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| Thread: A Grand Project: HoMM III Tournament Patch |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted September 14, 2003 06:52 PM |
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Quote:
THINGS TO DO LIST:
PART 1 :- TWEAKS TO STANDARD GAMEPLAY
1) Naga Banks:- to give gems (DONE)
....good! 
2) Griffin Cons:- to take out angels and give resources ( ??? )
I disagree...every town seem to have their creature boost..like necro with skels, dungeon with internal dwelling, inferno with demon farming, stronghold with 3 lvl7, conflux with phoenixes, Rampart with complete 1-6 plus walls first week and fortress with hives...so everything is more or less ok.. i think just lighten down the griff convs and hives would be enough..like:
50 and 100 Griffs = 1 Angel
150 and 200 Griffs = 2 Angels
3) Hives:- to take out critters here also ( ??? )
...see above
4) Catapult:- to make undestroyable ( ??? )
( not sure here, maybe something like 5000 hit points is more a happy medium ? )
...well would be ok, but i dont get reason why it shouldnt be made completely undestroyable ..its just a lame thing to sit in town with Black dragons on while Fortress or Strongtroups wont get in...i cant see any reason.
5) First Aid Tent:- make much stronger ( ??? )
...maybe just give it the same stats as the balista do have.
6) Balista:- Make alittle stronger also ( ??? )
( here i tried 500 hit points )
..i think Balista is already strong enough, giving it more hitpoints would just lead to more "making the comp hitting balista" strategy which is also more like a bug...a clear NO to that one.
7) 30-30-30-10 Ratio:- Suggestion to make more scaled to 40-30-20-10 so there is 10% to get maxed tope/crypt/con etc and 40% to get a smallest sized 1 seems to b more logical here ( ??? )
...maybe no logic but i think we shouldnt change that one. We shouldnt try to make a new game out of it.
8) Spells DD/FLY:- take out of play ( ??? )
( not sure best way to do this yet, as values for lvl's ie 0 or 6 dun work, but maybe the massive high cost will suffice 
...yes agree massive high cost would be the way to take those toss spells out of the game. But then we MUST take those spells out of the guilds too...otherwise there would be a lost spell in lvl5 guild.
9) Balance Conflux Town:- to bring conflux back into game ( ??? )
( this is progress )
...yes lighten down the lvl7 to 1 per week and therfore gifing them some competitve stats would be a good first step..after this some gametesting...also building cost should be rewatched.
10) Balance Necro Town:- Same as above. ( ??? )
..Ive no idea how to make it
PART 2: ENHANCED GAMEPLAY
1) Duel Swords:- A hero can use both hand slots for a sword, so he can wear 2, but at the expense of no shield. ( ??? )
..Please no irritating game changes. As i said someone who wants stuff like this should play WOG.
just my thoughts Xarfax1
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2003 09:04 PM |
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Destroying catapult is over-rated. Ok, how many games have you had where you had not even 1 of lightling pendant(cata is immune to implo.. and the other killer chain lightling will b cancelled out too), teleport, fire ele, resurrection(resurrect either archers or winged units)and earthquake? I remember most of my game getting either earthquake, teleport or res. It will encourage the use of water magic then(exp water is required to teleport things into within castle.) I think 2000 health for catapult is enuf.. then if the defender is capable of destroying that it means he is indeed capable enuf. By the way, just asking issit possible to cast antimagic on catapult?
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted September 15, 2003 01:30 AM |
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i'ma alittle supprised at some of your thinking here xar, especially with regaurds the griff cons and hives with u being a random player. I guess if u polled 500 players on what changes they would like to see, u would get 500 different answers. I can only say that alot of ppl that hav spoken to me in zone etc hav asked if not only can these bugs b fixed, but also if this 5 year old game can b spiced up alittle without lossing the original h3 feel. I for 1 really hav no intentions of making a wog type game, that is not the plan here.
