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alcibiades
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Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 12, 2007 01:12 AM |
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what you think about Aliance beetwen Laboraty and Settleemnt? They are smilar! just some driffent things: the orc's growt rate is smilar to the dungeon's.
Drumroll ... and he did it again.
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baklava
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posted January 12, 2007 01:18 PM |
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if they get bored, they eventually will have had every1 that wants to be a seneter in the senate + several bored out of brains people, and no1 would want to replace them
Well yeah but that's not the point of democracy 
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Actualy yes, that is mentioned. The Humans were created by Sylath to be his race of followers, same with the Elves only by Sylanna. All the elder races were directly created by the Dragongods. Other races have gradualy evolved from other lifeforms or are created by another race.
Ah yes, I forgot... Ok, no one knows who created the gnomes. Neither they. Probably a dragon god who wanted to implement more technology into the world... He (or she) granted them vast curiosity and scientific intelligence so that they succeed in that goal.
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What ever primitive technology the Gnomes had before they settled (I suspect they a bit lower on the ladder than Humans of the Empire nowadays), the Leap they made in 80 years is still unrealisticly grand. Progress can't be forced and if it is, the progress is often so disfunctional that it usualy makes situations worse.
Ah, people talking about realism in a fantasy game...  Well the first versions of machinery were pretty disfunctional at times, exploding here and breaking there... They were upgraded through years to work the way they should.
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If I may be so bold as to suggest a change to the history:
I would keep the creation of the Clockwork Beetles and the invention of Gun-powder at their current place. I would place the invention of the Steam-engine more around the year 420. The Armored Wagons that the Falcon-commander spoke of could be propelled by a large clockwork mechanism.
 But why wouldn't they still use those today? If they were functional once, they'd be the second time too...
About all the "too fast prosper" talk, just look at the music (always look at the music, it gives the finest examples for everything). You have records, about 20 years later you get music casettes, then another 20 years later the cd-s, then cd-players, then mp3-players, i-pods, millions of different sound systems and many other stuff. All that in about 60-70 years. Mankind can sometimes stagnate utterly, and sometimes invent at the speed of light... It's similar with the gnomes...
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in the rudimentary description of the Steam Engine/Tank, there is talk of a cannon on this vehicle. Yet this does not effect the abilities of the Engine/Tank. Also it attacks Seigewalls with it's ramhead, which would be very obsolete if it already carried a cannon. One could say the cannons are used to attack at close range, but that would stir up the question why this does only close damage, while other gun-like contraptions can be used at range. Some clarification would be very usefull in this.
It does affect the abilities of the steam tank, they're just not finished yet. Tanks attack walls with cannons, not ramheads. It has ranged ability and casts fireballs. That will be balanced with low initiative, speed and health.
Finally,
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-Thirdly, I would like to suggest to Change the names of the Drake and Dragon Golem. These names indicate that the golems were modelled after different creatures, while your description indicates that the Upgrade is just that an upgrade of machinery and parts.
Gnomes understand drakes as dragon hatchlings. Henceforth, they reason drakes are something that becomes a dragon when it grows up. Same with drake/dragon golems. Drake golems become dragon golems when upgraded, though, since machines usually have difficulties growing up...
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what you think about Aliance beetwen Laboraty and Settleemnt? They are smilar! just some driffent things: the orc's growt rate is smilar to the dungeon's.
I think you should get a dictionary... No offense...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 12, 2007 02:39 PM |
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About all the "too fast prosper" talk, just look at the music (always look at the music, it gives the finest examples for everything). You have records, about 20 years later you get music casettes, then another 20 years later the cd-s, then cd-players, then mp3-players, i-pods, millions of different sound systems and many other stuff. All that in about 60-70 years. Mankind can sometimes stagnate utterly, and sometimes invent at the speed of light... It's similar with the gnomes...
Actually, that's not true. Technological evolution is more like an exponential process, that once started will go faster and faster. Think about how much happened in the 20th century compared to the 19th, and in the 19th compared to the 18th, and so on.
