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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: QP:s - A taste of heaven or the root of all evil?
Thread: QP:s - A taste of heaven or the root of all evil?
Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted January 09, 2004 05:21 PM bonus applied.

QP:s - A taste of heaven or the root of all evil?

Note: This threads purpose is not to discuss particular bonuses or penalties. Its supposed to be about QP:s (the red stars) in general, whats good about them and if they really bring out something to this messageboard.

Myself i feel ive been here long enough now to have learned alot about QP:s. I have many times been at the center of QP discussions in more particular cases but i dont want this to be one of those.

The point of this thread is to bring up questions about QP:s that IMO should be discussed.

Some of those questions are:

What should it take to get/lose a QP?

Should you be able to earn yourself a bonus/penalty?

Whats the good part about QP:s?

Whats the bad parts?

Should we keep the QP:s?


Here are my thoughts:

What should it take to get/lose a QP?
- I guess this question can be answered by the simpliest of answers if so is the case... "To make an exceptional good post/Not to violate the CoC". But i was going to get at it alittle deeper than that.

It has come to my attention here that all posts are not read by the moderators. And due to that some threads will be missed which can contain really good material or material that should get a penalty.

So i believe that there should be a thread preferbly here in Tribunal section where members can bring up posts in threads which they believe should get looked into. Or they can be brought up in a sticky thread in each forum. Doesnt matter that much IMO, but an incommon place for it might be better so it will be kept at one place and is easier to compare.

Because this will bring up what i believe is most important when having a bonus system like this, and that is consistancy. It will also make it easier for the members because then it will be more clear what deserves a QP and not (what to do to get a penalty is more obvious IMO).

And to make it even easier a place can be made like the "who is online and where" thingy where the last 5-10 bonuses are shown. All of this will IMO make it easier to see the level you need to have to gain a QP.

Should you be able to earn yourself a bonus/penalty?
- IMO this is a tough question because the FAQ says nothing about this. I also dont believe in any "be nice for 30 days and get a QP for it" system. Because then the QP:s shouldnt be namned QP:s anymore..they should be namned GBP (Good Behaviour Points). On the other hand i know of members that have had troubles with a member name, made a new one which had no connection with the first and the mods rewarded his first good post and then he was off to a good start here.

The post itself wasnt any special IMO when it comes to QP material but obviously changed one members posting habit. I also know of another member who changed his posting habits once he started to get rewarded and realized that quality is better than quantity. Today he is a moderator.

Knowing this it is harsh for me to judge out a system like this whereas it has proven succesful. On the other hand it isnt fair to ones that is always nice here and hasnt showed a change in character. And as stated above i dont believe in handing out QP:s just because someone is nice. But a good way to handle this IMO would be to keep encourage members by handing them an easy QP at the start, especially members who has had troubles here. Then when they have gotten off to the nice way a post they make which is QP material can be overlooked. That way this system will keep encouraging people and it wont be unfair to the polite members.

Penalties on the other hand i firmly believe you should be able to earn. To give a penalty to one spam post is harsh, but when they go up in numbers to 10-20 the author IMO have earned one.

Whats the good part about QP:s?
- They are specific for this board.

They make this board unique, i believe thats the best part about the QP:s.

Then a bonus system has its advantages because it can make members more serious, they work as a goal.. something that you want to achieve. So the QP:s does control the members in more then one way here.

Whats the bad parts?
- Speaking from own experience ive been here a long time now and ive been at the center of many QP discussions in more particular cases and ive learnt alot about these QP:s.

Somethings as mentioned above has been good, like for example changing members posting habits.

I also know for a fact here that people has been looking for discussions with me because they have learned that they are usually QP bound. May it be fighting or a regular discussion ive learnt and heard that if you see yourself on the other side from me you have a good chance at getting a QP. Which off course necessarily isnt a bad thing, i dont mind seeing people taking discussions with me if it will end up in a good discussion. Thats is good as it only makes the community better. My problem rather lies in that you choose side because of the possible gain in a fight. A fight which most likely would be better off without that extra participant as it will only be more words before the whole thing settles down.

Even worse i know for a fact that there have been several attempts from certain members to try and trigger me to say something harsh in a fight which would lead me into a penalty.

At times like that i really think the QP system is abused when someone picks up penalties on a secondary account(or first account) in hope to try and get another member to suffer the same.

