.
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What will happen now?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 14, 2007 07:52 PM |
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Quote:
I understand the concepts of percentages. But I still think it to be more logical to have the numbers sum up to 100. The ratios I suggested is what I feel would be appropriate (with some room for modifications of course) - or you could simply scale your ratios by multiplying current numbers by 100/147.
I don't like the idea of bonuses that triggers when something is included - that will make people do something just to get the bonus no matter the quality.
So what's our final decision? We need to do one, there's still no basic judgment categories.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 15, 2007 06:13 PM |
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Vokial - it's one per judge per town, not just one per town (I think!).
GL - Alc is hopefully working on the final sheet at present (or something close to it)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 15, 2007 11:36 PM |
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I did some reworkings on the Spreadsheet here - take a look at it and tell me what you think:
Spreadsheet v. 5 or Spreadsheet v. 5 from local server
EDIT > Had problem w. 2nd link - might work better now.
Most of the changes are graphical, but you will notice one very significant change beyond the re-normalization of the score to 100: I removed the penalties. This is probably a result of me being a Dane, but I don't like penalties, and I don't think there's any reason to work with them in this case. If there's a feature you don't include, that'll give you a 0, and that's enough penalty for me. In the end, I think the developers should have a liberty to decide which features they want to include, and in this case, we have penned down 90 % of what they need to do - giving them a negative score for not doing some of it seems like double punishment to me.
NOTE: I have another version of the spreadsheet with the Penalties if this causes an uproar.
Other minor changes was the modification of the "Heroes" section, the changing of the Miscelaneous section to include five customizable points that the judge can add himself (thus, if one contestand have made a really nice campaign storyline, and the judge wants to add 4 points for this, (s)he'll simply write "Campaign Storyline" in two of the Miscelaneous boxes and tick "y" to add 2 x 2 Points. In this way, the Miscelaneous section will allow the judges to add bonuses for things not included in the regular section. I also modified the summation box a bit, and added a "description" to the score (like Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor, etc.).
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What will happen now?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 04:56 PM |
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Wonderful! Untill now it's the best one. And you convinced me, miscellaneous is a category. 
There were few tiny little problems, but we allready talked about it in the messenger and you fixed it.
So from now on, the final score is from 0-100, and every judge will have to just fill the spreadsheet.
If anyone has problem with it, say it before I put it as the official judgement spreadsheet.
And GM, we are waiting to your approval.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 17, 2007 10:03 PM |
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The reason I haven't replied here is because I'm trying to get hold of Alc on ToH. Hopefully I'll be able to do this tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, there's a few things I need to take up with him and it's much easier to do so in a chatroom.
GM
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 19, 2007 05:16 PM |
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The details of the marking have been decided on now. Me and Alc are currently adding some optional functionality.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 24, 2007 02:04 PM |
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1. We need more judges. I think atleast two...
2. GM, do we have your aproval about the spreadsheet? We would like to show it to the judges and to the competitors.
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 24, 2007 02:20 PM |
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try asking Elvin, Doomforge or Freshhope (1 or 2 hs? ) theyed make a fair judges, hows your town GL?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 24, 2007 03:41 PM |
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Sorry, the spreadsheet got stranded with me. I was going to make a few more features, but haven't had the time to do it yet. Hopefully one of these days.
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What will happen now?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 24, 2007 03:51 PM |
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Quote:
try asking Elvin, Doomforge or Freshhope (1 or 2 hs?) theyed make a fair judges, hows your town GL?
Thanks for the advice.
Edit: Doomforge agreed to be a judge!
Quote:
Sorry, the spreadsheet got stranded with me. I was going to make a few more features, but haven't had the time to do it yet. Hopefully one of these days.
Alc, the whole thing is getting to complicated. The spreadsheet was good. Tell me what is needed to be fixes there.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 25, 2007 12:03 PM |
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Alc is making a front page for each judge's excel sheet that summarises each mark, or something similar; whereafter we can reveal it and whilst the competition is open I can add some pretty pictures...
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 25, 2007 03:57 PM |
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Quote:
Alc is making a front page for each judge's excel sheet that summarises each mark, or something similar; whereafter we can reveal it and whilst the competition is open I can add some pretty pictures...
