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| Thread: Bi Sexual People |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 26, 2005 08:47 PM |
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Yes, a lot of early Church theories are speculation. Part of the historical game, though, is keeping it plausible. 
Why didn't non-canonical Gospels make it into the Bible? The speculation depends on the Gospel in question. In the case of Thomas, it has a lot of Gnostic elements. At the time the canon was developing, Gnosticism was a "heresy" that the "orthodox" group wanted to stamp out. By "orthodox" and "heresy," of course, I mean "the people who won" and "the people who lost" respectively.  As for Mary (and also The Acts of Thecla), somebody thought it was okay for those works to run around in the first place. Somebody thought it was a good idea to attribute a Gospel to Mary and to describe the activity of a female missionary. We have copies of them, after all.
My point isn't that Christianity didn't end up with an entrenched, socially conservative element. My point is that Christianity, and religion in general, is not conservative by default. The history was just an example. If you want a non-historical example, check out Wicca. A system that could very easily slip into heterosexism (one god & one goddess) has by and large remained socially liberal.
A few weeks ago, there was a hubub in the US about a Christian denomination putting gay-friendly advertisements for their congregations on network television. The networks went boink and some of them refused to air the ads.
As for modern objectors: My position is that people have the right to prohibit homosexuality/bisexuality on religious grounds. They're also allowed to refuse to eat pork, drink alcohol, or whatever, on religious grounds. They're allowed to tell other people all about how terrible homosexuality, booze, etc. is according to their religion. What they're NOT allowed to do is force an ostentiably secular government to support their religious prohibitions. And that is exactly what the situation is when civil marriage is limited to heterosexual couples. The problem is getting said objectors to see and/or recognize that.
Why do "Same Sex Marriage" and "Bisexual People" threads always end up topically tied to one another? There should be a link in the first posts directing people to the companion thread. The discussions almost always feed on each other. 
Aculias asks:
Quote:
Heres one Question,Have any of you seen or heard god or really felt his presence.
Yes. But that's a topic for another thread.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 27, 2005 05:41 AM |
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Facinating.......
I also know that the devil also plays with your minds to falsely trickery to make you believe you sense a presence you think God but for sure you may not know who you really senced.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 27, 2005 10:01 AM |
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Quote:
Facinating.......
I also know that the devil also plays with your minds to falsely trickery to make you believe you sense a presence you think God but for sure you may not know who you really senced.
Even though it´s slightly off-topic - that´s a very good argument. If I were the devil, I would strongly consider pretending to be god and founding a church. Then I would promise my followers eternal bliss, and
threaten those who don´t join with eternal pain. My symbol would be an instrument of torture and execution. At the base of my belief system would be a blood sacrifice - my message would be:"Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness". I would give them the notion that they are born unclean, laden with guilt from what their fore-fore-fore-fore...fathers have done in disobedience to me. I would tell them to accept wordly injustice and falsely promise them compensation in the afterlife. And, just to stay at least a tiny bit on-topic , I would also encourage them to discriminate against dissenters, against women and against homosexuals.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted February 27, 2005 10:12 AM |
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Thank you Lews for that completely (I'm sure ) complaete and heartfelt evaluation of the situation.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 01, 2005 01:12 AM |
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Quote:
My point isn't that Christianity didn't end up with an entrenched, socially conservative element. My point is that Christianity, and religion in general, is not conservative by default.
Agreed totally. Though you see, you have to look at each historical phonomenon through the prism of that said period. What is considered conservative in some conditions isnt conservative in others. And also, the way religious interpretation is moulded by the historical circumstances influences its conservativism. And as a food for thought, you might consider, what caused “Christianity to end up with an entrenched socially conservative element”?
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Yes, I remeber when I went there and these customs of touching, grabing and hugging were abit shoking to me, since myself I am not a fan of touching other males nor that they would touch me... But still it is intersting expression of friendship...
Shocking?! I always considered males hugging and grabbing was a common practice in the West too. Whats so unusual to hug your friend when you see him, or tap him when you joke around really? Youngsters are even fond of gentle punching and wrestling. OK, kissing, Macedonians do tend to avoid, except on special occasions (weddings, holidays). At the same time, Balkan men are the biggest homophobes in Europe, so there isnt really a connection.
*hugs Acu* *Acu hugs back* *Acu tries to kiss* *Acu gets beaten up like hell*
And that’ll likely happen if you make friends with me or Vlad. LOL
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted June 01, 2008 01:44 PM |
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Disclaimer: no I have not read this thread so far...
Question: Can a bisexual/ yet-to-explore-his-sexuality male really have any kind of commited relationship with a woman? Can you choose to ignore these urges and deny the attraction - or is it just social pressure telling you that you need to get that wife and kids - only to feel trapped and resentful later?
Is it fair on the woman? Is it fair on the man? Is life fair! {}
grrrrrrrrrr where are all the single straight men!!! or bisexual women {} (ok i live on a very very small island lol}
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uhuh
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted June 01, 2008 02:31 PM |
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We got Bisexuals, and we got Transgender.
