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| Thread: Lord of the flies |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 25, 2003 07:30 AM |
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Lord of the flies
I know most of you red or saw it. I just watched it on TV.
It's a mystery to me, if it was a test from the boot camp order. (missed the beggining)
They drop kids off, or the kids crash.
They listen to the person who calls for organization, and order.
But then, the chaotic blonde, already evil himself, began to grow illusional. With his grow for fun, and what he thinks is real enough, he drew followers (of young age of course) and then fear or young pride grew in the rest.
The one who stood up, to the wrong, the one who said the right thing, was killed by a foolish rock.
What else can really be said? Besides the ending.
and the fact that the wrong side, literaly took to game, on the other ones who tried, and did make the right decisions. The rest either died, or converted.
sad movie, but it says alot.
What other stuff did i miss?
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted October 25, 2003 01:07 PM |
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 25, 2003 06:45 PM |
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One of my least favorite books. So pessimistic it’s not even funny. The guy is basically saying that humans are violent by nature, and that all the wars that we had are because of our human nature. What does this mean? That there will never be peaces? That there is no point trying to end war because war is in our nature and cannot be changed?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 26, 2003 12:15 AM |
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i didnt preciev that, but i only watched the movie.
I precieved it more as the indepthness of peer pressure. Another thing is, if the survivor on the right side wasnt in charge, i'd be willing to bet he would've ocnverted too.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 26, 2003 12:23 AM |
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It's not a long book (although, as Woock's link shows, it can be made shorter!  ), and it sounds like you didn't miss anything major in the movie, Celfious.
My brothers attend(ed) an all-male military high school. They both took Lord of the Flies as commentary on teenage boys in particular, not humanity in general. And they both said that it nailed teenage-boy culture right on.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 26, 2003 12:29 AM |
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Quote:
My brothers attend(ed) an all-male military high school. They both took Lord of the Flies as commentary on teenage boys in particular, not humanity in general. And they both said that it nailed teenage-boy culture right on.
That would have been nice, if the children in the book were teenagers. I am not sure about the exact ages, but I think that the oldest one was around 14, while some were a lot younger. Another indication that the book was written about human culture and not only that of teenagers is the fact that in the beginning the children were still civilized but only turned to savages later on. This shows that their society was fine before, but slowly their human nature broke free.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 26, 2003 12:35 AM |
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Quote:
That would have been nice, if the children in the book were teenagers. I am not sure about the exact ages, but I think that the oldest one was around 14, while some were a lot younger. Another indication that the book was written about human culture and not only that of teenagers is the fact that in the beginning the children were still civilized but only turned to savages later on. This shows that their society was fine before, but slowly their human nature broke free.
Oh, I realise that the book can be expanded to say all sorts of things -- that's why it's a classic. The teenage (or preteen) boy theory is just for those of us who want to preserve our faith in humanity.
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Cleverly
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2003 01:35 AM |
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Quote:
One of my least favorite books. So pessimistic it’s not even funny. The guy is basically saying that humans are violent by nature, and that all the wars that we had are because of our human nature. What does this mean? That there will never be peaces? That there is no point trying to end war because war is in our nature and cannot be changed?
WHAT!!!
How can u say that?
I read the book and saw the movie shortly after that...
is one of mah favorite books!!!
it shows what happens to ppl if u toss them on an isolated island...
I think it was a great story!
tho I liked the book a lil better than the movie...
more about the actual 'lord of the flies' thing and the thing with the monster was also better in the book...
humans violent?well,aren't they?I mean,ppl do fight for pleasure!in Ancient Roma they had the colosseum...
today we have the TV...but if u take out the tv and things,u get 'lord of the flies'...simple as that...
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 26, 2003 01:41 AM |
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if the book was written with sensible 20 year olds, or even 17 yo's.. the same thing prolly wouldntve happened.
like when I was 14 and younger, I used to like to play in the woods. If we were stuck on an island, with no logical ability of return, and we were acting like ppl carving spears, and becoming affiliated with death.. I dunnoo if I'd join it, when I was that age.
And when the kids, saw the others, having fun (forexample when the spear hunters came screaming and the twins were playin tic tac toe) then meat, well.. peer presure, illusion, ect, this dosnt happen to man kind anywhere as much as little kids.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2003 02:15 AM |
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I believe a human can break at such a time...
I mean,anyone can snap and turn into a twisted bastard if there is no connection to civilization...
most of the cheeldren there were young children...
6-8yrs old...
only 2 of them were older...
and all the little children,who are very easy to manipulate,followed the bigger boys...
like,I have a 3yr old brother,when he saw us do sumthin,hes follow us and immediatly do the same,because he wanted to be just like us...
the same thing happens in 'lord of the flies'...
the older boys are like parents to the little ones...
and when the little ones saw Jack(i think that was his name) kill things,they wanted to kill things too...
they didn't want to follow Ralph(I think that was the other guy) and build up the fire,because that meant work and no fun...and thas what ppl are like...thas what little children are like...
ppl are like that in older age too...ppl choose the easiest solution and do what is more fun and less phisycal...
...simple as that...