Great.  Good luck...
And Elvin agreed to be a judge, too. From now on, we don't have to find new judges, we have enough. But new ones are always welcome.
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kiler
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 25, 2007 04:02 PM |
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What we basically need now is More people entering this thing I suppose.
So c'mon people get your ideas and yeh.
The more people, the better this thing will be in my opinion
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted February 20, 2007 04:37 PM |
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The Marking Spreadsheet
This is the final version of the marking spreadsheet:
Click here (thanks to Alcibiades for the link).
How to use it?
1. First column, "PRESENT?": Is the object present or not? If it is, write "y" in the suitable places. The square will become green.
2. Third column, "MARKS GIVEN": Mark the object. The minimum score is 0 and the maximum is written in the second column, under the title MARKS AVAILABLE FOR CONTENT IN THIS SECTION".
3. Fourth column, "MARKS GIVEN AS A %": After you mark an object, the percent that you gave it out of the maximum will be shown.
4. Fifth column, "COMMENTS": GM and Alcibiades wrote some comments about the specific object. Don't ignore them while marking.
Explanation about some of the categories:
"BASICS" Category:
Don't mark the objects for their presence, mark them for how good are they.
Don't give the 1%-2% for bad object, only becuase it's there.
"CREATURES" Category:
Look for original, creative, intereting and fit well to the faction and Ashan creatures.
Another important thing is the balance.
"SKILLS AND ABILITIES" Category:
Special skill and abilties-the meaning is to the racial skill and it's special abilities. Normal skill abilities-the meaning is to the regular skills like Attack, Leadership, Dark Magic, etc.
Should be original, fit well with the faction, not overpowered and things that would have tactical use in the game.
"MISCELLANEOUS AND BONUSES" Category:
Bonuses to extra things, that aren't included in the list.
If you would like to give larger bonus then 2% bonus, divide it into few objects.
How to present my final mark to every faction?
After you finish the marking, find the final mark in the bottom of the thread-as precents and as literal mark, like "78%-Very Good".
Post it in the thread of the faction, in the forum "Age of Heroes Coliseum". Example:
Quote:
Mark to the ______ (faction's name), by ______ (creator): 83% Excellent.
Every judge has two week to mark all the factions.
We'll declare who's the winner in 15 to march. The reasults will be calculated in the 14 to march-the final date of marking factions.
And remember-the most important thing here is to be fair.
[Thanks to Gnoll_Mage for creating the spreadsheet and for Alcibiades for editing it]
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted February 20, 2007 05:08 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 17:12, 20 Feb 2007.
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OK, good I'll start on 1 March 
For the schedule sending:
Good organization GLord, but there is serious problem. As I know we must send the schedule to you (arfter judiciary). No offence here, but I think that it is not morally (not only in comparison with all other competitors, and all judges) to send the schedules to one of the competitors, even if he is the organizer.
This actually can cause problems if you win in the contest.
My offers here are:
1. To send the schedules to one of the judges, choosen only by the judges "counsel".
or 2. Give up the contest, and be only competitor or organizer
I prefer variant 1...
Again:
No offence here GLord, you may be the organizer, but I'm one of the judges, when you finish with the organization work, will start the work of all judges here, and as competitor you have no work in the judges works , I'm sure you know what I mean...
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted February 20, 2007 05:19 PM |
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I got your point.
The fact that I'm also a competitor doesn't effect on the judgement.
The whole spreadsheet was made by GM and was edited by Alc.
What I do here is explaining how to use it and what to do, that's it.
The one who declares the winner is GM, not me.
The competitors should know what was the score that every judge gave them-that's how contests are.
If you are a competitor, would you like to know only who won? I think that you would like to know what mark every judge gave, right? So I won't change that thing.
No offence was taken, by the way.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted February 20, 2007 05:35 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 17:35, 20 Feb 2007.
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I think that you can be competitor, but you can't collect the schedules if you are competitor. If you want to see the schedules anfter 8 March you can but you can't see the schedules before 8 March if you are not a judge!
I think that the best way here is - one of the judges to collect the schedules and write in other topic the final results in this contest...
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