That i dont like with the QP system, that and all meaningless talk about them..when i log on to this site and see 3 threads in the last 5 like: "Please remove my QP:s", "Why did i lose that QP!?!?" and "Why dont i get any QP:s" i just wanna log back off.

Point is QP:s are IMO too important to some people. It also brings up to many unnecessary discussions. That i also believe is a bad part in this.

And the last bad part that i can think of is that it gives some members "wrong" member status. Take for example if you got 4 red stars you get an "responsible" status. That aint true IMO. Gaining 8 QP:s out of making funny pictures or making 4000 posts isnt responsible in the sense of being responsible IMO. IMO names should be switched to something relative like creative instead or... you could have different statuses depending on the character you are. Meaning the mods give you a title out of 3-4 to choose from, that could be another thing that will encourage members aswell. And it would IMO be more true to the case.

Should we keep the QP:s?
- I believe so. Under the condition that they are given on a consistant and fair basis. I have friends here who have recieved 3 penalties out from nothing more or less to demonstrate that the system isnt as fair as it could be.

But as i hopefully have made you understand with this post i also believe that there are ways to make more out of the QP system and things IMO to improve.


Those are my thoughts on this issue, now i would appreciate if you took the time to answer these questions aswell based on your experience and gave your opinions. The QP is a good thought but can be used alot better IMO, its just up to us to find the ways how it can be used better.

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted January 09, 2004 05:43 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 9 Jan 2004

Well I just gave u one!@

Now be quiet again.

Edit: typo
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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hamsi128
hamsi128


Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
posted January 10, 2004 05:34 PM

aww stefan got 4 red starts we lost another stronghold
chop hexa .... he converted my lovely barmen to a qp hunter

floodprotectiveforever128

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted January 11, 2004 06:05 AM

Note: These are not the rules of the forum, but my opinion of how I think that things should be run for giving QP's.

Quote:
What should it take to get/lose a QP?

To me only the most outstanding of posts should receive QP's. Borderline QP's should not be given. I personally like the system that Djive uses. He gives QP's for poster of the month. This goes beyond mere good behavior and comes down to consistant quality posting. Maybe one particular post wasn't among the best, but the summation of that members discussion was worthy of a QP. This is one of the reasons that The_Hydra has 30 QP's. When you put an entire threads arguement into one thread you're likely to get a QP. However, The_Hydra often puts enough content into a thread that compares to the arguements from multiple members in a thread. But The_Hydra did not simply earn the QP's from making a few good posts here and there. It was from years of consistant effort towards quality posting. This should and will earn QP's.

I have no arguements from you on what penalties should be given. However, I would like to add something. For members that have posted things like f***. I would tell the user to delete this post immediately or be given a penalty rather than immediate action. This is pretty minor offense for a member who consistantly makes good posts.

Quote:
Should you be able to earn yourself a bonus/penalty?

I explained this above. And I say yes. Definately not for good behavior, but for consistant effort towards quality posting. By consistant effort towards quality posting, I mean that the user almost always adds good discussion to threads. This basically means something like a poster of the month.

As for earning penalties, there should be two classes of breaking the rules. First the felony. These are things like insults, posting porn, excessive swearing, etc. Then there are misdemeanors. These are things like an occasional spam post. Everyone does it once in a while in the same way that everyone speeds when they drive. If it becomes a problem then (a) warning(s) will be given and thereafter a penalty until the user changes behavior.

Quote:
What are the good/bad parts about QP's?

Other than having an excessive amount of QP-obsession threads that you mentioned, and a penalty that I received a couple years ago in the thread Code of Conduct, I have actually found there to be no problem with QP's. QP's that are unfair from time to time are better than no QP's at all. This is like saying that the court system is sometimes unfair so we should get rid of it and let chaos rule everything. All in all, QP's are an effective way of oppressing members... I mean... keeping the community in harmony.
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Go Red Sox!

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consis
consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted January 12, 2004 07:01 AM

Red Star Name Suggestions

I would only like to address a single issue in this thread. I would like to offer some possible suggestions for consecutive names given for Red Star advancement.

I think the Red Stars' names should change. I think the names of the Red Stars should reflect the depth of contribution that a HC member has made to the community. This is a community of human beings not children who get the "you are very responsible" response from their parents. Maybe some people are younger than others but that does not detract from a possible good contribution. As it says in the rule/faq contributive posts and threads come in many  different forms. Let's not waste Red Star titles on stating the obvious. Yes responsibility is important but let's give the titles humane reminders of dignity and respect. Here are my ideas for Red Star titles in their advancement.

