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| Thread: Should the city of Warsaw demand recompense for the dameges taken during WWII |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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zonekill
Adventuring Hero
Wiedzmin
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posted February 13, 2004 06:24 PM |
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Poll Question:
Should the city of Warsaw demand recompense for the dameges taken during WWII
Warsaw: the capitol of Poland, probably the most in percent (far over 90%) destroyed cities in the WWII. By Germans of course with a little help of... their friends - Russians.
The damage while Germans token up the city in 1939 were not that big. Also during the "Jewish insurrection" in 1944 nazis destroyed "only" the ghetto, an area of less then 2 square km's. On September the 1st the polish underground army AK, hoping that the Russian, wich were arleady on the other side of the river (Vistula) will help, iniciated the "Warsaw insurrection". The Russians didn't help and Hilter, mad about his approaching end, ordered to raze the city ("Warschau muss glatt rasiert werden"). During the fights 25% of the city area was razed, the rest after the collapse of the insurrection.
Now the warsaw gouvenor plans to demand compensacion from german gouverment to the tune of ~30 billion (30 000 000 000) U$. Probably it will be twice as many. The impeachment will be ready this year.
I'm kinda dumb, I don't know what to think about it. Many questions appear in my mind when I'm thinking of this problem. Will he (the "sheriff of warsaw") do it. Will he be alowed to do it. What consequences will it have if it starts, to the european (world) politics. What if he (or we - the citizens of Warsaw) will win. What if he / we won't. Is it not to late to claim sthg? Who's idea was it in truth. Mayby the Poles want the EU after to be honset with money (Poland is entering the EU in may)? Is it a way the US wants to thank the Poles for their support in last years (finally) and also a repay the disloyal Germans? And and and...
P.S. Don't want to start an racistic topic or let any frustation out of me. Just want to hear opinions.
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The Preacher
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted February 13, 2004 06:44 PM |
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... zonekill's ancestors done the damage ok but why to force pay that damage to zonekill and new generation ? whats the fault of new borned germans in that situation ?
if we start to pay indemnity for 60 years old war, what will usa do for hirosima and nagazaki ? i think polish politicians must think twice because these kind of politic approaches are just increase nationalist and racist ideas in countries... lets forget history 
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Pig
Disgraceful
Known Hero
unstopable
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posted February 13, 2004 07:03 PM |
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No, no and again NO!
What would happen if every country ask for money of each country for compensation? It would be total chaos!
Also : when Poland try to capture Vilnius (betveen WWI and WW2) my grandpa fighted against polands. He carried big pot of soup for comrades, and he was attacked by poland's troops. He got run, and he left all Zupa(soup) for those damn polands. (this was real event, i dont lie). Looks like its time to ask for compensation for that, dont you think so?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted February 13, 2004 07:09 PM |
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Yes, compensation for pig! Get him a pot of soup! 
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted February 13, 2004 07:27 PM |
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One pot of ancient soup, comming right up!
dami ci zupe
i kopa w dupe
i jak sie najesz
to bredzic przestaniesz
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 13, 2004 08:06 PM |
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No, no and hell no. It would raise the spectre of German demands for damage to Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and so on to various allied governments. I doubt the UK could repay on that scale the cost of it's damage to Germany. It would also start a precendt to destroy the German economy when most of Europe's cities called for their share of the money.
Face facts, this happened long ago, virtually every country involved could claim damages, and be forced to pay some also. Chaos would ensue and frankly for petty reasons of guilt and revenge on a subject that matters almost nothing to the majority of those alive today.
Coincidentally, the Russians didn't help in 1944 because their armies were exhausted by the recent offensive and all but out of supplies. The poles refused to notify the Russians of their plans and failed to work with them to design the optimum time to attack the Germans. Basically they ignored the Russian situation and acted without thinking. I don't doubt the Russians didn't want to help, they didn't much like the notion of poles liberating Warsaw, but the fact remains that they couldn't, and no-one in the Polish camp thought to check that first....
The germans sent in SS scum to raze the city, most of the members of such formations that went being former prisoners in pre-war times. The result was slaughter on such a scale that even the Waffen SS commanders nearby called for the return of the formations involved.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted February 13, 2004 08:14 PM |
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Does dupe means what I think it does?
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted February 13, 2004 10:54 PM |
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Yes, Acording to my knowledge.. it does
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted February 13, 2004 11:10 PM |
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Depends what you think it means.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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hritik
Adventuring Hero
Weekly viewer
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posted February 14, 2004 01:49 AM |
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Why ask for compensation when WW2 ended almost 60 years ago.