I have to agree with War-Overlord that is seems very incredible that they developed all those War Machines in only 60 years and then completely stagnated in the following 600 years. If they had in fact developed all those marvelous machines in 60 years, chances would be they could come with something new in the next 600 years that would be even more powerfull, and then who would stop them in taking over the entire continent? And that they should suddenly chose to focus all the developing power on something else than war-machines also seem very unlikely to me.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 12, 2007 11:54 PM |
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Actually, that's not true. Technological evolution is more like an exponential process, that once started will go faster and faster. Think about how much happened in the 20th century compared to the 19th, and in the 19th compared to the 18th, and so on.
i have a theory that it is all dependent on whether your in a war or in a consumer market or not. during the last two world wars, we went from single shot rifles to machine guns, from horse and artillery to tanks, from artillery to nuclear weapons.
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I have to agree with War-Overlord that is seems very incredible that they developed all those War Machines in only 60 years and then completely stagnated in the following 600 years. If they had in fact developed all those marvelous machines in 60 years, chances would be they could come with something new in the next 600 years that would be even more powerfull, and then who would stop them in taking over the entire continent? And that they should suddenly chose to focus all the developing power on something else than war-machines also seem very unlikely to me.
an interesting point. a race as inventive as the gnomes would carry on inventing and inventing, but i think that the gnomes have a, if you pardon the expression, a dwarven outlook on machines i.e they won't use it unless its been tested and tested again for 50 years or so.
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baklava
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posted January 13, 2007 03:22 PM |
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Actually, that's not true. Technological evolution is more like an exponential process, that once started will go faster and faster. Think about how much happened in the 20th century compared to the 19th, and in the 19th compared to the 18th, and so on.
Well mankind was stagnating during the medieval ages, and then started getting better with the rennaisance. The gnomes didn't have the feudal period of complete stagnation, they are the first republic in Ashan. Hence it's logical that they advance more quickly, at least in technical terms.
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I have to agree with War-Overlord that is seems very incredible that they developed all those War Machines in only 60 years and then completely stagnated in the following 600 years. If they had in fact developed all those marvelous machines in 60 years, chances would be they could come with something new in the next 600 years that would be even more powerfull, and then who would stop them in taking over the entire continent?
You people don't understand gnome psychology... Even if they could, they do not WANT to take over the continent. They're content as it is and their ambitions are strictly technological. During those 600 years their military progress wasn't halted, they were however, as I said, satisfied with already invented war machines and started upgrading them, while at the same time developing stuff for normal life. Plus new chemical mixtures and bombs for the bag-o-tricks...
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baklava
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posted January 14, 2007 01:21 PM |
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Where is everybody?
If this is a protest or something, ok, I'll change the timeline 
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alcibiades
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of Gold Dragons
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posted January 14, 2007 01:36 PM |
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It's not a protest. I worded my concerns, whether you listen to it or not is completely up to you.
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War-overlord
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Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 14, 2007 02:29 PM |
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Sorry about my long silence, I got exams the next 2 weeks, so I will be silent for a bit longer.
Will be in full gear when it's over.
Got a spot of time, will give my view on things discussed.
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i have a theory that it is all dependent on whether your in a war or in a consumer market or not. during the last two world wars, we went from single shot rifles to machine guns, from horse and artillery to tanks, from artillery to nuclear weapons.
Well, that's not quite true. Machine guns have been around since the American Civil War (the Gatling Gun). Also Machineguns were first used as "grunt arms" in the Vietnam War, before that, they were only issued to tank-crews and used as standing-artillery. WOII was mainly fought with bolt-rifles. Also tanks have been around since the WOI and have been used most wars after. Also Standing-artillery(canons) is still used today, be it more high-tech version. Lastly, while you are right about nuclear-items, rockets and Grenades have been around for centuries.
Still I will accept the inventions in it's original order, if we belate the use of some of them in the military, still I don't believe that when the Gnomes invented the use of steampower, it was in such a condition to be implemented in a military vehicle. When in was invented it must have been huge and not powerfull enough to propell a large tank vehicle. Basicly I view it more like the progress of the computer, the first one filled an entire warehouse but now, 150 years later the same computing power is achieved in a few milimeters.
I also wanted to ask what powers the Gyro and battlecopters ? It's not clear to me and it would have an effect on the properties of the unit.