Two Red Stars: "Community Citizen"(recognizes fair and equal treatment and most importantly....The benefit of the doubt. This says, "We welcome you kindly and you are invited to join us in our community with open arms of basic trust".)

Three Red Stars: "Community Aware"(recognizes the importance of sharing information in a positive light to the entire community so that others can benefit from the shared wisdom)

Four Red Stars: "Enlightened Citizen"(recognizes the importance of the community as a whole and less on the selfishness of an individual. Also recognizes that all people have feelings and this title says the recipient is above all else, considerate and compassionate)

Five Red Stars: "Enlightened Leader"(recognizes that the sorts of posts and threads this person is creating is nothing short of exemplary. This person is clearly a role model and his/her contributions to the community on levels of humanitarian behavior are of great interest when looking to better behave as an individual. Also recognizes that the recipient strives to listen to all points of views expressed with open-mindedness and struggles the hardest to understand.)

Six Red Stars: "HC Ambassador"(the title itself shows the accumulation of the recipient's entire body of contribution to the community. This is a person that represents the best of the community in all aspects. If the Heroes Community were a sovereign nation it could choose one of its ambassadors to negotiate peace treaties as this person holds love and peace highest on their "things-to-do" list.)
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted January 12, 2004 07:24 AM

Don't we already have that?

no red star=Disgraceful

1 red star= Bad Mannered

3 red stars= Promising

4 red stars= Responsible

5 red stars= Honorable

6 red stars= Admirable
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted January 17, 2004 03:03 PM

come on... you dont need an IM invitation from me to express your views in this thread.

Please make your opinions heard, its the only way to improve something if you think it needs improvement around here.

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Dragon_Slayer
Dragon_Slayer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
toss toss toss
posted January 19, 2004 01:38 PM
Edited By: Dragon_Slayer on 19 Jan 2004

Ok Stiven, you want opinions so heres mine.

What should it take to get/lose a QP?
Well as RSF has already said consistantly good posting should earn QP's. In one of The Hydra's threads about interactive landscapes, the hydra didnt get a QP straight away even though it was a great idea. After 5 or so posts with quality arguements with me we both got one.
But i think occasionally in the Tavern or Bards Glade people should get QP's for very funny threads or threads that have had alot of effort into creating them like my Christmas in Axeoth thread.
-QP's should be given when a member directly aims an insult towards another member .eg. Your a real (insert mean word here) or when a member posts porn. Not wussy two girls kissing in bikini porn but hardcore stuff. -QP's should also be given to members who EXCESSIVLY spam.

Should you be able to earn yourself a bonus/penalty?
What do you mean by earn? You need to be a bit more specific here. Do you mean can members give themselves QP's because thats stupid. If you mean can a member go Qp hunting and only make good threads and posts for QP's, not to add to the forum then yes this is acceptable. I mean even though they are QP hunting they are still making good posts which is good. sure you can earn yourself a -QP, just insult a mod

Whats the good part about QP:s?
They make our forum uniqe to others. I am 99% sure that HC is the only forum with a reward system for good posts. Getting QP's make you feel good as well. It makes you feel that people do apreciate the effort you have put in to a post of thread. QP's may also prevent new members from spamming because they start making good posts straight away in order to get enough QP's to become a respected member.

Whats the bad parts?
Well when i first joined HC i felt like i couldn't participate in some threads not only because i didnt know anyone, but also because everyone had alot of red stars. I thought that because i was a new member with no QP's that my posts would be ignored. Of corse i was wrong, HC has a great atmosphere for new members. There could also be competition between members. Say if one member has 4 red stars and the other has only 3, the 3 star member would try continually to get more QP's, which could lead to alot of good posts or spam. Members with alot of QP's may also think that they are better than other members with not as many QP's or new members. This would make HC an uncomfortable place for new members. When members recieve -QP's there may be alot of rebellion towards it. Like when a member i wont name ot a -Qp and made 3-6 threads about getting it back. Not just in one forum but all over the place. This then leads to spam which i a completely different issue.

Quote:
That i dont like with the QP system, that and all meaningless talk about them..when i log on to this site and see 3 threads in the last 5 like: "Please remove my QP:s", "Why did i lose that QP!?!?" and "Why dont i get any QP:s" i just wanna log back off.