I really see cons and hives as being to much advantagous to castle or fortress and is the reason they r not placed on any tournament fixed maps, so i think they should b changed !
with regaurds the war machines. I can see the point of making catapult almost undestroyable, but i think the key word here is "almost". I still think that there should b a possibility to destroy it, just make it very hard. The tent should not b undestroyable, it is the weakest machine and should remain so i think, but 250 hp's would at least make it half usefull in game ( with the addition of maybe increasing the effect of first aid 2nd skill ). The balista also is not to bad as is (250) but by making alittle stronger ( say in the range 500 to 1000), it will not usually b destroyed in 1st round of combat like now with a little chain spell. As far as the AI is concerened, u can lower the value the AI has on these machines (or anything for that matter) while still increaseing the strength of the object.
The flux and necro towns r not that hard to figure out what to do here, we know bout lvl 7 in flux, and adjusting overal stats to make the whole town more balanced.Sam with necro, i dun see the problem here? The main reason necro is not used is simply because of the skells making and is a cheap town over all. My suggestion here is to make the Skeleton THE weakest critter in the game (no longer the mighty imp  ) and to make necro amplifier cost more ( i think i used 5000 gold in my example i sent u ). Also i suggest a little tweaking with the necro lvl 7 here as well, but not much. The idea here is that for skells to b effective ( even with spec hero's) u would need them in the absoulte highest numbers u could collect on any given map.
I also agree with dd and fly, but thought u already realised i meant not in guilds so i didnt say that b4. So only way u can get is with tombs, and then make so expensive they r impractical to use ! still not totally sure if to take outta play 100%
I think that u need to take an overall view of things, making a change in 1 place then has a knock-on effect somewhere else in game.
I also made the mage guilds build structure alittle harder by increasing the gold cost per level. i know the resources get more and more but not sure why a lvl 1 guild should cost less than a lvl 5 guild in gold ????
I dont know may ppl that hav trouble building up 2 towns and mage guild to lvl 5 on 99% of maps we play by end of wk 2, so my idea was to make alittle tougher here. I think i left the resources the same but increased the gold cost per lvl by 50% or something in my example, so the build was like 1500 gold for lvl 2, 2250 for lvl 3 upto lvl 5 costing 5000 gold. this was only experiment and is just an idea. maybe even make lvl 1 guild cost 1000 instead of 2000 to start, and make each lvl increase by 500 or 1000 is an option also.
Improve 2nd skills if possible: Fist Aid, Sorcery, Mysticism etc,
Sorcery could b maybe 5% basic 10% adv 20% exp, Mysticism 5 mana basic 10 mana adv 20 mana exp
also a thought, what would u guys say to a face lift of the heroes portraits? this also very easy and i hav several new 1's already.
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Strawdozz
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2003 05:51 AM |
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IMHO.
I like the idea of keeping the essence of griffin cons, but turn the outcome into random lvl7 (if its possible).
Opening a griffin con is a cool feeling; why ruin it and gain only another resource mine?
I would like to be able to play with Tower competitively, so boosting Naga Banks seems good. Is this enough to get Tower back into game?
Strawdozz
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Straw
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted September 15, 2003 07:55 AM |
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Quote:
IMHO.
I like the idea of keeping the essence of griffin cons, but turn the outcome into random lvl7 (if its possible).
Opening a griffin con is a cool feeling; why ruin it and gain only another resource mine?
I would like to be able to play with Tower competitively, so boosting Naga Banks seems good. Is this enough to get Tower back into game?
Strawdozz
the random lvl 7's is interesting, would also work for hives to have random lvl 6's.
i think in general tower would b alot better with the new influx of gems.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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rechet
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2003 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
THINGS TO DO LIST:
PART 1 :- TWEAKS TO STANDARD GAMEPLAY
1) Naga Banks:- to give gems (DONE)
Agreed.
2) Griffin Cons:- to take out angels and give resources ( ??? )
Griffin conservatories do make Castle players benefit all too much. Alas, the creature type can't be changed without hex editing and cannot be made random either, so I'd suggest upping the number of Griffins that one has to fight and take the number of Angels down. For example, 40% fight 100 griffins for 1 angel, 30% fight 150 griffins for 1 angel, 20% fight 250 griffins for 2 angels and 10% fight 400 griffins for 3 angels.