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 26, 2003 02:24 AM |
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If that guy with the glasses got killed, you can hardly say that he made the right decision 
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 26, 2003 02:31 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 26 Oct 2003
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Okay, now there'a a goof-off thread (Xbox!) on the Other Side and a serious book discussion in the Volcanic Wastelands. Hell has officially frozen over.
I thought that the kids were basically middle-school age (11-14). A couple were younger and a couple older, but that was the bulk range. Of course, my brothers read the book in middle school as required reading, so that could be affecting my memory of it.  However, it was clear that the boys were at an age when peer acceptance means everything.
Ralph (Piggy?) was the most mature of the group -- he realised that the fire was necessary. I believe that most adults would come to the same conclusion. While there might be some who run around senselessly, they wouldn't be the majority.
There are certainly universal undertones of crowd mentality and all that in the book, but the fact that the stranded group were all boys meant a different dynamic than if the group were, say, adults or even girls of the same age.
Edit: Okay, so Ralph and Piggy are not the same character. It's been a while since I read this book...
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barb
Hired Hero
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posted October 26, 2003 05:04 AM |
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lol funny as
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www.ircnerd.com is funny
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 26, 2003 05:32 AM |
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Quote:
Ralph (Piggy?) was the most mature of the group -- he realised that the fire was necessary. I believe that most adults would come to the same conclusion. While there might be some who run around senselessly, they wouldn't be the majority.
Ralph is portrayed as the most mature, although Piggy was clearly the most intelligent one. I rememeber writing a half-decent essay at some point about how Ralph is not as mature and good hearted as you'd think, and how Jake is not as cruel and heartless as he is portrayed. Too bad I don't remember my actual support for this, or enough of the book to rebuild that support. I do remember, however, feeling quite sorry for Jake at the end of the novel.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2003 05:30 PM |
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well...I'm quite sure it said the boys were mostly 6-8...
the thing that I didn't like is that mah favorite character,Simon was just a simple secondary character...
kinda odd,since IMO Simon had an important part in the book...also,his death seemed a lot more tragic in the book...while in the movie it was just a scary part in the story...
so,on the whole,the book was still a lot better...
now,if the boys would've all been bout 14-16 or older,or they would've been girls the same age as the boys in the book,things would've been different...
for one,they wouldn't have burned half the island or killed eachother...
the idea of the story is quite simple...little boys trying to play adults and take charge over things...
is kinda sad actualy...
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 26, 2003 08:14 PM |
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Quote:
how Ralph is not as mature and good hearted as you'd think, and how Jake is not as cruel and heartless as he is portrayed.
interesting. They were both the bearers of power on the island. If either 1 didnt have that power, then they would've been like the rest.
Imagine if Piggy was the good leader There wouldntve been much of a chance, he'd live on the fat & eat fruit if they didnt kill him. I think if Ralph wasnt 1 in charge, he wouldve been likely to join Jakes side.
If Piggy didnt blow the honch in the middle of the fight
(heh)
then the fight would've ended! AND everyone else would've been watching it, rather than dropping rock on piggy. So BJORN your right!
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 26, 2003 08:20 PM |
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interesting. They were both the bearers of power on the island. If either 1 didnt have that power, then they would've been like the rest.
There we go. Now I remember some of my ideas. I recall the book was written around the beginning of the cold war, and I saw it as somewhat of a reflection about the conflict between the US and USSR (with Ralph being US and Jake being USSR). And I always so it as a bit unjust: Jake was driven to his violent actions because of the way the others treated him, but in the end Ralph is seen as the ultimate good guy even though he proves many times throughout the novel that he is just as cruel. I always thought that if Jake was picked as leader in the beginning, their roles would have been reversed because they are really the same type of character.
Quote:
If Piggy didnt blow the honch in the middle of the fight
then the fight would've ended! AND everyone else would've been watching it, rather than dropping rock on piggy. So BJORN your right!
I'm not sure that that part was in the book.
Btw, isn't it about time to dig this thread out of the wastelands?
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2003 08:36 PM |
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actualy I think if Jack would've been the leader in the 1st place,nuthin like that would've happened!
the only reasons Ralph was chosen leader was that he was the 1st guy that used the horn and he was the oldest!
no one actualy thought if hed be good enuff for a leader...
Jack however already was the leader of the choir and would probably have made a better one anyway...
tho is just mah idea...
one more note tho...
how come no one ever thought about making this thread a year ago when I actualy would've needed some ideas when we had to read this...oh well...
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 27, 2003 12:10 AM |
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actualy I think if Jack would've been the leader in the 1st place,nuthin like that would've happened!
the only reasons Ralph was chosen leader was that he was the 1st guy that used the horn and he was the oldest!
no one actualy thought if hed be good enuff for a leader...
Jack however already was the leader of the choir and would probably have made a better one anyway...
tho is just mah idea...
True dat 
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted October 27, 2003 12:25 AM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 26 Oct 2003
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Happens all the time (the forces of civilization and order fighting against the forces of anarchy and brutality). Usually, civilization wins, but occasionally, civilizations fail and fall. The Roman Empire, for example, was invaded and conquered by a bunch of big, blue-eyed barbarians like Jack. To say that this book applies only to young boys trivializes it, I think. Lord of the Flies is about humanity in times of crisis and the fragility of civilization.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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