Isn't that err... old?
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Pig
Disgraceful
Known Hero
unstopable
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posted February 14, 2004 11:28 AM |
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Quote:
One pot of ancient soup, comming right up!
dami ci zupe
i kopa w dupe
i jak sie najesz
to bredzic przestaniesz
Umm, can you translate into the english, woock? Sounds interesting and taste
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zonekill
Adventuring Hero
Wiedzmin
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posted February 14, 2004 12:58 PM |
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60 years seemd not to be long for paying compensation for prisoned workers. It's also not that long for jewish lobby to demand houses, land , manufactures that belonged to jewish communities before WWII.
"We didn't start the fire" so the Germans shouln't even think of any compensations for Hamburg, Dresden etc.
I'm not glad about that whole idea, but your sheriff, a controversial person, will do it. Before 1989 it was not possible to talk about compensation. A simple flower from Willy Brandt is not enough now, when money rules the world.
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The Preacher
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 14, 2004 01:33 PM |
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Quote:
"We didn't start the fire" so the Germans shouln't even think of any compensations for Hamburg, Dresden etc.
Neither did the vast majority of the current generation of Germans, why should they pay for the meglomania of one man and their grandparents' (or whatever) desire to have a powerful, respected Germany again? It's utterly illogical whatever way you look at it. Also whoever started the fire does not excuse the bombings of certain German cities towards the end of WWII that flattened the city with no real military gain. That is inexcusable, why should that go unpunished and the citizens of that city remain uncompensated?
Quote:
60 years seemd not to be long for paying compensation for prisoned workers. It's also not that long for jewish lobby to demand houses, land , manufactures that belonged to jewish communities before WWII.
That's a slightly different issue, the main countries involved in WWII chose to enter the war knowing the consequences, the jews were caught up in the war and events beforehand and had little or no say in their involvement. IMO they deserve any money/goods their relatives left behind when they died in the camps, especially that was kept in swiss accounts. But not land etc.
Without wishing to scaremonger, part of the reason Hitler gained popularity during the pre-war years was the economic slump he pulled Germany out of. Part of the reason Germany was in a slump was the effects of having to pay off her war debts from WWI. Lets not make the same dumb mistake twice...
The whole idea is pathetic, and the poles should be ashamed for thinking of it.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 14, 2005 03:29 AM |
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One Thing Is Certain In My Mind
I was raised a Texan, born in Austin(the capitol). A lot of people don't understand the significance of the Alamo to a Texan. And maybe a lot of people won't understand me now when I make the comparison. The more I read about the Polish people...the more courage and bravery I find I am thinking about... So much courage and so much bravery that I can't possibly fathom the depths of such homeless heroes. And that's what they were too. Their houses, property, children, and culture had been ravaged. I've often considered adding the Polish people of the WWII generation to my Hero thread. When all was lost and their country had been overrun by first the Nazis and then the Soviets they would never give up hope. They would never forget their Polish roots. This is why I have such great respect for Pope John Paul II. I was never so proud of a catholic pope as when he helped free his Poland from the clutches of the Soviet Union. Poland was the first Soviet state to secede and I think it was their example that helped the other Soviet territories to follow suit.
First it was their Warsaw uprising and then John Paul II with freedom from Stalinist/bolshevik/communist rule. I will always have a special love and respect for the Polish people and their legacy. If they have taught me one thing, it is to never give up hope no matter how long it takes. Both they and the people of my Alamo have continued to instill great courage in my own heart. It is from people of this kind that I have learned to be a better person.
To me...it's more about being seen as a "nobody" and then having that change of heart that leads to the history of heroes and beyond.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
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posted May 15, 2005 02:14 PM |
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I think we should only pay the people WORTH paying for. This means all but criminals, pop stars and Lord_Woock get paid.
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"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted May 15, 2005 06:46 PM |
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Edited By: Daddy on 15 May 2005
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Quote:
Neither did the vast majority of the current generation of Germans, why should they pay for the meglomania of one man and their grandparents' (or whatever)
It's more the whatever than the grandparents  My Grandparents went to school when WW2 started (for them - meaning WW2 taking place here in Germany) They sure didn't have a nice childhood - my Granny wrote a little book about her memories about being on tracks and sleeping in corn-fields, hearing the bombs and shots in the night.
But nevertheless I am of your opinion in that matter.