3) Hives:- to take out critters here also ( ??? )
Same as above, increase the # of enemies fought and reduce payments.
4) Catapult:- to make undestroyable ( ??? )
This is a bit of a double-edged sword: it also makes it impossible for the ATTACKER to destroy the catapult to trap the enemy troops inside the castle. (Especially if no arrow towers or enemy archers/fliers are present and attacker's army has plenty of shooters) Other than that, I agree that catapult is way too easy to bring down. Upping HPs to between 3000 and 5000 would make it quite a bit harder.
5) First Aid Tent:- make much stronger ( ??? )
I suppose the only thing that can be adjusted is Hit Points.. But upping it to 250 HP as someone suggested would make it last longer. No need to make it have more HPs, though, as then it would just become an easy HP bait for the stupid AI. Adjusting the AI value for the First Aid Tent so that the AI doesn't put so much priority for destroying it would be good as well. (Not sure if the AI value would have to go up or down to achieve this effect, but shouldn't be too hard to playtest.)
6) Balista:- Make alittle stronger also ( ??? )
Upping the damage of the ballista a bit shouldn't produce unbalanced play, just because one can't hire more than one at a time. As a side effect, the Artillery skill would become a bit more useful as well. Just as with the First Aid Tent, the AI value needs to be "toned down" so that the AI doesn't target it so often. I'm not 100% if I would touch the HPs, though - getting cheap damage soakers against the stupid AI is already too easy.
7) 30-30-30-10 Ratio:- Suggestion to make more scaled to 40-30-20-10
Overall, this change has very low effect on anything, but the 40-30-20-10 ratio seems more natural. However, should it be noted that balancing Griffing Conservatories and Hives by upping enemy numbers and reducing prizes alone isn't sufficient, reducing the chance for high-end prizes ON JUST THOSE TWO should do the trick.
8) Spells DD/FLY:- take out of play ( ??? )
This is "rather easy": Just zero out the chance of getting this spell in mage guilds ("% chance to gain" -columns in SPTRAITS.TXT) and make the mana cost very high. Remember to up the chance of other 5th level spells so that the total remains at 100%. It needs to be playtested if increasing the mana cost to very high levels has any adverse effects on the AI behaviour, though. I'd suggest setting the AI value of these two spells to zero as well.
9) Balance Conflux Town:- to bring conflux back into game
Main problem with conflux is "too good" 2nd and 7th level units. Tone down the stats and weekly growth on air/storm elementals and set the Firebird/Phoenix growth to one with a reasonable increase to its statistics.
10) Balance Necro Town:- Same as above.
Upping the cost for the Skeleton Transformer and Necromancy Amplifier together with weakened stats for skeletons should do the trick. IMHO, reducing defense value and hit points should do.
PART 2: ENHANCED GAMEPLAY
1) Duel Swords:- A hero can use both hand slots for a sword, so he can wear 2, but at the expense of no shield.
I know that using two shields may seem a bit silly, but if we're to allow double attack boosters for ATT-heavy hero types, it's unbalancing to not allow double defense boosters for DEF-heavy heroes. Especially since a boost in ATT gives results immediately whereas DEF needs to be upped quite a bit before any greater effect can be noticed. (Remember that each extra ATT gives +5% damage while each extra DEF gives only -2% damage reduction, assuming even ATT/DEF values before change.)
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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet
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Jukka Mikkonen a.k.a Sir Rechet
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted October 10, 2003 04:48 PM |
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testers needed
i now need a small and trusted group of players, pref on-line tourney vets to form a group of play testers. a 1st release is almost due and gameplay/balance needs to b tested where some things hav been implemented.
any1 that can help post here plz.
if any1 has any questions about how this will work or change ur current h3 conf and will it stop u playing reg games etc with current h3 versions, feel free to ask.
btw its all version players i need, 1.4, 3.2, 4.0.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted October 05, 2004 09:18 PM |
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bump@top
just to see if theres still any interest and ideas around.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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JohnStalker
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 05, 2004 09:33 PM |
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can you also ban , dd / fly ?