Society(religion) tends to think and wants to raise young people into a A4 piece of paper. They say: Being in love with the same gender is a crime, being of both genders is a abomination.
Society early and still partly now wants to raise girls into sex dolls that are a little bit helpless, and it gets worse. Just see at "Barbie", "Bratz" and other girls toys............
The sexual minorety is what we call "Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals", and so on forth. Go se into a historie book, during the burning times girls who got willpower and a proper mind was accused of being witches, and it tended to be girls who actually had property. They was accused because they was not following what Society(religion) pressed on the world, and was executed as evil heretics.
Lets go back shall we? The early Church after Christ death, was 100% equal in the terms of women and men. Then sexisme arrived and continued and rewrote texts and scriptures along with teaching the word of discrimination. Then it evolved, and it was a A4 standard.
Only the recent 150 years movements have started to kill earlyer rumors and supression.
Then lets go back to our time shall we? We still got mistranslated version of the Bible out, religion is still attempting to supress women and the sexual minorety. We got toys attempting to turn women into dressing like snows, we got peer-pressure.
We got people and media spreading racist images and captalisme from USA attempting to take over the world.
Soo lets face it, just accept the world as it is. And please stop being a racist/ignorant fools people.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted June 01, 2008 06:18 PM |
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I have on problems with Bi sexuals.
I now it sounds sorted, but I think that they (as apart of our society) should be accepted as they are. There are still people who mock and insult the Bi's for their so-called "unatral behaviour". Total blindness. I often wonder why some people prefer to follow some kind of narrow-minded dogma instead of their hart and emotions; in other words: the thing that make us what we are.
Bi's (along with Gays/Lesbians) simply don't feel attracted to the opposite gender (only), but do they have to follow the rules the mob has gives us to follow ? I thought (forgive me the naïvite) that in a modern, liberal and free society, everyone was to do whatever he like without penalties ? Nah, sometimes people won't accept it, but they should do it, because otherwise the struggle will continue.
As some people don't realise, the Homo's/Lesbains/Bi's (of whom I will refer a Holebi's) aren't some kind of invention from the 20th century. That's complete bullocks: It is known that in Ancient Greece and Rome things are Bi-Sexuality was accepted. That is, they said it didn't exist, as it was seen as normal, that people sharing the same gender got... coetus. Anyway holebi's did exist, the names for them did not. In the middle ages the acceptance of holebi's changed. Holebi's that were caught in the act were exocised or burned as witches.
Untill the 20th century, the mere existance simply was ignored, but now in the 21st century, it is recognised, but not accepted. 
Eventhough (partially) accepted in the Western World, Homosexuality is treated as a sin elsewhere: some months ago two young Saudi men where caught haveing sex with eachother. They were sentenced to a thousant whiplashes. I still ask myslelf why that had to happen...
I still don't know...
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted June 01, 2008 11:10 PM |
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Question: Can a bisexual/ yet-to-explore-his-sexuality male really have any kind of commited relationship with a woman? Can you choose to ignore these urges and deny the attraction - or is it just social pressure telling you that you need to get that wife and kids - only to feel trapped and resentful later?
I know this is a major generalisation, but I also know we have some bisexual members here, and people who are friends with bisexual people - I'd really like your POV. Also, the social pressures placed on males to be straight often leads them into hetero relationships before they "come out" - do you think this is true bisexuality, or just a desire to conform? I guess only the guy knows for sure... hmm
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uhuh
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 02, 2008 02:26 AM |
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I live in California Kooka
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 02, 2008 06:20 AM |
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Does a former lesbian that is now a male count? . Technically I am 'straight' now. .
Yeah, it is hard to live different from what is considered 'the norm'. You get targeted by hate groups, and some people actually cringe when you are around. I've even had feces thrown at me. It is tempting to act differently then you are. It is the easier path, and has less resistance.
For guys it is a bit harder to, I'll be the first to admit. Some also fool themselves. There are even more then a few cases where lesbians marry gays so that nobody finds out. It is not an easy life to live.
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Message received.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 02, 2008 06:41 AM |
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I just wonder who has the time to care about other people's sexual orientation. As if I have nothing better to do with my time than worry about what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted June 02, 2008 11:39 AM |
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ditto omega. One must more be concern about hes own kinkiness then invation of foreign one
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types in obscure english
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted June 02, 2008 01:51 PM |
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I guess it's a concern when your partner is too ashamed to "come out", it's a real self esteem boot when they are searching for something you don't have ie a penis. It's heartbreaking to see someone troubled and struggling with their own sexual identity because of the social pressures that they are under. It's confusing when you don't really know, or you don't know whether it's just a fantasy they have, or if they really are kidding themselves and using you as a way to just maintain the status quo. It's hard to approach a man about his sexuality as it is probably the most sensitive issue for them - especially if they are in denial. It's a mind**. When you love someone you just want them to be happy, you want to be there for them, you want to help them on this journey and help them realise true contentment both in who they are and what they want from life.