It is completely right that the terror of the Nazis should never be forgotten, BUT todays Germans have nothing to do with that Germany from 1933-1945 anymore.
I think that it's only just if todays Germans could finally get away from this penalty-mentality.
To the Poland/Warsaw issue:
Well, Poland did suffer from Germany and Russia due to this 'Hitler-Stalin alliance' or how to call it.
If I remember history-class correctly, The two of them just more or less(probaply more then less) moved Poland to the east and gave it under Stalins "care" (<- caution! extreme irony!)
But again, here comes the fact that todays Germany does hardly have anything to do wth what happened back in WW2..
I hope, you deal normally with this post, even if I'm German
regards,
Daddy
edit: oh, I just noticed the date of this thread^^ probably the whole thing's allready dealt with?
/edit
@ troggy:
Well, it's not like that, if, the Polish people get the money but the gouvernment. (correct me if I err) - So your post is more sensless than it would be anyways
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 16, 2005 05:34 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 15 May 2005
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I Agree Completely
Quote:
Today's Germans have nothing to do with that Germany from 1933-1945 anymore.
I could not agree more!
Here is a German-born young man who speaks the language; was raised on the land; brought up around other German-born people; and probably has a strong sense of pride in his own nationality. And I think he has every right to be proud. He speaks nothing of Nazism or antisemitism. He is friendly, cultured, intelligent, and equally as human as any other person in the world. There is no connection between the Nazi-Germans of yesterday and this German-born man of today. And I would say that 99.99% of Germany reflects this young lad's humane approach to life in much the same way.
It's really quite disturbing you know...when you learn that Nazis do still exist not only in Germany but all around the world. In fact they might even have their largest membership here in the U.S.A. But don't ever let these hating war-mongering antisemitists ruin your view of the country in which they reside. They are a pathetic minority looking for attention and power through fear and hatred of other human beings.
Today's Germany is a great nation with a rich history and very talented artisans, scientists, doctors, culinary masters, athletes, and leaders. They are a country of great pride and with good reason. In all of the humanity they represent a very interesting and beautiful facet to the gem of life. Their contribution to the evolution of humanity is great indeed.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted May 18, 2005 06:31 PM |
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Quote:
There is no connection between the Nazi-Germans of yesterday and this German-born man of today.
Speaking of which:
My sister's German-born boyfriend served in the King's Royal Guard here in Norway last year, and one of his fellow Guards kept calling him a Nazi. My sister's boyfriend beat the crap out of that Guard. I guess young Germans today doesn't like being called Germans much. And seriously, who can blame them?
So, to the matter I originally came here to post today.
In the last few days, in connection to the VE Day and the great celebration in Moscow, there's been many demands that the Russians should apologize for the Soviets' behaviour towards the Baltic states after WWII.
Well, to get ahead of events, I would just like to, on behalf of the Norwegian people, apoligize to Asmodean and privatehudson, as representatives of the Irish and the British, for my countrymen's violent and destructive behaviour in your countries in the centuries following the mid-700s. It was wrong of us, and I swear to God that such events will never happen again. If you'd like some kind of economic compensation, just IM me, and we can arrange that.
Since I have Swedish relatives as well, I'd also like to apologise to grek_god:superman, Woock, Lich, and any Russian HC'ers, for all the pains my ancestors have brought to your people.
Now that, when that's taken care of, I eagerly expect apologies from ReadDeal for his people's treatment of Norway during the "union" from 1389 to 1814. I also expect to hear apologetic words from Sir_Stiven, for the Swedish rule over Norway from 1814 to 1905, and from Daddy and angelito, for the German occupation of Norway during WWII.
EDIT: I suddenly remembered that I'd also like an apology from any British, preferably English, posters, for the suffering that was inflicted upon my people by their blockade of Norway during the Napoleonic War.
With regards from a meek and expectant Terje.
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted May 19, 2005 09:01 PM |
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Quote:
If I remember history-class correctly, The two of them just more or less(probaply more then less) moved Poland to the east and gave it under Stalins "care" (<- caution! extreme irony!)
Actually, they intended to take over all of Poland, and the new German-Soviet border was to go along the rivers Wisła (eng. Vistula), Narew and San. After the war and in accordance to the Yaltan decisions, however, Poland was more or less moved to the west and became a communist nation, which considerably increased Stalin's area of control.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 19, 2005 09:01 PM |
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I have viking ancestry, in all likelyhood I'd have to repay and appologise to myself
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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