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted October 05, 2004 09:36 PM |
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yes, at least in a way. at the moment i hav made them so expensive that they impossible to cast.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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JohnStalker
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 05, 2004 10:17 PM |
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can i download a beta ?
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted October 06, 2004 01:44 AM |
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Regarding phoenixes, what about keeping the growth and lowering it's HP? That would keep the uniqueness of the creature amongst the level 7's and would be cool. Back then when I found it out (it's an old idea of mine) I had also some other reasons but I forgot :-)
What about 120-150 HP each? (Not sure)
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justdoing
Adventuring Hero
#2
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posted October 06, 2004 06:13 AM |
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so, where do i d/l this patch?
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JohnStalker
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 06, 2004 08:42 AM |
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I would like to point out that naga banks giving gems is not such a great idea. Cause i almost never run out of games because of the magic gardens. If u have 2 magic gardens near your castle, it's almost like having a gems mine.
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Maximus
Famous Hero
Bronzed God
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posted October 06, 2004 11:03 AM |
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naga banks not giving gems is a game bug, even if u look in map editor on description of naga banks it says they give gems, so thats just fixing something thats kinda broke and also make tower town alittle more playable.
making 1 town give more lvl 7th growth then anyother town seems really unbalanced and i'm not sure what the intentions of the development team was here, not to mention the crazy speed. although these can b fun in single player mode, this is all about a more balanced game for multi.
i guess the best way really is to throw out a patch and let ppl try it, then get feed back. i'll see if i get get 1 uploaded in the next wk or so.
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Frost. Sometimes it makes the blade stick !
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tanjun
Hired Hero
Heroes 3 noob
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posted October 06, 2004 12:12 PM |
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Ya, there is a bug for the naga bank and also for the arrow towers. The damage of the arrow towers is also higher than the range stated when clicking the arrow towers of a castle.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted October 13, 2004 05:18 PM |
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foo bums, leave the creature banks as they are.
Just because you dunno how to crash your way through a map isnt an excuse to remove its possibility.
I would like to see a stronghold creature bank aswell, reward could be rocs.
Thing is crashing creature dwells early on is a setup for another tactic of the usual build up one. Dont be boring and remove it, and without mass slow and a poor map you are not very likely to clear a full con early on anyway and most mainfights take place early on if you dont toss around with huge blocks.
so there.
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted October 14, 2004 05:59 AM |
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Edited By: Frank on 14 Oct 2004
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I would like to see more interesting artefacts. Like a weapon that would give +2 att and +1 sp. Simple things like that. Or even more advanced like a weapon +4 att and mass cursed spell upon entering a fight. A necklace +1 def and +250 gold a day. A pair of boots +3 def and advanced pathfinding skill... You get the picture. It would be enjoyable to have a greater variety of artefacts. And maybe a way of bettering the art's properties at the black market for a price.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted October 14, 2004 09:19 AM |
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Perhaps there is a way to make Necro a bit weaker...and bring it back to tournaments again...
How about changing the costs of buildings in their towns?
All buildings cost gold, ressources AND SKELETONS?
Donīt know if it is possible to do, but that would help to lower the number of skells a necro player could gather in a few weeks....
Or perhaps a necro town has "weekly" costs of..hmmmm....an specific amount of skells?
Like (number of day)*(number of week)*20 (30) = costs
E.G.: on week 3 day 7, players has to "sacrifice" (7)*(3)*(20) = 420 skellies
To make it logical, u can say that u have to sacrifice these skellies to "place" it on the skeleton transformer, so that they will "transform" into those units which will appear in the different town dwellings on day 1 every week.
....numbers to be discussed of course..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted October 14, 2004 10:18 AM |
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I miss playing necro. Necro wars are the best !
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