When you are in love, it's hard not to make so many sacrifices and consessions that you end up at the point that you lose your own hmmm I think I started blahing ages ago
So this post was not about putting labels on anyone, hell it's not like I don't fantasise about women, or care what people's sexual orientation is...
@ pecu hehe  How big is your bathtub, and I wonder how TnT would feel about that!
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted June 02, 2008 04:08 PM |
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Quote:
When you are in love, it's hard not to make so many sacrifices and consessions that you end up at the point that you lose your own hmmm I think I started blahing ages ago
When your inloved and your partner wants to do something kinky,you'd be suprised how far you'd go,from a person who did threesoms 
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types in obscure english
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted June 08, 2008 01:13 AM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 01:14, 08 Jun 2008.
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Quite frankly I wonder why a topic exists around a non-issue like bisexuality. Since the first post got vanished that only overcomplicates things.
Quote:
Question: Can a bisexual/ yet-to-explore-his-sexuality male really have any kind of commited relationship with a woman? Can you choose to ignore these urges and deny the attraction - or is it just social pressure telling you that you need to get that wife and kids - only to feel trapped and resentful later?
Personally I don't see the point in this question; it depends on the individual. As far as I know there are three kinds of bisexuals;
- Preference for male sex
- Preference for female sex
- No preference
For the former two there is little problem, they usually call themself straight or gay regardless of their actual sexuality and keep it simple. I, for one, have the displeasure of being in the last group.
Personally, I've never been too influenced by social pressure or the like, and wether or not I'd be suited for a comitted wife-and-kids kind of relationship would depend on wether or not I feel ready for that, and I believe that is simply how it is for everybody, there is nothing different in that just because I am bisexual.
My problem with having no preference goes deeper than just sexual desires. With females I have a tendency of feeling in a more dominant role, while with men, a more submissive role, and both roles seem highly appealing. Choosing one, inevitably, leads to giving up the other. But I hope one day I might get a preference.
It should be noted though, just because someone is bisexual that does NOT mean the person has a higher chance of cheating than a straight person. The only issue there might be, is the fact he might indeed get the feeling he is missing something.
In my opinion, the general mainstream opinion that people should be monogamous plays a major role in this as well; I often think for bisexuals it would be best if they could maintain a relationship with BOTH a man and a woman, if they feel like it and both partners are okay with it.
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Also, the social pressures placed on males to be straight often leads them into hetero relationships before they "come out" - do you think this is true bisexuality, or just a desire to conform?
I think often (and especially in the past) people had little ways of discovering what their sexuality was, they had no where to go to experiment or figure it out (now we have the internet). As such, many bisexual men (I highly doubt they are homosexual; homosexuals wouldn't be able to get a hardon with a woman and produce children) were influenced by society and made to believe they should be with a woman. It is only much later they realize they are actually bisexual, perhaps with a male preference. I believe it has to do with simply a lack of knowledge or space, not so much a desire to conform.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted June 08, 2008 12:48 PM |
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Sex of any kind is considered taboo, thus people are more interested in it. That is why a non-issue like bisexuality and homosexuality gets so much attention. Despite the fact that it isn't always about sex, people associate it with such.
There are rare people however. Take a female who when first developing their sexuality was interested in both sexes. Though primarily interested in females. Because of a sexual assult, she looses sexual interest in men. Is that because that was normally her predisposition, or because of what transpired?
Here is what I think.
I think there are people who are born with different kinds of sexuality.
I think there are people who have some choices stripped away from them.
I think there are some who just choose their sexuality.
Yes I know some of this is not a popular stance, but I've never been very mainstream. People tend to forget there are many forces at work with people.
Nature.
Nurture.
Self.
Outside forces due to other people
and others.
All factors must be considered for every aspect of a person, not just a few.
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Message received.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 09, 2008 05:35 AM |
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You nurture yourself  ?
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 13, 2008 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
I think there are some who just choose their sexuality.
I know such a guy in person.
The fun part was that he was a homophobe for the majority of his life. He had a lot of problems with girls. No girl wanted to date him cuz he was rather ugly, although intelligent and fun. He tried many times and failed all the time.
He used to watch some gay anime (not yaoi, just some gay romance iirc, dunno, don't watch those myself ). As he lated told me, gay romances impressed him. Within a year he has become gay. He has a boyfriend now. He used to say women still interest him, but the interest in women diminished over time and now he's 100% gay afaik.
An interesting methamorphosis, I'd say. From homophobe to full homosexual.. That's why I no longer believe people are born with certain sexuality. Well, maybe the majority is, but some just choose it.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted June 13, 2008 04:33 PM |
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Quote:
An interesting methamorphosis, I'd say. From homophobe to full homosexual.. That's why I no longer believe people are born with certain sexuality. Well, maybe the majority is, but some just choose it.
He very well might have been gay all along, but he had to suppress it all so hard because your society is very intolerant of gays. That leads easily to homofobia - you are scared of your own thoughts.
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