Lastly I would like to ask baklava to update the masterpost, because it is quite a bit out of date and it rather confuses me what is more or less final and what isn't.
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baklava
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posted January 14, 2007 10:08 PM |
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the first one filled an entire warehouse but now, 150 years later the same computing power is achieved in a few milimeters.
It's more like 100 than 150 years later I think but never mind
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I also wanted to ask what powers the Gyro and battlecopters ? It's not clear to me and it would have an effect on the properties of the unit.
Clockwork. Like first watches, before batteries were invented. Wind also helps a little too.
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Lastly I would like to ask baklava to update the masterpost, because it is quite a bit out of date and it rather confuses me what is more or less final and what isn't.
What did we actually change? Could you summarize it please? Cause it's kinda hard to find out what we agreed upon and what were just ideas that were dropped...
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 14, 2007 11:07 PM |
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the first one filled an entire warehouse but now, 150 years later the same computing power is achieved in a few milimeters.
It's more like 100 than 150 years later I think but never mind
Actualy Charles Babbage and other computerpioneers have been working on computers since atleast 1822, so it is actualy more in the direction of 200 year.
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Lastly I would like to ask baklava to update the masterpost, because it is quite a bit out of date and it rather confuses me what is more or less final and what isn't.
What did we actually change? Could you summarize it please? Cause it's kinda hard to find out what we agreed upon and what were just ideas that were dropped...
As "leader" of this project it is actualy your job to filter this out. But from the top of my mind:
- we agreed more or less on Ox Rider > Yak Riders as the level 3 creature.
- we more or less agreed on using the bag-o-tricks idea as the racial skill (Might I add that it would be better if we changed the name of the skill to something like trickery, because the name Arcamistreering has not much to do with it anymore(apart from being an unwieldy word))
There are also a few other things discussed over the pages that haven't passed Baklava's view. So it might be usefull to check the last few pages.
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baklava
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posted January 15, 2007 12:28 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:41, 15 Jan 2007.
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As "leader" of this project it is actualy your job to filter this out.
Probably, but I'm as lazy as a dead tortoise... 
Ok, I'll update the master post as soon as possible...
EDIT:
Master post updated accordingly... Fixed some grammar mistakes, edited the racial ability (you should check it out since it's quite changed to meet the needs of simplicity, although I preferred the old, complicated version), added the yaks (we need their stats however), timeline and credits...
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 18, 2007 06:19 PM |
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It has been kinda quiet here, so I decided to liven it up a little now I have time again. I will give a new attempt at the description of the Clockwork and Gearwork Beetles. Tell me what you think of it.
Clockwork Beetles
These ingenious automatons are one of the first military inventions of the Gnomes. Modelled after the beetles of Carlevor, these metal contraptions make up the first line of defence of the Gnomes. Powered by their clockwork mechanisms, the Beetles move around the battlefield for an extended period of time, slicing everything they encounter with their metal mandibles. The Clockwork Beetles operate on their own and are not directly controlled, which results in rather random movement patterns, the Gnomes however claim that the Beetles are following a basic strategy but the have never revealed what that is. The multi-legged design of these automatons enables them to position their spike-like legs between cracks in a wall and scale them in a short period of time.
Gearwork Beetles
Prosperous towns are able to afford to upgrade their Beetles with more complex mechanisms and higher quality parts, thus creating the Gearwork Beetles. Overall more efficient then Clockwork Beetles, the Gearwork Beetles can be covered with metal exoskeleton to cover their gears, making them last longer when attacked. The Gearwork Beetles are also refitted with a strong spring-mechanism in their mandibles, which is cocked when it attacks and after the pressure come to great snaps the mandibles once more. The upgraded mechanism also makes the Beetles move around longer, the highest record today is a Beetle which walked around thee and a half days, before stumbling over a rock which broke several of the Beetles legs.
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baklava
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posted January 18, 2007 08:47 PM |
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YES! IT'S ALIVE! THE THREAD IS ALIIIIIIIIIIIVE
I wouldn't call the clockwork beetles "ingenious automatons"... They're rather crappy buggy robots with those "zzzz" sounds coming from somewhere inside them, but the rest is great, as usual. Please make some more
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 18, 2007 08:52 PM |
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yes, but the gnomes will call them "Ingenious masterpeices!!!" as they are the ones who created them!