Sometimes i feel the same. But i just want to know why people want to get rid of their QP's and why people winge for QP's. Obviously making threads about why dont i get QP's is stupid IMO because it just makes you look desperite and it probably puts you in the mods "bad books"

Quote:
Quote:
My problem rather lies in that you choose side because of the possible gain in a fight. A fight which most likely would be better off without that extra participant as it will only be more words before the whole thing settles down.

Quote:
Even worse i know for a fact that there have been several attempts from certain members to try and trigger me to say something harsh in a fight which would lead me into a penalty.


I have also seen evidence mainly in some of your threads where an quality argument about a certain issue turns into a heated fight about it. In one case that i have seen a member got a -QP because you were both arguing about something, it turned into a fight and that member took the extra step and began to use insults. This is wrong how a great discussion can turn into a fight between two members. Its even worse when a completely uninvolved member tries to join a fight to try and get a QP.

Should we keep the QP:s?
Yes i think we should keep QP's. QP's encourage members to make good posts and not spam and make bad posts because of the fear of losing a QP. QP's should be an aim for new members. That way members begin to make quality posts as soon as they join HC, insted of spaming all over the Taven, Bards Glade and Lands in order to get themselves known. The QP has its downsides but IMO QP's are great and so far have done nothing but add to HC.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted January 20, 2004 06:16 PM

What A Quality Point Does For Me

I'm 28 years old and I only have a highschool education officially. I was in the AirForce for some years and wrote many reports there but during my time in the military none of my work was ever appraised. They like to keep the mindset that everyone is doing their part and no one should be set apart unless the cicumstances were nothing short of heroic. So, unless you are a some kind of war hero your work will largely be counted as performing according to requirements. In highschool I never received an "A" on anything written. I received some A's in Algebra and Geometry but those subjects don't much concern peoples' opinions, in fact it's about as dry of emotion as the Sahara dessert is of water.

Upon joining the Heroes Community was the first time I'd ever been noticed for writing accomplishments. I don't really know what this means for me as a writer but it sure feels good to be recognized. Hopefully this newfound confidence I'm gaining from the Heroes Community will propel me into finishing my book. On the real-life scene I usually sit around and mope or tell myself there's no point to writing it because nobody will even read it. Hopefully that isn't true and I will continue to strive for good posts on my part for myself and the whole community.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted January 20, 2004 07:42 PM
Edited By: Khaelo on 20 Jan 2004

Disclaimer:  I arrived at Heroes Community just after the Dear_Morons fiasco and just before a whole series of vicious debates involving QPs and moderators.  The debates have cooled and the moderators have multiplied, but my impression of QPs (and mod power) is influenced by what I watched as a newbie.  In other words, I still regard the distribution of QPs as more or less arbitrary, depending on the forum, and I accord them no emotional weight whatsoever.

What should it take to get/lose a QP?
The criteria stated in the FAQ seem just fine.

Should you be able to earn yourself a bonus/penalty?
Can you post something really good in the hopes of earning a QP?  Sure.  You've improved the forum, regardless of your motivation for doing so, and this is part of the reason +QPs exist.  Other methods of "earning" QPs, such as outright asking or imitating other people's posts that got QPs, should not be rewarded.

I don't get it with people who try to lose their QPs.  If you don't like the forum, just leave.

Whats the good part about QP:s?
Consis stated the good part of +QPs better than I ever could.

The good part of -QPs is the increase of floodprotect.  This gives mods immediate Troll Control without having to wait for Valeriy to ban the offender.  They can also act as a wake-up call for a more established member who is misbehaving.

Whats the bad parts?
The distribution of QPs is dependant on humans.  Therefore, it's somewhat inconsistent...nature of the beast and all.  People who put too much stock in QPs tend to overreact, and big messes ensue.  This seems to be particularly true of +QPs.

Should we keep the QP:s?
As noted, they make HC unique.  They're one more tool in the mods' box o' tricks.    

Quite frankly, I don't care all that much...I joined with the assumption that I'd never see a QP (or more than a single yellow star ) and that attitude hasn't really changed.  Acknowledgement for a good post is nice, but it means just as much to me -- if not more! -- when another member takes the time to say, "Hey, that's a good point!" as when a mod puts a QP on it.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult

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