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 18, 2007 08:55 PM |
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very nice Baklava, your racial skill is a little weird, but i can dig it how does it quite work? can any unit throw the tricks? or is it just the hero?
and thanks for saying a helped here a lot, i lost hope when you went inot SBilster, but then it said
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and Ted
that made my day, and i got 100% in my french test for comparison
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baklava
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posted January 18, 2007 09:09 PM |
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that made my day, and i got 100% in my french test for comparison
 Whoa dude, now you make a town and mention me in the credits, perhaps then I'd get a 100% in my chemistry test... 
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can any unit throw the tricks? or is it just the hero?
Well not any unit, mechanical units can't. Only heroes, engineers or alchemists I think...
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War-overlord
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Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 18, 2007 09:10 PM |
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yes, but the gnomes will call them "Ingenious masterpeices!!!" as they are the ones who created them!
I think they would sooner call the "ingenious masterpieces", but let's not hammer on spelling mistakes, I make them all the time.
Secondly, they cannot be robots. Robots are by definition electro- or bio-mechanical devices that execute their program. An automaton however is self-operating machine, thus being a more accurate description of the Beetles
I will make more, descriptions, but I would like to do them in order. There are however still some things unclear to me about the Mechanic, firstly I can't form a picture with a "rocketdart" and I would not call it a decent description untill I included that. (I still say using a Flintlock pistol would make more sense) Secondly, it's not clear to me how a mechanic could "remotely operate" any of the Gnome contraptions ? I need a bit of explaination on this subjects
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Well not any unit, mechanical units can't. Only heroes, engineers or alchemists I think...
According to your masterpost, Battlecopter can use the explosive tricks to.
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baklava
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posted January 19, 2007 12:34 PM |
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Secondly, they cannot be robots. Robots are by definition electro- or bio-mechanical devices that execute their program. An automaton however is self-operating machine, thus being a more accurate description of the Beetles
Ok, let me rephrase that: They're rather crappy buggy automatons with those "zzzz" sounds coming from somewhere inside them
Just kidding... That reminds me of that episode of South Park where Stan's father says "God damn it, I hate those f*cking Indians! I'm sorry, Native Americans"
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I can't form a picture with a "rocketdart" and I would not call it a decent description untill I included that
Like ancient Chinese fireworks. Something like those red rockets from the cartoons.
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I still say using a Flintlock pistol would make more sense
Hey, we're talking about gnomes here. Sense has nothing to do with anything
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Secondly, it's not clear to me how a mechanic could "remotely operate" any of the Gnome contraptions ? I need a bit of explaination on this subjects
They have remotes. Like those for TV, but larger and with big red buttons.
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According to your masterpost, Battlecopter can use the explosive tricks to.
Ok, and battlecopters. I actually didn't make the ability itself, Actionjack did, I merely edited it, so I might have missed some things. Projectiles can basically be used by all ranged units I guess, but other stuff only by engineers, alchemists or gyrocopters...
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War-overlord
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Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 19, 2007 01:52 PM |
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Like ancient Chinese fireworks. Something like those red rockets from the cartoons.
Ok, I got a picture, but I still don't understand how it would be fired. Just holding the Rocket and lighting it would be rather stupid and dangerous. Gnomes are reckless, but not this reckless.
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They have remotes. Like those for TV, but larger and with big red buttons.
That is rather impossible without electricity and radio-technology. Adding those technologies would make the Gnomes to advanced in my opinion and it would make it very improbable because they would have incorporated that in their other inventions as wel if it existed.
I think a large extendable hand-thing would be more fun and it would fit better to the setting.
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baklava
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posted January 19, 2007 03:15 PM |
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Ok, I got a picture, but I still don't understand how it would be fired. Just holding the Rocket and lighting it would be rather stupid and dangerous. Gnomes are reckless, but not this reckless.
They tie it to a staff and stick that staff into the ground, just like ancient Chinese (I guess).
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That is rather impossible without electricity and radio-technology.
I knew you'd say that... I had no other ideas though...
I don't quite understand what you mean by large expendable hand thing. Could you describe it a little better?
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